UTV Launch Flat-Rate Internet Package

RicardoSmith

Ok what do I need to do if I want to upgrade to ISDN and connect to UTVIP. I've failed the i-stream test a few times and I've been told my line will never qualify. My current 56k is costing me a fortune and so I simply have to go flat rate.

Do I have to get errorcom to upgrade me to ISDN first, then switch to UTVIP? If I switch to UTVIP on a normal line can I get ISDN installed afterwards or am I asking for trouble?

Is there any way of avoiding the excessive charge for the ISDN modem from errorcom?

If I want to connect a couple of machines 2 PC and 1 Mac to the same line what do I need? An ethernet ISDN modem?

I intend using one of the PC's as a server. Whats the best OS to put on the server? (I'm a linux newbie). Would w2k be ok and how would I connect the Mac to that? I know its possible with w2k server. Would XP Pro be better? How about Mandrake 9 or RH8?

Do UTVIP do hosting?

niallb

Hi RicardoSmith,
getting your line upgraded to ISDN has to be done by Eircom as it's their line.

I already had mine upgraded before switching to UTVip, but I don't think it should be a problem.
So long as your number doesn't change, your UTVip account should still be valid.
Worth ordering the upgrade before telling them you're changing over though. You might get it in faster!
ISDN gives you consistent connection speeds, and my download speed is rock steady on 7.2k on one channel 64k ISDN.

You're still paying for your time online though. UTVip has cut over 100 EURO from my last bill, but I'm still paying heavily through the day.
UTV charge an extra tenner to use their UTVip service during the day.
Considering my previous IOL Gold was costing me 16,
it means my 150 hours offpeak are really only costing me 24 EURO a month.
Also during the day it's 0.1 of a cent cheaper a minute than my previous account.

You don't have to order an ISDN modem when you upgrade,
(though I specifically said I didn't want one and they sent one out anyway and tried unsuccesfully to charge me for it.)
The modems available from Peats mentioned in a recent thread should be fine and are less than half the price.

I think you live fairly near me, and if you want a set of Mandrake 9.0 CDs, I can bring a set to Myo's on Friday
- the D15 wireless network group are having an informal meeting early in the evening.

Win2K should be fine on the server so long as your Mac has ethernet and TCP/IP.
You might also find better support for the cheaper ISDN cards under Win2K.

Niall B.

RicardoSmith

Thanks for the info niallb. I'll be using it during peak infrequently, but enough that I'll need to sign up for the peak addition too. I'll PM you about the other stuff.

Urban Weigl

You don't have to wait before getting UTVip, as you can also use it with 56k until your line has been upgraded. Personally, I would recommend getting an ISDN router. I have one from D-Link, which costs 260 sterling new, but I got it for about 60 sterling from eBay. Basically go to www.ebay.co.uk -- and search for "ISDN router". You should be able to get one for under 100 euros, and it is much more convenient than using a PC as a router.

Edit: Here's one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2074008317

Malcolm

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Ok what do I need to do if I want to upgrade to ISDN and connect to UTVIP. I've failed the i-stream test a few times and I've been told my line will never qualify. My current 56k is costing me a fortune and so I simply have to go flat rate.

Do I have to get errorcom to upgrade me to ISDN first, then switch to UTVIP? If I switch to UTVIP on a normal line can I get ISDN installed afterwards or am I asking for trouble?

Do UTVIP do hosting?

Please note for analogue users who upgrade to ISDN eircom remove and cancel all other services on the new line including CPS. Even when you keep the same number they remove the CPS. This can cause problems as the customer and ourselves are not informed and therefore all voice calls and any calls without the 13513 prefix will route to eircom. To try and prevent things like this we have the 13513 prefix included in the number and therefore as long as the CLI is registered with us all the internet calls will be sent to UTV Internet. We need to re-register all numbers after the upgrade to ISDN. To force calls to us simply prefix with 13513 until CPS is activated again.

Yes we do host.

RicardoSmith

Sorry for the dumb ques but, I know what CLI is but what is CPS?

Malcolm

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Sorry for the dumb ques but, I know what CLI is but what is CPS?

CPS - Carrier PreSelect
The UTVip internet service is combined with UTV being changed to your telephone provider. i.e. we will provide your telephone service and bill directly for all calls with the routing completed at a software level in the eircom exchange. Therefore if you use the UTVip service you will only be billed by eircom for line rental. Details are available on www.utvip.com

gandalf

Hmm no reply from UTV yet. I have sent them a mail today ,I'm getting that same error message as last night Error 619: The specified port is not connected. Is this happening to anybody else ?

OS is W2K and I'm on ISDN and everything worked fine until yesterday (I'm guessing the Hardware upgrade does not agree with my setup).

I'm connecting thru Unison at the moment and I fully expect UTV to give me full credit for these calls.

Come on Malcolm your normally fairly prompt.

Gandalf.

sceptre

Originally posted by gandalf
Hmm no reply from UTV yet. I have sent them a mail today ,I'm getting that same error message as last night Error 619: The specified port is not connected. Is this happening to anybody else ?

This thread over on Nets/Comms might be a help.

(er, this is post 1000 btw:D - next person to post (post number 1001) gets to roll the "number of replies" clock over to 1000 which is what people really wanted. I'm a nice poster so I'll let someone else grab the glory)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by sceptre
(er, this is post 1000 btw:D - next person to post (post number 1001) gets to roll the "number of replies" clock over to 1000 which is what people really wanted. I'm a nice poster so I'll let someone else grab the glory)

Cool.

NeoSlicerZ

Damn , I wanted teh 1001 post

dahamsta

Bastards. I wanted to do that.

adam

rob1891

Are we tired of hearing about pings yet, I just ran a little test with ISDN ...

195.218.116.12 is the first IP in any tracert I have ever done whilst connected to UTV.

Ping 195.218.116.12 whilst connected to UTV .....

H:\>ping -t 195.218.116.12

Pinging 195.218.116.12 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=255
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=255

Ping statistics for 195.218.116.12:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 40ms, Maximum = 50ms, Average = 42ms
Control-C
^C

I think it has already been pointed out (ando). There is an improvement here, it used to be ~50ms, now it is down to 42ms, good job .....

So I think, what is the ping to the first IP in a tracert whilst connected to IOL ....

H:\>ping -t 193.203.159.194

Pinging 193.203.159.194 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255
Reply from 193.203.159.194: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=255

Ping statistics for 193.203.159.194:
Packets: Sent = 7, Received = 7, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 21ms
Control-C


Ouch, UTV have some work to do yet! Then I get the crazy idea of pinging UTVs termial server (is that the right word) from the IOL connection ....

H:\>ping -t 195.218.116.12

Pinging 195.218.116.12 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=246
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=246

Ping statistics for 195.218.116.12:
Packets: Sent = 7, Received = 7, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 40ms, Average = 32ms
Control-C
^C



The pings to the terminal server are _quicker_ from IOL! It just goes to show how fast the network is after the initial contact point, and how god awful slow the initial contact point is.

Anyway enough bashing, I just thought it was a crazy comparison you kids might be interested in!

rob

RicardoSmith

I have no idea what all this trace stuff means. Could someone explain it? Is it the path your request takes from your machine through all the routers to the http server that responds with the http response?

sceptre

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
I have no idea what all this trace stuff means. Could someone explain it? Is it the path your request takes from your machine through all the routers to the http server that response with the http response?

Pretty much.

Have a look here. Basically small amounts of data are sent to each successive machine along the route, telling you how long the data took to get there and how many machines (along with their names) it had to pass through on the way.

RicardoSmith

Ok so what can the ISP do to improve times? There was talk of different routings. How can the ISP choose the routings? Is it not a random path?

rob1891

seems you do know what it means!

A trace is made up of many pings all sent to whatever IP you are interested in, but the number of hops they are allowed make is controlled, incremented each time.

So your first ping only ever reaches the machine you access the internet from (I think it's called a terminal server?), the second ping will only reach the next machine down along the route and so on until the target machine is pinged!

Trace Route of www.iol.ie from an IOL connection:


H:\>tracert www.iol.ie

Tracing route to www.iol.ie [194.145.128.36]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 30 ms 30 ms 31 ms ts551.cwt.esat.net [193.203.159.194]
2 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms vlan508.rt507.cwt.esat.net [193.203.159.125]
3 30 ms 20 ms 31 ms vlan56.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.132.17]
4 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms ge0-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.1]
5 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms pos2-2.core001.bmt.esat.net [193.95.131.2]
6 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms vlan2.rt001.bmt.esat.net [193.95.140.3]
7 30 ms 20 ms 30 ms esatfusion-gw.rt001.bmt.esat.net [193.120.57.42]

8 30 ms 30 ms 40 ms ostrich.esatclear.ie [194.145.128.36]

Trace complete.


As you can see there is a ~30ms delay between my machine and the terminal servers at IOL. But after that there is only a <10ms delay between the rest of the machines on the network!

Hope I've made things clear.


edit: I am too slow!

rob1891

The initial contact point is the problem with UTV, it is giving us a delay of 40ms over 20ms, twice as slow compared to IOL.

They have tried to address this with the upgrade to V92, and it has made things a little quicker.

I haven't looked at the topology of the rest of their network cause I aint that smart! sceptre ....

vinnyfitz

RicardoSmith

So what you are looking at is the "difference" in time taken for each ping for each hop.

Must download the traceroute demo and try my own connection.

Thanks for the time and the explanation.

SkepticOne

Looks like there is some strange latency being introduced over Eircom's circuit switched network before it gets to UTV. Maybe they're using special lag boxes like they do with istream.

sceptre

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Must download the traceroute demo and try my own connection.

Jusy FYI - assuming you're using some version of windows, you can do it from the command prompt for free (I'm sure linux has 100s of similar (free) tools).

Just open command prompt/dos window and type
tracert <location>

e.g.
tracert www.iol.ie

Tracing route to www.iol.ie [194.145.128.36]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 121 ms 100 ms 110 ms quar173.esatclear.ie [194.145.128.230]
2 100 ms 120 ms 111 ms hades.esatclear.ie [194.145.128.254]
3 110 ms 120 ms 110 ms ostrich.esatclear.ie [194.145.128.36]

Trace complete.

stormkeeper

this might be going a little off-topic here, but would ping actually be the same, no matter what speed you connect at, ie:L my 26.4k connection, and your average 56k connection?

I pinged the ip address mentioned (through elive, as when i had a normal line, i used to get good download rates with them)

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>ping 195.218.116.12

Pinging 195.218.116.12 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=254ms TTL=243
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=247ms TTL=243
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=212ms TTL=243
Reply from 195.218.116.12: bytes=32 time=206ms TTL=243

Ping statistics for 195.218.116.12:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 206ms, Maximum = 254ms, Average = 229ms

Malcolm

Originally posted by gandalf
Hmm no reply from UTV yet. I have sent them a mail today ,I'm getting that same error message as last night Error 619: The specified port is not connected. Is this happening to anybody else ?

OS is W2K and I'm on ISDN and everything worked fine until yesterday (I'm guessing the Hardware upgrade does not agree with my setup).

I'm connecting thru Unison at the moment and I fully expect UTV to give me full credit for these calls.

Come on Malcolm your normally fairly prompt.

Gandalf.

The problem may be rectified if you download the latest firmware for your ISDN terminal adapter. With the upgrade to new software levels some users have experienced connection problems which have been rectified by updating their firmware.

To answer a previous post all our equipment has now been upgraded to support v.92.

ando

its getting better each day !

Friday 8th November 2002 – Before Firmware upgrade:

C:\>ping clarity.jolt.co.uk

Pinging clarity.jolt.co.uk [195.149.21.11] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=245

Ping statistics for 195.149.21.11:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 70ms, Maximum = 70ms, Average = 70ms


From tonight, after upgrade:

C:\>ping clarity.jolt.co.uk

Pinging clarity.jolt.co.uk [195.149.21.11] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=245
Reply from 195.149.21.11: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=245

Ping statistics for 195.149.21.11:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 50ms, Maximum = 60ms, Average = 57ms


There is a noticable difference and improvement but I taught V92 would not effect Isdn users?

gandalf

Originally posted by Malcolm
The problem may be rectified if you download the latest firmware for your ISDN terminal adapter. With the upgrade to new software levels some users have experienced connection problems which have been rectified by updating their firmware.

Nope Malcolm that has not made a bit of difference.

I have upgraded my Zyxel OMNI.net plus from firmware 4.23 to 4.26 and I am still getting the same error. I have rung the support line but the girl on duty said that you have limited TS on the weekends and could not help me which while understandable is not good enough for me. I will ring tomorrow (Sunday) and try and talk to someone whose name she gave me but at the moment you are making a previously satisfied customer unhappy.

Also it would have been nice to get a reply to the email (#57641) I sent 2 days ago.

I also see you didn't respond to me regarding credit for calls I have had to make thru Unison & Eircom to go online during times I expected your service available to me, can you clarify this please ?

Gandalf.

acous

Originally posted by gandalf
I also see you didn't respond to me regarding credit for calls I have had to make thru Unison & Eircom to go online during times I expected your service available to me, can you clarify this please ?

i'd imagine they have some sort of disclaimer for this in the contract. do the ESB pay you to rent a generator if the power goes out? or do eircon pay you for mobile calls when they mess up your line?

gandalf

Acous I am asking them as a gesture to credit out calls I have had to make because thru no fault of my own they have withdrawn (unintentionally) a service I have paid them in advance for. I am asking them publically for a answer. Do you have a problem with this?

I am also annoyed that the only form of response I have had from UTV was from Malcolm here and that they did not bother to respond to a email I sent asking for help (and I did not say what my username was on boards so they couldn't connect the two).

Gandalf.

flamegrill

Originally posted by gandalf
Acous I am asking them as a gesture to credit out calls I have had to make because thru no fault of my own they have withdrawn (unintentionally) a service I have paid them in advance for. I am asking them publically for a answer. Do you have a problem with this?

Gandalf, the upgrades that took place were only for modem customers, you say that you use ISDN. So im unsure if that could be causing your problems.

Have you tried making a new connection in dialup networking? I know its sounds like it wont make a difference, but try it anyways.

other than that, i'm lost kinda.

I still cant get my dialer in linux to connect, but if i use PPP direct it works fine, which is damn odd

Paul

ando

gandalf, Our company has a lot of problems with Zyxel omni net TA's, their not very reliable. The problem you are having, can you dial up other ISP's?

try switching the modem off and leave it off for at least 30seconds, switch it back on (all while computer is on) and then try again. Also, try dialling your isdn number from an external line or mobile phone, and leave it ringing for about 3 seconds. Then try dialling Utv.

Do you have any other terminal adapter's you could use/try out?

I suspect the problem is at your end and not at utv's