Ireland V Russia not being show on either Sky sports or Net2 on $ky But Setanta P.P.V

Culchie Boy

Hi,
it has come to my attention, that on next Saturday, Ireland & Russia are playing, so i checked, the E.P.G for to see when it is on and at 3.30 i get the usual "No Listings Availble" so i check Sky Sports to see if it is on, no it is not on sky sports either, But it is on Setanta Sports for £7.99 . this is a disgrace first the F*****g B******S steals the G.A.A from Net2 Thank god the BBC have come to our salvation despit the bad commentry, Now Setanta Butt their big noses into Ireland and steal our Soccer matches from us, this is the biggest disgrace since i dont know when !
Like we pay loads for a tv licence, then extra to $ky to see Rte on $ky then we don't get GAA Or Soccer on Rte on $ky, basicaly Rte should'nt have bothered launching on $ky if the werent going to be allowed broadcast the Gaa or Soccer matches.

Lets not take this in our stride,

Lets take on the Gaa, the Fai, Rte and $ky

I will supply e-mail addresses in my next post,

I am red mad not to see my country plaing on rte on $ky we are paying out the whole time for what,

I thought the fai sold the rights to $ky sports not f*****g Setanta, and i thought that dope of a Bertie had got the rights back for RTE,

don't take this in our stide,

This is English bulling by $ky,

Regards Culchie Boy

DMC

Now, this is new.

Why does it show "Not Available" on Network 2 on Sky? I cant follow that.

Now, dont blame Sky or the FAI on this one. Away fixtures are not within the realm of any deal. Its the Russian FA's match, they can sell the rights to the fixture to whoever they want to.

Culchie Boy

Hi,
oh well that changes thing don't it ? it thought that match was on in Landsdowne Rd. But still it should be shown F.T.A on both $ky and Terrestrial,

E-mail Addresses as promised,

Rte popeb@rte.ie

The Fai info@fai.ie

Sky Digital skydigital@sky.com

The Broadcasting Commision of Ireland N.B the contract given to RTE to broadcast on Sky Said Broadcast on Sky must Mirror those on terestrial T.V (this is not happening they are in breach of contract) E-mail info fo the B.C.I info@bci.ie

The Grab All Assocation, info@gaa.ie

And them upstarts Setanta feedback@setanta.com

Lets let them know that enough is enough,

Regards Culchie Boy

Michael Collins

Well it's on the normal analogue Network 2, so at least we *can* watch it...

http://isis.rte.ie/newtv/SingleChannel.asp?Day=7/9/2002&Channel=36

sceptre

Originally posted by Culchie Boy
basicaly Rte should'nt have bothered launching on $ky if the werent going to be allowed broadcast the Gaa or Soccer matches.

While recognising that i't annoying that the sport isn't on, bettter 99% than 0%

Bard

Surely just because it's not on the EPG a WEEK ahead doesn't mean it's not going to be shown on that channel... ???

Do I detect the whiff of over-reaction here?

trekster

Its happened before the first match of the world cup wasnt in the epg until 1 or 2 days before the match. I'd say they are still talking about rights and dont want to put it in the epg until they're sure. It'll probably turn up on net2.

Mossy Monk

this has got to be a wind up by RTÉ to get some reaction on this board. if Setanta have blocked another Irish sporting event from being shown on RTÉ via Sky i will go ****ing mad. we are paying twice to watch our national broadcaster via satellite and we are being treated like ****. this is gone beyond the joke. emails are being sent off after i log off from this board :mad: :mad:

DMC

I agree with Bard on this one, it is a bit early to call.

Setanta probably have the rights to the game in the UK, but I cant beleive that the wool can be pulled over RTÉ's eyes regarding sport on satellite again, like the GAA problems.

True, RTÉ didnt have the satellite rights for GAA, and Setanta went in to protect what they signed up for, but it is unlikely that this match wont be on Network 2 come Saturday.

E-mail away folks by all means, and see what reaction you get. I'll sit this one out.

freetoair

I heard it might be on Sky One Ireland, can someone cross check the listings for that

Mossy Monk

this game will definately not be on Sky One. Sky only bought the rights to the home games and Setanta have obviously bought the UK rights to this game. why are they putting games on Sky One anyway? it kind of defeats the whole purpose of their sports channels

Michael Collins

Sky agreed to show the first home game on Sky One as a sort of compromise, so the game against Switzerland in October should be shown on Sky One...unless the situation has changed and RTE will be showing them after all.

sayireland

Surely with the GAA, Sky and Setanta have been collating information as to who is buying the PPV item.

People in Britain would be easy to control through the telephone connection. Those without the telephone connection would have to ring Sky anyway. They could easily see what % (if not almost all) are being bought by British residential and commercial customers.

If there was a big % of sales in Ireland it would appear suspicious. I can't see many people paying when they can get the games on terrestial anyway and one conclusion would be that the purchases were being made by Irish cards/boxes outside Ireland. If they were significant and might otherwise be Irish pubs in Britain who would otherwise be paying commercial prices for PPV then its understandable that they would want to block RTE satellite transmissions.

In the end of the day though, the pubs make enough money from the games to be more than able to pay for the purchase. Meanwhile people with Sky Ireland have to do without it.

If giving up the GAA and the FAI matches on Sky Ireland now and again means being able to watch Celtic regularly on PPV then I'm sure lots of people would find it little sacrifice.

DMC

Originally posted by sayireland
....one conclusion would be that the purchases were being made by Irish cards/boxes outside Ireland.

Highly unlikely. They'd be cutting off their nose despite their face.
They would be supreme dumbasses if they did.

sayireland

....one conclusion would be that the purchases were being made by Irish cards/boxes outside Ireland.

---

Highly unlikely. They'd be cutting off their nose despite their face.
They would be supreme dumbasses if they did.




Am I wrong but one doesn't need a telephone connection to order PPV? Pay per view is also activated over the air.

Most if not all the Irish pubs where I am have the games on Premiership Plus as well as the Boxing PPV and some more recently had the GAA and the Celtic friendly and European European tie on Setanta.

I aslo know people in France who perodically order and watch Atletico de Madrid PPV games from a Spanish digital bouquet.


How do the boxes/Sky know where you are if you hide your telephone number when you ring to order, use a UK registered mobile to order or if you get your home based contact to do the job on your behalf?


Am I missing something obvious?

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by sayireland
If giving up the GAA and the FAI matches on Sky Ireland now and again means being able to watch Celtic regularly on PPV then I'm sure lots of people would find it little sacrifice.

i disagree. not everyone wants to see Celtic match's, let alone pay extra for them. all along we are being robbed of the full RTÉ service via satellite

sceptre

Originally posted by sayireland

Am I wrong but one doesn't need a telephone connection to order PPV? Pay per view is also activated over the air.

Pay per view is activated over the air yes, but that means via satellite. Sky don't send a signal to your digibox via the phone line.

I'd guess that these people are just ringing up Sky and getting the PPV event via the phone call (in other words: I ring Sky and say "yes, I'd like to order the "Jumbo Woman Wrestling Sensation, here are my details." Then they send the signal to the digibox using the satellite)

How do the boxes/Sky know where you are if you hide your telephone number when you ring to order, use a UK registered mobile to order or if you get your home based contact to do the job on your behalf?

They don't. And frankly it's none of their damn business. Either method would do fine. It would probably be easy enough to convince Sky that you were on holidays in France ringing on behalf of your brother who was watching the PPV event at home. Might sound a bit sus, but it could happen.

rovingrover

This is disgraceful particularly given RTE's campaign against the F.A.I. and Sky Sports.

Keep bombarding the BCI with complaints.

rovingrover

Having been following this oen up with phone calls and e-mails to RTE, Setanta and Broadcasting Complaints.

Setanta are not offering it to Irish subscribers on a Pay Per View basis. I'm awaiting an answer form them as to whether they are blocking RTE or not. The original line was "we have the UK rights they have the Irish rights"

Interestingly RTE did not say they didn't have the rights to broadcast it. they said they had the terrestiral rights.

There are 2 possible reasons why this gam eis not on RTE

1) Business decision with Setanta to discourage UK people to get an Irish sub.

2) Setanta own the satellite rights and refuse to let RTE show the game.

If Setanta refuse then they should offer the game on a Pay Per View basis to Irish subscribers. I have a young daughter and cannot go to the pub as their rep suggested. Ultimately they're a business and bought the rights.

On the other hand if RTE chose not to show the game as part of a cosy business deal with Setanta then it's an outrage.

DaveH

Hey has anyone emailed, phoned Rte on why its not on satellite??
Dave

philipe

emailed RTE on Tuesday , still no reply

DaveH

I see the albania vs Ireland match is on Sky Sports on April 2, thats in Tirannia and the Scotland vs Ireland is on Sky aswell..That might end up on Irish Tv though.

netwhizkid

Hi,
Did anybody get a reply from any of the e-mail addresses posted by that culchie guy ? I am not happy about the matches not being on rte on sky, but what can i do, This website looks pretty cool, this is my first post, i see from the epg that the sunday game is to be shown on net2 on sky on sunday, fingers crossed that is, well keep e-mailing them anyway,

Regards netwhizkid

rovingrover

e-mailed RTE, just got the standard game is available on terrestrial tv - stick up an aerial. and Setanta, phoned Setanta.

RTE refused to answer the questions after numerous e-mails.

See my note sent to RTE early yesterday afternoon.

Still no reply.
Dear Mr. McCarthy,

I've done some further followup on this and spoken with Setanta in
Ireland and the UK. They have confirmed that they have the UK Satellite
and Closed Circuit rights to the Russia v Ireland game but have no
rights to show the game in the Republic of Ireland and thus cannot sell
the game to me. The person I spoke with in the UK also mentioned that
they've been inundated with calls from Tralee Golf Club to Donegal from
people who wish to purchase the game but they cannot sell it.

Can you please let me know then what rights you have to this game
tomorrow. I'm particularly interested in whether you have the rights to
the game and have chosen not to show it on the digital platform. If you
have chosen not to show the game on Sky Digital then you are
disenfranchising thousands of Irish licence payers and tax payers not to
mention your own advertisers with the only obvious beneficiaries Setanta
Sports (a private company). However I trust there is still time to
reconsider this decision.

If on the other hand you do not have the Digital rights to this game in
Ireland (and nobody else clearly has) can you explain why you chose not
to purchase these.
For example all the world cup games were available on RTE on Sky Digital
so if separate rights exist you clearly purchased them in that case

At best this appears to be gross incompetence.

This is particularly annoying to me having watched and listened to hours
of RTE coverage lambasting the F.A.I.. for selling the rights of the
home football games to Sky.

jrd

I am absolutely seething. The total incompetence of it all. Here's what RTE have done

1. Complain that the FAI sold the home game rights to SKY
2. Buy the away game rights
3. Block away games from ROI Sky cards
4. In doing so, violate the legitmacy of a licence fee
5. Enable Setanta Sports Pay Per View show it on $ky
6. Don't check that Setanta cannot sell it to Irish viewers
7. Deny 300,000 Irish Sky subscribers from seeing the game

I called RTE - helpless lady not aware of what rights exist. She's there simply to record the complaints. I told her before I started that it was a personal attack but I complained strongly for 10 minutes. She mentioned that she suffered a lot of abuse last week for the GAA too. Clearly she has not been briefed by RTE. This is what you will find today when you call up.

I asked for a contact name to complain to - she suggested Niall Cogley, Head of Sport. I will also be writing to the newspapers, and Gerry Ryan to see if anything can be internally in RTE to sort out total muppetry. And they expect support for their stance for their home game problem !

Regards
Joe

irishgeo

The match is now been shown. i turned it over to check the score on teletext and the game was on. The EPG looked hastily updated.

Its was not off at 3.30 as i waited and seen the screen go blue.


I dont me what RTE are playing at but if they can show the match why did not put it in the EPG.

I would never known had a neighbour called around wanting to know the score.

Might be better not seeing considering the first half performance.

Better go and get the sceond half.

Bye

irishgeo

Well the match was on for a while. Just after russia 4th goal they blue screen of death came back to haunt us. I dont know whats going on.

AT 5.54 the blue screen came bacl on. Myabe they didnt like the result of perhaps some technical hitch. But why turn off it so near the ned i mean whats the big deal.

Surely i could have not been a mistake as the EPG data was up.


Please could someone find out what they hell is going on.

The match on being shown was bit like a performance of the irish team patch at best.


Ticket
Tickets now available for the bring back keane bandwagon

DaveH

RTE announced just before the game that "They couldnt show the match on Digital Satellite, because they didnt have the rights to show the match on Satellite, and to watch the match you would have to watch it on analoge." The words of Bill O'Herilly. Anyway t'was a **** match.

Prisoner6409

When I saw the Blue Screen at about 3.30 p.m. on Net2(Sky) I stuck up the bunnies ears to get the match. I soon switched back over to the England-Portugal game it was much better anyway. However I do agree RTE + FAI + Govt have made a total pigs ear over the whole affair.

rovingrover

The game was blue screen until somewhere between the 8th and 24th minute for me.

However this is even more sinister.

Setanta confirmed to me that RTE had the rights.

Who benefitted from this? - clearly Setanta
as they had sold all the ppv rights they would have at this stage.

Now why should RTE grossly inconvenience their
licence payers and their advertisers.

It took me 25 minutes to get through to Sky around kickoff time and I eventually voiced my complaint. This is a godsend for NTL however I
suspect it is more of a case of propping up Setanta than screwing Murdoch.

Time to fight back.

Anybody know Dermot Aherne's e-mail address.

Furthermore C&C and Eircom among others adsvertised during the game. Lets let them know as well. How about a boycott of any company that advertises during an event that RTE refuse to show
on digital yet show on analogue. It was 20,000 euro for a 30 second advert. A few e-mails will
make these companies think twice. I know C&C et al are innocent parties but no point taking to RTE

rovingrover

Dermot Ahern's e-mail address is

dahern@iol.ie (Minister for Communications).

Come on guys get mailing.

netwhizkid

Hi,
I e-mailed the minister today with this e-mail

Dear Minister,
I am writing to you as minister for communications, about the scandoulas disgrace that is rte, my reception on terrestrial is very poor so the only means of recieving rte is via Sky Digital, now back in april or when ever they got the license from the bci to broadcast on sky digital, the licence said that "All Broadcast on Sky Digital must "Mirror Terrestrial broadcast" this isn't happening" all summer rte have compleltly block out all G.a.a matches on sky and to add insult to injury they then block out the Ireland V Russia match on sky, this is not good enough we pay around €107.00 for a tv licence to the state as well as pasying extra to sky digital to view these channels and then we can't see our national sports, i am calling on you to sort it out, as soon as possible,

Lokking forward to your reply,

(Name blanked out for security reasons)

Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it !

I am not expecting a reply he'l popaly just erase it a soon as he reads it, at least i tried !

Regards netwhizkid

rovingrover

Good stuff - the minister will reply. They always do. May not say anything though. :-)

Also complain to the BCI - info@bci.ie

Anybody know if there's an official or unofficial link between RTE and Setanta?

redzer007

read from bottom up:

Sky:

here is the response Ive had form Sky FYI

Thank you for your email,

It would be better to contact RTE or Network 2 on this matter.

Regards,
Sky Enquiries




my mail:

Setanta Sports did not have the Rights to show the Game in Ireland, this fact was confirmed by Setanta, and they were unable to sell the game PPV to Irish BSB customers, To your knowledge is this going to be the case for up coming Irish Away games?


Thx

Red

---

Original Message

---

From: Sturrock, Tom [mailto:Tom.Sturrock@bskyb.com]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: Russia Vs ROI



Thank you for your email regarding Russia Vs ROI,



I understand that on satellite Setanta had the rights to show the game. There would have been a message on Network 2 saying programmes start at approx 6pm.



I hope this clarifies the situation



Regards,

Sky Enquiries

---

Original Message

---

To: viewerr@bskyb.com; popeb@rte.ie; press@rte.ie; technicalservicesfeedbacklivingston@bskyb.com; skydigital@sky.com
Subject: Russia Vs ROI
Importance: High

Hi there,



Can you tell me why the European Cup Qualifier between Russia and Ireland was not available to Irish Sky Viewers on Network2 on Saturday?

Thx

Red



Will post any mail form RTE to follow

R

Lennoxschips

If they put the matches on Sky Digital then all the Irish pubs across Europe would turn on their Irish sky boxes and Setanta would be finished in a flash and I'd have no way of watching matches. I do think Setanta are a bit cheeky nowadays to still be charging pubs outrageous amounts, considering how much cheaper satellite bandwith has become in the digital age.

The reason the World Cup matches weren't scrambled is because those matches were on European terrestrial television, and not Setanta.

Setanta were there for us back in the early nineties when there was no other way of getting matches in Europe. Pity RTE at the time didn't realise the money that could be made from relaying GAA and soccer matches to Europe and the US.

The "I live in the Blasket islands and can't get the match on terrestrial" argument is a good one though. Irish TV license payers who also pay Sky have every right to receive the signal on sattellite. But if they can, then so can the pubs in Europe with Irish registered Sky boxes, and like I said, Setanta would go bankrupt despite having paid for the European rights.

rovingrover

The argument re Setanta is fine however why should RTE prop them up.

You've hit the nail on the head - Setanta would lose out. Instead RTE's licence payers and advertisers lose out. That's why it happened. that's why it went on during the game when Setanta had sold the game to the pubs etc.

Let Setanta worry about pubs pirating the rTE signal. Let them enforce the laws in those countries.

RTE had the rights to the game and in the end showed most of it but their actions supported a 3rd party private company operating in a foreign country to the detriment of their licence payers and advertisers

Lennoxschips

Just out of interest, I noticed in the tv listings in the paper that BBC NI were showing the All-Ireland final yesterday. Was it available on BBC on sky Digital?

ShaneOC

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
Just out of interest, I noticed in the tv listings in the paper that BBC NI were showing the All-Ireland final yesterday. Was it available on BBC on sky Digital?

Worked fine on a regular ROI sub card. Didn't check if it worked for a FTV card.

netwhizkid

Hi,
i didn't get a reply from dermot ahern yet, also good news, on the channels front, as carrols psted in an other page about C4 and Utv coming to the irish epg. i rang sky today, pretended to be a new customer wanting to what channels were availble and the girl left slip, that ch4 was coming to the epg in r.o.i she said she wasn't sure about utv,

i will also e-mail the bci later about the matter,

Regards netwhizkid

netwhizkid

Hi,
got a reply from Dermot Aherns office to-day, not from him, a secretary,
Here it is,

Dear (Name Blanked Out For Security Reasons)

On behalf of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Dermot Ahern, T.D., I wish to acknowledge receipt of your recent correspondence in relation to RTE and Sky Digital.

Your letter is currently receiving attention and we will be back in touch with you shortly.


Yours sincerely

Karen Sheil
Minister's Office

i'll reply when i get another reply from them,

Regards netwhizkid

redzer007

Make of it what you will

Dear Correspondents,

Thank you for your letters regarding above over the last number of days. I am sorry that your enjoyment of the occasion was spoiled but I would like to make a number of points by way of clarification.

As the TV industry develops across new platforms and delivery systems RTE and other broadcasters find themselves with new choices and complications in the process of sports acquisitions.

It has now become common practice for event owners to sell to the large markets (UK, Germany, Italy, France and Spain) before designating broadcasters in the smaller ones like Ireland. In the case of Russia v Ireland the agents spent some considerable time attempting to generate a bidding competition between Sky, BBC Channel Five and Setanta.This is where they expected to earn most of the money.

For whatever reason, Setanta were successful in acquiring UK and World rights to Russia v Ireland exclusively on PPV. A condition of their purchase was that the Digital Satellite rights would not be sold in Ireland because they feared that piracy in the UK would diminish their ability to recoup their investment. A position over which RTE had no influence.

The agent then entered discussions with RTE to sell terrestrial rights only to the Republic of Ireland. We attempted to acquire all rights but the DSat rights were declared "unavailable for purchase". We had to take what was on offer or nothing at all.

I am conscious that RTE might have handled the advance publicity of this better than we did and I accept that the quality of RF reception does not compare to Digital Satellite but we will apply the lessons learnt if, and when, a similar set of circumstances occurs, as it inevitably will. In the case of international soccer it will not be until the end of March next year if we are successful in acquiring Georgia v Ireland and, even then, only if Setanta are the UK rights holders.

Once again, I apologise if you enjoyment was affected but I hope this goes some way towards explaining the situation.

Yours sincerely,

Niall Cogley
Head of Sport, RTE



doesnt sound too promising for future games, the piracy argument seems a little weak, have setanta that much power to be able to dictate policy?

Red

DMC

Fair play Niall Cogley, a clear answer to what happened.

The UK is where the bucks are, Setanta paid the most money and in the end, they got a clause that it was not to be on Digital Satellite for RTÉ.

RTÉ had to take what they were offered, and given that RTÉ has so much coverage with terrestrial or cable, they had to take that.

It all sounds like what happened with that Euro 2000 game against Turkey will happen all over again in the future.

jez

To close this issue could someone say why "some of the Russia v Ireland game" was on RTE on satellite.

Also, is piracy a legitimate reason ?Satellite industry as a whole should insert a clause whereby possible piracy cannot be used as a reason not to be permitted to broadcast their full service because companies such as Setanta get the rights.

Basically, the average guy in the UK just gets a UK box and gets his UK channels. Should RTE and us be penalised just in case people out their manage to bend the rules.
It is now "awkward" for "Joe Soap "to get an Irish box in the UK .
Therefore RTE should be allowed broacast their full service.,If not, SKY should advertise RTE as being a restricted service when advertising.

Tony

Two issues come to mind:

(1) Why did Setanta not sell the game to Irish viewers on satellite.

(2) Placing a restriction like this is surely "restraint of trade" and technically illegal.

Tony

Originally posted by DamoDMC
Fair play Niall Cogley, a clear answer to what happened.

The UK is where the bucks are, Setanta paid the most money and in the end, they got a clause that it was not to be on Digital Satellite for RTÉ.

RTÉ had to take what they were offered, and given that RTÉ has so much coverage with terrestrial or cable, they had to take that.

It all sounds like what happened with that Euro 2000 game against Turkey will happen all over again in the future.

DMC

Originally posted by Tony
(2) Placing a restriction like this is surely "restraint of trade" and technically illegal.

Probably not in Russia though, where the contract was signed.

(Lickle brown envelopes come to mind.....)

irishgeo

got the same reply and surely Setenta is not entitled to do that.A few emails to setenta should sort them out.

Mossy Monk

this is a real shame. it amazes me that a company like Setanta (spit on them) can get away with this. here's hoping someone like Channel 5 or the BBC will wipe the floor with them for all future away games. dirty ****s

rovingrover

Here's my reply


Thank you for your detailed response. I still feel that some questions remain
unanswered.

1) How were you then able to show the game on Sky Digital? I watched the game on
Digital from the 24th minute and it had become available between the 8th &
24th minutes of the match.

2) Can you confirm that you did not enter into any negotiations with Setanta nor
did you agree a deal with them up front? I spoke with Setanta people in Dublin
and London and in particular with Sean in London who appeared very
knowledgeable. It was my understanding from our conversation that Setanta and
RTE jointly entered into negotiations to buy the rights and that you chose or
agreed not to show the game to accomodate Setanta. Furthermore Sean became very
defensive when I questioned as to why RTE would do such a thing. He kept
asking was I a journalist, refused to believe that I wasn't.

3) Setanta were under the impression that they had no rights to Ireland. They
were unable to sell the game on a PPV basis here. Can you explain who then had
the Digital rights for this country?

4) What steps are you taking to ensure this does not happen again eg

a) Designate Digital rights for this country as part of the government's
listings of
sporting events that must be on terrestrial television.
b) Partner with BBC/Channel 5 whoever to ensure that games ar available to
all licence payers.
c) Refuse to accomodate Setanta with commentary other programmes etc.

5) What is the relationship between RTE and Setanta Sport? Setanta appear to
be broadcasting RTE events directly? I trust the payment for these programme is
significant and outweights the loss of having your adverts available to 225,000
Irish Sky Digital subscribers and not to mention the inability of many of those to
view the game on RTE.

Perhaps you could work with the BBC to figure out for example how BBC
Northern Ireland can show the GAA on Irish Sky Digital when you can't and how
BBC Scotland can show Celtic v Rangers games last season on Digital that were
only available on a PPV basis to the rest of the UK (and Ireland).

This issue has generated a lot of passion on the internet message boards. It is
certainly something I feel very strongly about and would hope that this situation
would never arise again. I've already written to the minister outlining my
concerns
and complained to the BCI. I trust you will be working with them and supporting
them to make every effort to ensure that sporting events are available to all
licence payers in the future.

While I would obviously be powerless to protest I would certainly feel offended
also at any company that chose to advertise during a football match that was not
available to me and other Sky Digital subscribers.

Charles Slane

Excellent e-mail !!!

Well thought-out, well reasoned and well written !!

Well done, rovingrover !!

Tony

Originally posted by DamoDMC


Probably not in Russia though, where the contract was signed.

(Lickle brown envelopes come to mind.....)

Does not matter where it was signed if it results in a breach of the law in the country where the goods are traded. You could sign a contract to buy a gun in the states quite legally but as soon as it arrives in this jurisdiction you break the law.

Tony

Tony

Originally posted by Charles Slane
Excellent e-mail !!!

Well thought-out, well reasoned and well written !!

Well done, rovingrover !!

I agree wholeheartedly, good job

Tony