Cost of Broadband in other countries

wizard_greece

Yea it's true: she worked for BT in England, then for Eircom in Ireland and now she works for OTE.

Thank you for your support, indeed!

SkepticOne

DSL makes a lot more sense from a purely technical point of view than dial-up. Dial-up is a legacy of backward telco thinking over the last couple of generations. I regard FRIACO as simply the correct and fair way to charge ISPs for access to parts Eircom's PSTN network. This nevertheless has an impact on Eircom's view to broadband.

Hitherto, Eircom's approach to making profits off the internet was simply to get more people on line and for those already online, keep them on a bit longer [*]. In the case of off-peak use of the internet, every extra minute represents clear profit for Eircom since there is very little extra cost incurred for those extra minutes and they have to pay for the network anyway. This is the basis of the 'mouse' ads and why they keep banging on about stimulating demand.

With FRIACO, the situation changes slightly (although not completely). Eircom.net will probably introduce their own flat-rate service. If they do, then there will be no clear relationship between Eircom.net users staying on line and profits. The very heavy users will simply be a drain on their resources and it makes sense to provide them with a more efficient service. It will certainly make more sense to operate DSL as an actual business in its own right rather than a strategic and political measure.

The other option for Eircom would be to let the OLOs and ISPs run retail flat-rate and Eircom themselves would operate FRIACO as a purely wholesale service. In this case, for Eircom, the relationship between people staying online and profits remains to a certain extent because people staying online longer means more capacity has to be bought from Eircom. However, in this case, the OLOs will have the advantage of an enlarged customer base and, because they are not subject to any supposed "arms length" rules can use usage info for targetted marketing. There is a vague possibility that this may encourage them to roll out their own broadband under LLU.

In either case, the relationship between staying online and profits becomes a little less clear. I believe that once FRIACO is in place, there will be a much larger push by OLOs for a better bitstream deal from Eircom.

A campaign group might push for FRIACO if:

a) There does not seem to be any existing broadband momentum and a something needs to be done now. Broadband needs to be part of a longer sustained campaign.

b) There is some (maybe small) interest from OLOs for a FRIACO deal but it needs an extra push from a consumer group.

The campaign group might push for purely broadband if, for example:

a) There is a substantial Government push for broadband but, for example, it is aimed at the wrong sector or caters to vested interests.

b) There are reasons to believe that flat rate is just not feasible and pushing for it is futile.

These are just examples to illustrate the need to be flexible and understand the unique circumstances in the country.

Part of the reason, I think, that IO emphasised flat-rate, at least initially, was because a large proportion of the membership were on off peak flat-rate but were kicked off. They would have gladly switched to another company but without FRIACO, no other company existed providing a similar service.

Anyway, good luck to GreeceOffline in whatever course of action it chooses to take.

[*] also, taking advantage of ignorance of broadband to rebrand ISDN as "hi-speed" and marketing it in a similar way to genuine broadband products in other countries.

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by SkepticOne

The campaign group might push for purely broadband if, for example:

a) There is a substantial Government push for broadband but, for example, it is aimed at the wrong sector or caters to vested interests.

b) There are reasons to believe that flat rate is just not feasible and pushing for it is futile.

c) They look at a calendar and read: Year 2003

d) They look around and see that dsl is rapidly being rolled out at prices of 25 to 45 euros a month from Spain to Finland. Why should they fight for narrowband access at the same pricing level (let us not forget that with dial-up flatrate the line rental price needs to be added to the flat-rate package price)?

Peter

PS.: I am not interested in any old flat-rate dial-up versus dsl confrontation.
There are some valid arguments for FRIACO as a temporary measure.
It needs to be slapped on the incumbent at a very low price: as an "encouragement" for dsl roll-out and for the benefit of those customers who are not in a dsl enabled area.
But otherwise, the times the're changin'.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by eircomtribunal
d) They look around and see that dsl is rapidly being rolled out at prices of 25 to 45 euros a month from Spain to Finland. Why should they fight for narrowband access at the same pricing level (let us not forget that with dial-up flatrate the line rental price needs to be added to the flat-rate package price)?

Why, because you can't import dsl from these countries. Someone paying a fortune in metered bills might not care about what is going on in these other countries. Same might be true for someone who doesn't bother much with the internet due to the annoyance of clock watching.

For example, if I felt there was a chance that we'd be getting widespread dsl for 25 euros over the next few months, then I would agree that the case for flat-rate in Ireland would be very much reduced, even if it did not go away entirely.

BTW, I fully accept the argument that DSL is a more modern way of accessing the Internet. I think it might be a shame, though, if Greece lost out on flat-rate for what might be uncertain prospects for affordable broadband simply because no one was there making the argument.

Beëlzebooze

Just as a comparison to Eircom's DSL offering, here is a website from a Dutch ISP, XS4ALL, they where one of the first ISP in holland to provide punters with net access.

The ooferings can be seen on the following web page:

http://www.xs4all.nl/adsl/index.html

Although it is in dutch, these prices are INC. of VAT, as dutch legislation forbids consumer prices to be quoted excusive of VAT.

The power dsl is quite nice, and I would consider a 150Gb cap, as good as no cap at all. the dl speed is 2-8mbits per second.

price? 119 euro's per month



SHAME ON YOU EIRCOM, SHAME ON YOU!

Ardmore

Originally posted by Beëlzebooze
Just as a comparison to Eircom's DSL offering, here is a website from a Dutch ISP, XS4ALL, they where one of the first ISP in holland to provide punters with net access.
...
The power dsl is quite nice, and I would consider a 150Gb cap, as good as no cap at all. the dl speed is 2-8mbits per second.
price? 119 euro's per month
SHAME ON YOU EIRCOM, SHAME ON YOU!

It should be borne in mind that, despite the government investing billions in getting transatlantic fibre to pass through Ireland, actual bandwidth into Ireland is still expensive, especially compared to what it costs in London, or in Amsterdam. As only a small proption of Irish Internet usage is "in country", most of it has to travel over still expensive links to the UK, the US or Europe. A far greater proportion of UK traffic stays within the UK, simply because there is more content there.

Eircom are robbing us blind in many ways, but they can't give you bandwidth for less than it costs them.

Sovjohn

Hello there,

thanks for all the input about GOFFL

My latest 2 threads are here, feel free to contribute:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78484

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78486

John

Founder/Administrator
GreeceOffline

Ardmore

Originally posted by Ardmore
Eircom are robbing us blind in many ways, but they can't give you bandwidth for less than it costs them.

I should clarify, of course, that it doesn't cost them anything like 3.7c/megabyte. It wouldn't surprise me if it was more like 3.7c/gig!

stormkeeper

http://www.dejazzd.com/access/home/dsl.php

Nice prices for DSL, well, all things considered.

Bronze: 500 Kbps/128 Kbps = $38.95
Silver: 768 Kbps/128 Kbps = $58.95
Gold: 1.5 Mbps/256 Kbps = $88.95

*Had to edit them a bit to make them look easier to read

Deu

What has this got to do with adsl in Ireland?
I checked the site hoping it was someone offering affordable adsl but no mention of Ireland!!!!!


Deu

parasite

the 20 difference between the bronze and silver isn't really worth it ...
wait a minute ........ who cares ?

Dustaz

Maybe we should add flashing lights to the Sticky and the Topic name of this thread

pepsiman

Originally posted by pepsiman
High speed and broadband prices in Norway

Norway's incumbent Telenor have this morning released new prices for their residental ADSL products. Capped ADSL seems to be the future... (prices per month, inc. 24% VAT):

Online ADSL
704kbps down / 128kbps up
1gb cap: €47 (NOK 349)(former "New Online ADSL" at NOK 349)
10gb cap: €60 (NOK 449)

Online ADSL Ekstra
1024/256
30gb cap: €74 (NOK 549)
uncapped: €101 (NOK 749)(former "Online ADSL" at NOK 750)

Exceed cap and speed is throttled, to 64kbps, for the remainder of the month.

Extras for capped products:
Unmetered between 1am and 9am: €7
Pack of 5gb download: €13/pack (must be used within 12 months).

They now also offer ADSL only telephone lines at €8, i.e. no PSTN services, and a [free] download meter (for Windows only) that is synched against a central server every 30 mins, to help customers keep track of their usage.

[Edit: Added 27 February]
One of Telenor's competitors, Tele2, revised their ADSL prices last week. They undercut Telenor's prices by €1.27 (NOK 10) AND have no caps. (No-one of Telenor's competitors have introduced caps (yet).)

Prices per month, inc. 24% VAT:

Medium
704kbps down / 128kbps up
€43 (NOK 339)

Large
1024kbps down /256kbps up
€68 (NOK 539)

Add €6.50 (NOK 50) if you want a telephone line for ADSL only (i.e. no PSTN/ISDN services).

ADSL installation (once-off charges):
€258 (NOK 1.995)
DIY: €129 (NOK 995)

Installation includes security pack (firewall, anti-virus) and all equipment except network card. Service available in 24 of the major cities and towns.

[/Edit]

/Thomas

Dustaz

wow, that seems like quite a forward thinking incumbant telco. Prices and caps seem pretty fair.

IrkkuSuomessa

Prices in Tampere, Finland. No caps. Once off opening fees, which can sometimes vary depending on limited offers.

Company ____ down/up _____ €/mon ____ (opening fee)
WLAN Net __ 1024/1024 ____ 29.90 ____ 39.00
Sonera ______ 1024/512 ____ 49.00 ____ 50.00-90.00
SoonComms _ 512/128 ____ 41.21 ____ 49.68

WLAN Net is a small local company in Tampere, service like RyanAir: cheap, no frills, usually reliable http://www.wlannet.com/hinnathpna.htm

Sonera is a big mobile provider in Nordic countries. http://www.sonera.fi/CDA.FI.ArticleFrame/0,1362,expandSize%3D2%26expandLevelId%3D823_716_332_%26hierarchyId%3D823,00.html

SoonCooms is part of the old national telecoms company. http://www.soon.fi/template.php?id=tuotteet/henkkoht/internet/kaapelimodeemi

Canadian

1.Price in my Tokyo Hotel Room: FREE

High speed LAN connection in every room - as you would expect of course. I also have a nice LG Flatscreen TV in my room... very civilized. Can't seem to find an Irish breakfast tho...

2.Price in the Apartment I just rented: FREE

Included with the power and heat. Its a basic utility here. I haven't been able to test the speed yet, but they tell me its faster than commercially available DSL (which is 8-12 Mb/s) as we're plugged into some special fibre link.

3.Price in older Apartments: 3,370 Yen/month inluding tax

This is EUR 26.53 and is for 12 Mb/s access. Just one of many providers, but I'm not too clear on what the difference is as I can't read Japanese. (no one seems to offer anything less than 8Mb/s although the Cable company doesn't advertise speed).

The real estate agent looked at me like I had Downs Syndrome when I asked if broadband was available.

On an unrelated note, Guinness is about 6 EUR a pint and I haven't tried it yet.


Canucker

pork99

Originally posted by Canadian
The real estate agent looked at me like I had Downs Syndrome when I asked if broadband was available.

This will also happen in Ireland but for the opposite reason; "Broadband? Wha?"

Ardmore

"SkyNet first to offer access, 80.000 clients interested".

"The slowest connection (192 kbps downstream, 64 kbps upstream) costs about 43 euros a month, with the fastest connection (1Mbit downstream, 526 kbps upstream) available for 332 euros "

http://www.pressetext.com/pte.mc?pte=030224035

davros

This is an extract from today's South China Morning Post (a Hong Kong newspaper) - I'd provide a link but it's subscription only. Note that HK$36 is €4.24. This is not a typo.

New World Telecom expects to shake up Hong Kong's broadband Internet market by offering 12 megabits per second (Mbps) connectivity at a rock-bottom fee of HK$36 a month for unlimited usage - one of the cheapest rates in the world.

Until recently, it provided broadband Internet services only to corporate customers, expanding to provide a 2Mbps broadband service to consumers in January. A bit player, it has ambitions to become a much larger contender in consumer broadband with its new 12Mbps asymmetric digital subscriber line service, called Vitamin.

<snip>

The highest connectivity speed available to Hong Kong residents is 6Mbps, offered by several providers including PCCW, So-net and Pacific Supernet, which charge between HK$328 and HK$398 a month for unlimited usage.

I-Cable's broadband Internet service, which has the second-largest subscriber base after PCCW, charges HK$248 a month for unlimited usage.

According to the Office of the Telecommunications Authority, as of November there were 1.58 million dial-up Internet users in Hong Kong, compared with 969,355 broadband subscribers.

<snip>

Mr Leung said that by using Cisco System's Long Reach Ethernet technology, a true 12Mbps connection for both downstream and upstream was possible even during peak Internet usage times.

<snip>

Mr Leung said he expected the broadband Internet industry in Hong Kong to move toward a model proven in Japan and the United States.

There the operator charged a small fee for broadband Internet subscription, preferring to make most of its revenues by providing distinctive content or Web services that people were willing to buy, such as video-on-demand.

<snip>

"The applications for broadband are starting to become more creative," he said.

PCCW already offers several complementary Web services and content for its Netvigator subscribers, which have seen modest success.

Its "Net See" service, which allowed users to monitor what was happening at their homes using one to four Web cameras, had about 50,000 subscribers, a PCCW spokesman said.

Dinarius

This article from yesterday's Guardian Online is worth reading.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,907951,00.html

A couple of highlights.............

"Take my own recently installed Yahoo connection - a blazing fast 12Mbps for 2,480 yen (£13.00) a month, free for the first eight weeks. In the UK, that would net me a less- than-appealing unmetered 56kbps dialup connection from the likes of Freeserve or BT Openworld. "

........and

".........every flat is fitted with VDSL (Very high bitrate Digital Subscriber Line) at 51.2Mbps. "

Make you want to cry?

D.

Wook

yeps IrelandOFFline , still makes me depressed..

CivilServant

51.2Mbps roughly equates to 6Megabytes per second. FFS!! What's the point in having a hard drive?!

When will Ireland learn?

zynaps

Just because your isp is able to provide you with a link to an internet backbone at 51.2mbps or whatever doesn't mean you would be likely to find many places that could offer you that kinda of speed...
Considering part of esat's fibre network around here is under 50mbps, it's likely that they'd only get that kind of speed connecting to other users nearby, or if their target happens to have a path of high speed infrastructure all the way to it.
Ye know...

It'd be interesting to talk to someone with really high speed net access and ask them what kinda performance they get from it in general

zynaps

CivilServant

I'm sure that building has full access to an internet backbone to support it (it's japan) it might be contended but tbh if you're dling at over 1meg a second who really cares if you're not get full bandwidth.

On your second point, the conversation will go something like "Well you know the difference you see stepping up from dial up to ADSL..."

Dinarius

Who cares whether or not they're getting 50+Mbps??!!

Wouldn't you settle for the 12Mbps for about €20 a month?

I average 40kbps on my dial-up connection, so if I got anything close to 300 times faster for €20, I be very, very happy!

D.

travel_bob

I have to agree with the previous posts regarding adsl in Japan. I currently have Yahoo broadband 12MB service. It is lightening fast and only sets me back 27 euro a month. I am able to download whole movies in under an hr. We have no download linmits in this part of the world!

I live approx 2 hours outside Tokyo, surrounded by rice fields and still can have this service.

I am returning to Ireland to live in the summer and am not looking forward to 3rd world internet service there.

hope there are big changes soon!

CutterIE

I've read a few posts on here comparing ADSL/cable access to the net of that in Ireland to that in the UK, My folks live in town around 13 miles outsite of Nottingham that is slightly larger than Bray that has neither ADSL nor a cable service.

BT refuss to switch on their exchange to ADSL unless 300 people request to subscribe to their ADSL service, the overall service in the UK is no better than here.

Cheers
Will

ZeFrog

Hi all,

I ve been looking at price comparisons between ADSL from EsatBT and Eircom.

I have a concern regarding 'flat rate'.

Esat says: you don t have to worry about how much time you spend on the Web.

Eircom talks about flat rate and then points to a little paragraph saying:

* The monthly fee covers charges for transporting traffic across the Internet within specified monthly limits (download allowance). This excludes fees that may be applied to access sites or additional services eircom may seek to charge for in the future. eircom reserves the right to apply a charge of 3 cent ex. VAT per Megabyte for downloads in excess of specified limits (see individual products for details). The regular monthly telephone line rental and voice charges apply.


Does that mean that Esat is unlimeted usage flat rate and Eircom is flat rate but limited to a couple of Gb ??

---

ooopsss just read the answer in the faqs ...

unlimeted ? noooope:

"You will be entitled to download up to 5 Gigabytes of information in any given month. If you go over this limit then we reserve the right to charge you for any additional downloaded material (at 3cent inc VAT per MB)"

2 pages away from the faqs u can read:
"IOL Broadband offers a flat fee per month. No more watching the clock and counting the time you can afford to spend online. It gives you peace of mind knowing that you can access the Internet any time day or night without worrying about what your bill will be at months end."

Am I mistaking or is there a bit of lying in there ?

Capt'n Midnight

RE: BT refuss to switch on their exchange to ADSL unless 300 people request to subscribe to their ADSL service, the overall service in the UK is no better than here.

Strongly Disagree...

To be fair UK BB is not perfect and rural communities are getting left behind - but if you really need bandwidth can simply pay for multiple modem connections from different ISP - and it would still be way cheaper than any connection here..

300 Subscribers - supprised Eircom did not think of that one 'cos with only 3,000 in the whole country before the price drop they'd only have to install it in about 5 exchanges.

Part of BT's reluctance is the cost of upgrading infrastuture to the exchange and equipment in the exchange and the possibility/probility that (unlike here) someone could offer BB for less and so they would never recoup their investment. ( correct me if I am wrong Bray has 5,000 people - so say 2,000 homes so take an average of 10% take up that is only 200 users )

And the major difference is that in the UK there are options
eg: You can get fixed cost dial up (for quite a while now), which you can combine with a satellite downlink - so anyone who setup Netsystem before the start of the year would have fixed cost internet access, with no download limit. Ok bandwidth is poor during the day ~ 20KB and they have a cap for new subscribers. But you will download a full CD overnight ... something which is still impossible in most of Dublin*


*Dublin is not a small town in the middle of nowhere that has no infrastructure in place already. Eircom (when it was semi-state) went digital before BT & most homes in Dublin have had cable TV for decades. Lucan will soon be the size of Galway and most of it does not have ADSL - even though there is loads of fiber and many major IT centres nearby.

---

Tripkipke

Belgium:

Skynet ADSL

192 kb/s upload
3.3 Mb/s download
15 GB cap a month
50 MB webspace
5 pop3 mailboxes (+ 5 aliasses each)

around 60 euros a month



Telenet CABLE

156 kb/s upload
10 Mb/s download (they will downgrade to 4 Mb/s due to lack of bandwidth)
10 GB cap a month
50 MB webspace
1 pop3 mailbox with 5 aliasses

around 40 euros a month

adsl2fit (my favorite)

check the site, its in dutch but eveybody can read a price list i think

http://www.adsl2fit.be/NL/prijzen.asp

cheapest package is 36 euro a month giving:
4 Mb/s downstream and 256 kb/s upstream
for 60 euros a month you get 8 Mb/s downstream
NO CAPS at all, no ports blocked you can run any type of server you want ect. TOTAL FREEDOM



There are more providers in belgium but those are the 3 best.