An interesting topic

120_Minutes

I've noticed how crap the topics on this forum have become (whats this song ? it goes doo de doo dooo dooo, who did u snog at the pub crawl, do you like stuff? i like stuff etc etc) so in the interest of healthy debate i'm putting a link to an article written by one Steve Albini, (i'm sure you know who HE is!) which i urge any musician or interested party to read, i'd like to start a good debate bout this so off you go.......could the likes of Turn or Brando et al become a record company's next statistic??

*shudder*

How record companies screw bands

I await your replies

johnnynolegs

this is actually incrediby interesting - the only point i would have to make about it is that if u are gonna be a really successful band u r gonna sell more than a 1/4 of a million anyway so u would make more money but it is a good article and i thank u for it

thedrowner

too long, lost interest, put it in bullet points for me

whos steve albini

and the topics have not 'gone crap' if u think they have theyre clearly labelled so u can just skip over them. the pub crawl banter that went on used to make me laugh so hard (of course im talking about the stuff i wasnt involved in) and that all for the spirit of phantom

johnnynolegs

good point rosemary well done - whoops i think we r ruining the point of this thread by making it another pointless one hehehehe

DerekD Goldfish

Extremly interesting just proves how much of a joke the music industry has become

thedrowner

i DID have a point, i asked who steve albini was and i asked someone to put the link into bullet points for me....

johnnynolegs

well done

BEHOLD!

Steve Albini is a man.
A man who really couldnt give much of a **** about anything really.
to be honest...im surprised you dont know who he is...since so many plonker dublin bands went to record with him after the frames did.

but he makes a realistic point....its quite an old article at this stage.

biZrb

Steve Albini produced Nirvanna's last album and Berkerly's EP and a whole load of others that i cant think of right now.He also recorded and produced the latest Breeders ablulm. I think he plays guitar in a band that i dont know the name of, basically hes heavly invloved in the music industy.

Thanks 120_Minutes for giving the link to that article it was very interesting. I always had a naive idea about the music industy and could never understand when musican in bands who had albums out and where signed to major lables said they had no money and that article just told me why. Its terrible the way these record companys make so much money out of bands and reward the very people who make the money for them with so little. I know people shouldn't be in band just to make money but it would be nice to see them get what they deserve and make their experience seem worth while, instead of making them work so hard with a little reward at the end. We pay so much for albums/concert tickets t-shrits etc and very little of this money goes to the band but it continues nonetheless as long as there are band willing and wanting to be signed by major labels.

johnnynolegs

of course bands are willing to sign to these major labels - i mean granted the first album doesn't make them that much money but when u get to the second album or third album if you can write good albums and they sell well then you do get ur rewards eventually and get lots of money so it is not like they r being screwed completely. The first album is more of a test drive than anything else...............

thedrowner

yeah, ive still never heard of him. i loved nirvana's last album, but i didnt like the berkerly ep at all, it started off so promising but got so progressively worse. but thats nothing to do with steve albini!

yeah i suppose (if ive taken the right meaning from the article) its kind of like when an insurance company charges u so much money, coz theyre the ones taking the risk, and theyve got to cover themselves. and even though u might not have an accident, other people will and it all has to be covered...it doesnt make it fair though....

its not necessarily about making good albums though, its about making widely selling albums, and some bands may have to compromise their musical direction to keep this up? which is always a bit dangerous.... have u read dream brother, the jeff and tim buckley biography? it gives a great insight into signing labels and record companies.

johnnynolegs

yeah a classic book it has to be said and u r rite drowner it does give really good details..................

the snitch

dear 120 minutes
when you see a post with 'who's steve albini?' why does it surprise you that the discussion on the bulletin boards is all fairly innocuous and frivolous? it may be symptomatic of the posters own taste in music; maybe their lack of knowledge due to factors such as age or influence; maybe due to the fact that they aren't exposed to the music because the radio doesn't play it; maybe due to the fact that dj's don't know diddly about the records they play and don't relay any information about the songs other than the artists name (sometimes not even that, hence you get posts on this very message board asking you sings a particular song); maybe due to the fact that the media (print magazines especially) are copping out of incisive journalism and going increasingly for promotional interviews and review; maybe the fact that some of the journalists in the music press aren't very popular culture literate; maybe the fact that they follow the directives of their editors who in turn follow the orders of media moguls who are the owners of the record labels who need the magazines to sell the records.

it seems more and more ingrained today than ever is that with the sub genreficiation of music this creates specific listenerships, little esoteric groups, the information on bands and avialability of music becomes less accessible and immediate and people get a bit precious about their findings. anyway this leads to concentrated knowledge or interest in certain forms and not others. this may shed light on the 'whos steve albini?' question
and why the threads are so repetative, because it's easier to talk about uncontraversial stuff like how you spend a thursday night than actually stick your neck out and voice an opinion. its' like group affirmation on this board most of the time, all safe and cuddly but there is no harm in arguement or conflict. it seems though that everyone wants to be part of the gang and accepted, no one dares voice a contrary opinion.

i'll stop now

thedrowner

yes. do stop now. I dont think im any the worse off for not knowing who steve albini is, basically if i like certain music ill listen to it and thats pretty much all that matters to me. sometimes i might wish to learn more about the artist and his background and that'll prompt me to buy books such as the jeff/tim buckley one. how is knowing who steve albini is going to influence my musical choices? ive managed fine this far without it.

the snitch

but how do you know whether steve albini (or whoever/ whatever) is going to influence your musical choices unless you take the opportunity to taste it and see? think about how you got into jeff buckley. if someone told you about him without hearing his music first it may have interested you enough to go listen?
asking how steve albini might influence your choice in music is like asking 'would i like bananas' you have to taste it to see

johnnynolegs

this is getting to be a bit silly - i mean what difference does it make whether u know every single fact or not about every type of music , who produced what??? , who engineered what??? - i'll tell u...it makes no difference whatsoever.................

the snitch

you've totally misunderstood me. its not about being a walking encyclopedia of popular music. i've found that knowing who produced what and who influenced who has lead on to finding other bands i may like. like sometimes a particular label a band is signed to like 'kill all rock stars' may lead you on to other stuff on the same label or what have you. same thing with the steve albini issue. thats all, i wasn't being a musical facisti.

thedrowner

someone further up the page said that he had worked with the frames,on the berkerly ep and on nirvana's last album...now i have all those things and ive never heard who stve albini is until yesterday. knowing who someone is and who he's worked with doesnt influence whether i like a certain band or not, i need to hear their stuff to know that.

even when bands mention influences, i dont rush out and buy those, i know some of my favourtie artists have been influenced by bands i hate. sometimes ill come on here and ask someone to describe a certain band, coz theres certain people i know on this board have a similar taste to mine and i'll trust their opinion and take a risk and buy albums, but my judgement on the artist/album isnt formed till ive heard it a good few times. my musical tastes have been formed by hearing alone, and not by knowing whos involved in production etc.

i dont really feel like im missing out, ive got a varied range of favourite artists, if ur going to take that approach to it then i should listen to phantom fm/xfm or the likes 24/7 just in case i miss hearing a song i like that could turn out to be my future favourite band! its too much hard work! im happy working it out the way i do!

johnnynolegs

ah i c i am sorry snitch - i agree with u on that point

thedrowner

Originally posted by the snitch
you've totally misunderstood me. its not about being a walking encyclopedia of popular music.

i know but when i said i didnt know who steve albini was u made offensive comments! So it obviously means something to you

i've found that knowing who produced what and who influenced who has lead on to finding other bands i may like.

yes well fair enough thats ur way of going about things, it doesnt work for me, and i dont see that its anything to be ashamed of! i wont give out to u for ur opinion if u dont give out to me about mine.

the snitch

sorry if i seemed reactionary or offensive. again that was not my intention. i don't think you are any lesser of a person because you don't know who steve albini is, believe it or not. i played devils advocate. i wasn't actually addressing the drowner personally, if you read my original post you see it was a generalisation out from there i guess. it wasn't meant as a personal assault and i actually don't think it reads like that either. i am a music anorak and i suppose my intent was to enthuse rather than disuade. there is such a big world of music out there and the arguemets i was making were to shirk the music industrys promotional fads and favourites in favour of other ways of navigating the sounds that are usually more enlightening. there are OTHER ways of appreciating music and the drowner mentions another (ie trusting the judgement of peers), i wasn't suggesting you all follow theteachings of the snitch....god forbid!

Arch

Well, following on from this discussion...

If anyone wants to hear what the ubiquitous Steve Albini actually sounds like, keep an eye out for the album "1000 Hurts" by his band Shellac.

It's noisy, spontaneous, angular, dark yet funny, indie stuff.

Arch.

thedrowner

i know u werent talking to me personally, it just came accross as very condescending. i see now that wasnt what u were trying to convey, which is grand, we just misunderstood eachother. i know it doesnt read as a personal assault, i just felt your enthusing didnt come accross in the most positive of ways, but i know what ur about now and its all good

there is such a big world of music out there and the arguemets i was making were to shirk the music industrys promotional fads and favourites in favour of other ways of navigating the sounds that are usually more enlightening

good argument. i agree with u there.

dunno if i like the sound of steve albini's stuff...is it available on request at phantom?

johnnynolegs

well y don't u text in and c rosemary???

Arch

Yeap, Shellac are quite distinct. I'd say they are quite capable of either being loved or hated. I wouldn't be a disciple of the Albini sound, but I do love Shellac.

One thing that bothers me about the music industry is the prevalence of this "emperor's new clothes" attitude. People believing that certain producers/mixers/engineers/logo designers/guitars are worth the price of a house in Ballsbridge - it's nonsense. There's a perverse value system at the heart of it, that doesn't tally with normal economics.

It seems like there is no attempt to try and lower costs, once you hit that major level of the industry.

johnnynolegs

excellent point arch - i mean why go out and buy loads of new equipment for a tour just because u have the money to and things like that.................

atonal

That is a great article, I have passed it on to alot of people in the past. Really the situation with the industry is sort of disheartening it is hard to see how anything good can come of it. The industry is in such a bad state right now that it is due for a major upheaval, however the only thing that will get effect change to the current system is active interest from the public in new and different music. Good even great music is out there free of the majors its just that people do not hear it because they do not have it shoved down their throat by heavy media rotation.

It is possible to make record and peoduce great music without the support of a label and without all that much money (a freind of mine just put together a wonderful album with no support at all) the problem is distribution and getting people to hear independent music (i think i am one of the few non family members to have heard this friends cd, and it is wonderful)

I don't see how bands have a choice but to go along with the lables perverse system, while it may be a crappy situation its sort of that or nothing.

bandit

of course 'the drowner' doesnt know who steve albini is from what i can work out she's a women and all they know about is shopping and/ or cleaning........

biZrb

Bandit, i demand you take back that comment! I know who Steve Albini is i was first one to say who he is on this post and im a woman!

From what i can make out The Snitch was trying to say that some times you can find great bands that haven't been promoted on TV, Radio magazines etc. I've often gone in to Road for intance and bought an album because the little discribtion stickers they have on some of the album sounds good, or gone to a gig early to catch the support because sometimes they can be really good too. There is other ways of finding out about great bands than looking at what albums are in the charts or watching MTV. But in saying that the best way to hear about music you like is to listen to them whter it be on MTV the radio or gig, because you know whether you like them or not.

mumblin deaf ro

Steve albini in bullet points:

Record companies are simply loan agencies which give you lots of money that you then owe them out of your cut of the royalties (even if they make a profit on you). I think any band that gets screwed by a record label has only themselves to blame; always read your contract and inform yourself about what it means.

thedrowner

thank u mumblin deaf ro.

and bandit, while u may be right in that i am female, i detest cleaning and hate shopping and therefore know as little about them as possible

and where were u on our mighty pub crawl, eh? all talk, bandit!

i agree with u about the whole contract thing, mumblin deaf ro. this is probably going to be a useless example for u but ive found darius's interviews very entertaining, and he wouldnt sign to cowell's label coz he wanted more freedom. i know there's only so far u can push ur record label and u must conform to a certain degree, but at least u can try get the best deal for yourself. once again, i refer to dream brother, coz of its information.