Reclaim the Streets

Turnip

Originally posted by gandalf
READ THE RULES before you post next time. If you post anything else on this forum that wiffs of racism I will ban you from here for good.

Corinthian & Turnip please keep this thread on topic or it will be closed and I may take action against you as well.

Gandalf.

[Edited - Look Turnip try me one more time and I will ban you ok! & edit your sig - stop trying to bait people - Gandalf]

Has anyone read of Myles na gCopaleen's public transport plan by any chance?

Hairy Homer

Apologies for following Corinthian in here but the thread ('sick ****ers') in which he instigated personal insults against members of my family was locked before I could reply.

This is a worthy topic, not deserving of being closed.

I will pursue my vendetta elsewhere.

[You wont pursue any vendettas here Homer, and he didnt start the racial slurs, in fact YOU did, with your first contribution to the thread.

Quote: "And as for that Italian prat. Your boys didn't have too much success trying to er 'civilise' the Africans did they? Something to do with your tanks having four reverse gears and only one forward one, I expect." - Hairy Homer To The Corinthian.

- DeV ]

seamus

Originally posted by bonkey

It boils down to one blindingly simple concept for me : The solution to the broken system is not to put more cars on the road. The solution is to find out how to fix the system, so the cars can be removed.

Apologies, I wasn't very clear in my post. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was more addressing the way Chaos Engine considered buses as a viable alternative at the moment. IMO, you can't criticise people for choosing their cars over buses atm, because our bus system is no match for cars, regardless of traffic problems. It needs a complete overhaul to convince people to use it again, and ditch their cars.

Thought 2 : If I can afford to buy a car, and pay for my insurance on that, there is no reason why I cant rent a share in a car and pay for my insurance on that instead. Given that I'm driving less often, it should be possible for an insurance company to offer some reduced insurances, based on the number of days you drive....or even implement "non-fixed-term" insurance systems - a "Ready To Drive" if you will. Couple this with considerations whereby your insurance type may place restrictions on the car type you can hire, and Roberts the Brother of Your Mother.

Interesting, I never looked at it like that. Simple and effective........

Biffa Bacon

To sum up then:

Reclaim the Streets is an event that involves the holding of cultural and artistic activities on public thoroughfares that have been illegally blocked off to motorised transportation. Its avowed purpose is to raise public perception of the benefits of creating public spaces free from commercial exploitation or private consumption, specifically, the right of access to cars. However, due to ideological aversions to hierarchical leadership structures, it does not propose or endorse any specific measures aimed at creating such public spaces.

In practice, RTS events have not succeeded in engaging the general public. This is partly due to the fact that during their duration they exacerbate traffic congestion, seemingly in contradiction to the common misperception that RTS is aimed at resolving traffic management problems. It is also due (quite ironically, considering that it espouses the reclaiming of public space) to its private and exclusivist nature. There is a clear anti-capitalist philosophy informing the whole movement, which can only alienate the vast majority of the public. Finally, it is based on a self-deluding notion that the general public are opposed to reducing their dependence on the car as a means of transport and must be educated as to the benefits of doing so, when in reality it is poor traffic management and public transport systems that are the root cause of the volume of traffic on our streets.

Given then that RTS will inevitably be ineffective in its aims, is driven by an anti-capitalist agenda and involves the deliberate flouting of laws against which the participants have no stated grievances, it can surely only be viewed as a self-indulgent, self-serving Leftist protest against society and against authority.

DadaKopf

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
To sum up then:

Reclaim the Streets is an event that involves the holding of cultural and artistic activities on public thoroughfares that have been illegally blocked off to motorised transportation. Its avowed purpose is to raise public perception of the benefits of creating public spaces free from commercial exploitation or private consumption, specifically, the right of access to cars.

Correct.

However, due to ideological aversions to hierarchical leadership structures, it does not propose or endorse any specific measures aimed at creating such public spaces.

It's true that RTS is non-hierarchical and it therefore does not present a manifesto that people can either accept or reject - instead, the idea is to remain open-ended and prompt debate.

In practice, RTS events have not succeeded in engaging the general public. This is partly due to the fact that during their duration they exacerbate traffic congestion, seemingly in contradiction to the common misperception that RTS is aimed at resolving traffic management problems. It is also due (quite ironically, considering that it espouses the reclaiming of public space) to its private and exclusivist nature.

You're absolutely right. Not enough work has been put into discussing RTS's problems. I fully endorse RTS's ideals but there certainly is an attitude among protesters that is quite willfully setting up an 'enlightened us' and an 'unenlightened them' scenario. The protesters have to find ways to make RTS more relevant to the public and the public have to start listening.

There is a clear anti-capitalist philosophy informing the whole movement, which can only alienate the vast majority of the public.

It depends on how it's presented, how the issues can be made appealing and relevantto everyone. I am still convinced that the increased levels of protests throughout the world is a clear sign that ideas are changing, and this applies to Ireland. So long as people pay attention to the issues, and not the labels attached to them, I think everyone will find they have at least something in common with RTS.

Finally, it is based on a self-deluding notion that the general public are opposed to reducing their dependence on the car as a means of transport and must be educated as to the benefits of doing so, when in reality it is poor traffic management and public transport systems that are the root cause of the volume of traffic on our streets.

That's a fair point. But it's also a fair point that RTS is in the business of addressing attitudes; the responsibility to make cities better environments rests on both the general public and the politicians/councillors. Change will come with a change in traffic management and transport systems but also in a public willingness to change the way we use cities. On your point of education, this is also the attitude adopted by the DCC's Strategy 2012 - their findings are that the public does need to be educated. Finally, the criticisms ventured by RTSers may be seen as belonging to an area of research that is garnering more interest in political affairs, now.

But you have to ask yourself the question: who is willing to take responsibility? Should we just sit back and wait for politicos to get around to solving our traffic problems or should we get out there and demand it? We should demand it of course, and RTS (as a peaceful protest) has an absolute right to do so. Nevertheless, your criticisms remain intact.

Given then that RTS will inevitably be ineffective in its aims, is driven by an anti-capitalist agenda and involves the deliberate flouting of laws against which the participants have no stated grievances, it can surely only be viewed as a self-indulgent, self-serving Leftist protest against society and against authority.

First of all, how are you measuring success or failure? On the basis of one protest, or a long-term event? RTS operates in the long-term.

RTS is not exclusively 'driven by an anti-capitalist agenda'; as well as dealing with issues of traffic congestion etc., RTS is primarily about spaces of liberty, away from state and commercial control - if this is so, then RTS is not exclusively 'anti-capitalist'. It's about increasing the zone of social liberty and reducing the zone of economic libertarianism. Most people are concerned about their freedom and quality of life though whole societies generally only perceive its profound loss when it's too late.

Is it not fair to consider that there is a group of people in Ireland who are venturing their concerns now, rather than later, before things get much worse? And as for your comment on protesting against authority (and breaking the law), if people obeyed the law, women wouldn't have the vote, Blacks may still be slaves. Progress is made through protest.

FreaK_BrutheR

Right I just read this for the first time...

I just HAVE to say that you, Turnip, are the most detestable type of snob I have had the misfortune of listening to in a long time.

If I met you I would honestly say, going on like that in front of me, I would require restraining, lets put it that way.

Mind your manners you absolute plink plonk.

Obviously this all hallowed Trinity education has taught you not a jot.

gandalf

As people can't seem to stop bickering and sniping at each other and not the topic I am closing this thread. I may open it again if my humour improves.

Gandalf.