Esat unveil plan to launch true flat rate in first quarter 2003

Dangger

Esat BT unveils plan to introduce Flat Rate Internet Access to Irish
consumers early next year Esat BT today announced that it intends to introduce Flat Rate Internet Access (FRIACO) to Irish consumers from early 2003, subject to the successful conclusion of negotiations with eircom, and the approval of the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation (ODTR).


The key elements of the plan are as follows:

. Esat BT intends to launch its Flat Rate Internet Access service
early in 2003

. The new service will provide un-metered access to the Internet for consumers

. Esat BT is hoping to provide the service for a monthly charge of
€25-€35, which is comparable to rates in the UK, though this is subject to eircom's wholesale price

Bill Murphy, Chief Executive Officer of Esat BT said that the introduction of Flat Rate Internet Access was long overdue. "The message we have been getting loud and clear from industry groups, State agencies, businesses and consumer lobbying groups is that Flat Rate Internet Access is urgently required. This is the key enabler in stimulating Internet usage in Ireland, and to stop us falling further behind our neighbours in Western Europe."

He said that the Internet statistics for July reported by the Nielsen/NetRatings service backed up the Esat BT case. "Internet penetration in Ireland is lagging well behind at just 34% - the third lowest in Europe.

The average time spent online by Irish Internet users is less than four hours per month, well below the European average. What's even more worrying is that less than half the people with Internet access from their homes actually use it when at home."

Mr. Murphy contrasted Ireland's position with that of the UK, where Flat Rate Internet Access was launched in 2000. "Home Internet penetration has now reached 50% and is still growing, with 10 million UK homes having Internet access. The average time spent online per month is close to seven hours - almost double the Irish rate."

Mr. Murphy said that Esat BT was now having constructive discussions with eircom in relation to the provision of wholesale Flat Rate Internet Access, and had also kept the ODTR and the Government fully informed of its plans to introduce the service.

"Based on our discussions with eircom to date, we are confident that we can launch our Flat Rate Internet Access service early next year. We are equally determined that the price must be right to ensure that we have a product and service that will be attractive to consumers. To that end, we believe an approximate price of ?25-35 per month is both fair and appropriate. However,
that is dependent on the level of eircom's wholesale price".
Mr. Murphy said that the current system of charging for Internet access hadclearly not worked and while the rollout of broadband would help the situation in the longer term, it would be many years before Irish consumers had full access to it.

Flat Rate Internet Access is a key migration path to broadband. As long as the meter is ticking, users will limit their time on-line, thus restricting their ability to fully exploit and enjoy what the Internet can deliver. Eliminate that cost uncertainty, and the model changes fundamentally. Users will 'linger on-line' and be more amenable to surfing, shopping, reading, researching etc. but not until we deal with the cost issue"

Dangger

Currently the FRIACO ball is in the Eircom court. The request for a flat-rate wholesale offering was submitted to Eircom someint in early July. Eircom are expected to respond to the two companies in negotiations for a flat rate product in the last week of September.

The most important point of course is how much is Eircom going to look for on a port basis.

As revealed in the Independent last week the two companies in negotiation are Esat BT and Nevada Tele.Com

dahamsta

Jeez, talk about a fluff piece. No disrespect intended Dave.

adam

Dangger

Well I just copied straight from the press release received at the launch. Its stuff we are all familiar with but since this whole area is getting a serious airing in media land lately these announcements are intended to educate people as to why we are at where we are at.

All in all it is encouraging to see a commitall to true flat rate.

Minister Hanafin was also there. She spoke and I have a meeting with her this Thursday at 2:30.

BoneCollector

Currently the FRIACO ball is in the Eircom court

As if it Has ever been any doubt this is where the ball always lay

Dangger

As if it Has ever been any doubt this is where the ball always lay

Of course not, but I mean in the actual laid down rules for engagement for such a product the companies requesting have answered the latest questions posed by Eircom and are awaiting a response. There are set deadlines for a response to be issued. The deadline passes in the last week of September, so the wheels continue to turn.

spongebob

I can see 'Rattus Hibernicus' licking his rear while lazily basking in the faidng autumnal sunset.

You may be sure the Dept of Comms will not take any action if
'Rattus' won't play ball.

Dermot Ahern is **** scared of O'Reilly and the Independent Group generally, far more than Biddy ever was.

M

Dustaz

Ehm folks, unless im severly mistaken this is an enourmous step forward.

Afaik, this is the first time a telco has officially said it is in direct negotiations for FRIACO. The process is officially begun and for the first time theres a degree of transperency. Not only that, but for once the ball is officially in Eircons court.

I guess we'll see in september.

Just to add a note of optimism ...... Watch out Objective 1, your time is near

dahamsta

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical because I'm marginally more informed than the average punter. I'll amend my statement:

Because I'm marginally more informed than the average punter, I see this as a fluff piece put out by Esat to get their name in the press, period.

Fairy Nuff?

I'll agree with Dustaz: of course it's a step forward; of course it's good to see our cause being higlighted; of course it good to see competition, to see telco's and ISP's fighting for business, fighting for customers. But I don't see why I should allow Esat get away with trying to pull the wool over our eyes, with trying to make themselves out as a competitive company all of a sudden. Remember, it was Esat that sat on flat-rate all this time, not filing a complaint with the ODTR. Remember, it was Esat that was the second biggest telco and ISP in the country, but never made an effort to highlight the problems before. Remember.

Esat is a perfect example of the kind of selfish capitalism I abhor. Every item I've seen regarding them in the last few days has been utterly about the company, and not about the consumer as they would have us believe. It's not about competition, it's not about choice, it's not about lower prices, it's about the bottom-line. And ordinarily there'd be nothing wrong with that, but they're trying to sell it as something it's not. They're not doing it for us, they're doing it because they had to: the new products were quite obviously developed solely as a kneejerk to UTV/Nevada; and the leak of information about the products was a disgraceful abuse of trust.

And that carries over to everything I've heard about the company since the Surf NoLimits debacle. In my personal view, Esat are only marginally better than Eircom, and they will not earn my trust until I see them begin to act consistently as a company that is willing to raise customers to the same level of importance as shareholders and employees. All three have an important part to play in a business, all three should be treated with respect, particularly in a market hobbled by monopolies and cartels. But they're not respectful, they're not truthful, they're not honest. They're not deserving of /our/ respect.

Until such time as I start to see an improvement, I'll continue to flame and lart Esat, I'll continue to act as a thorn in their side, I'll continue to remind people of the past, and the present. The only way of buying me off is with the respect I deserved all along. One article ain't gonna do it. Bill Murphy answering questions on our forum would be a start. But he doesn't have the guts.

adam

GUI

dahamsta you the same person who talked ****e about genesiseurope in boards last year?
and Lorenzo made a muppet out of ya?

Same person whos name was in the code on genesiseurope home page?
i think so :-)

dahamsta

Yes to the third question. Have you a point?

adam

MDR

Adam et al.

I try to live by the wisdom of 'Never attribute to malice, that which can be adequetily explained by stupidity'. There is no great conspiracy at ESAT or the DAIL ... there is only er um ... you get the idea ...

ihatemushrooms

damhasta,

never read such rubbish!! couldn`t be arsed arguing with you as your too bitter about being dumped from No limits, just one quick question - which company instigated more customer choice and favourable customer pricing in the Irish consumer telecoms market? Don`t forget Eircom would still be taking the piss if they could. they don`t care about the customer.

As you know more than average punter I`d love to discuss this with you in more detail as I have an above average grasp on the industry myself.

Again I say that the boards, as I understand it, are not a forum for one person to continually attack one company but a forum for discussion. Its great that these steps have been taken today and if you can`t see that its a big jump so be it.

Rags

I think if he got cut off from no limits , he has every right to bitch at esat. They treated their customers like crap. Overusing a no limits service? such bs.

Dr99

If Eircon are forced by this action to release a wholesale FRIACO product, surly it would be available to every ISP, so a certain other ISP (That’s been making a lot of friends here lately!!) could sell their own Flat rate package?

Cheers ESAT, but I think I'll go with the other lot

gurramok

But I don't see why I should allow Esat get away with trying to pull the wool over our eyes, with trying to make themselves out as a competitive company all of a sudden. Remember, it was Esat that sat on flat-rate all this time, not filing a complaint with the ODTR. Remember, it was Esat that was the second biggest telco and ISP in the country, but never made an effort to highlight the problems before. Remember.

Well said !!

Esat and EircoN are the duoploy of the telecoms market, just look at how dsl is being rolled out albeit at a snail's pace.
All of a sudden flat-rate becomes important to Esat since UTV came into the ring(esat press release today). It takes them 2 years to say publicly that they are in negotiations with EircoN for FRIACO, not a single complaint from them about the delay.

I for one will never forget the letter of death i got from them. Can they be ever trusted with any product ?
The consumer oriented Esat that launched nolimits on Oct17th (?)2000 is long dead and gone.

Roll on for UTV for innovation.

Xian

Originally posted by dahamsta
But I don't see why I should allow Esat get away with trying to pull the wool over our eyes, with trying to make themselves out as a competitive company all of a sudden. Remember, it was Esat that sat on flat-rate all this time, not filing a complaint with the ODTR. Remember, it was Esat that was the second biggest telco and ISP in the country, but never made an effort to highlight the problems before. Remember.

There's a cautionary tale here, kids. Something to do with cynicism bred from disillusion. Adam, could you consider the possibility that things may have changed since you were actively involved in campaign. Specifically, could you consider any of the following possible scenarios being possible:

• Bill Murphy taking the helm at Esat with the brief of turning the company around or see it pull out of Ireland.
• Philip Nolan in charge of Eircom having a reportedly more conciliatory attitude to regulation.
• The upcoming nomination of chair of the new Commission and the consequent interest in scoring brownie points.
• Political, industry and consumer pressure finally coming to bear on the industry and the resulting impetus to resolve the issues once and for all.

They're not doing it for us, they're doing it because they had to: the new products were quite obviously developed solely as a kneejerk to UTV/Nevada; and the leak of information about the products was a disgraceful abuse of trust.

Then let the knee jerk, and Eircom's too. It'll show there's some life left in the old mare that is the Irish Internet market yet.

Bill Murphy answering questions on our forum would be a start. But he doesn't have the guts.[/B]

You or I wouldn't have the guts if we were in Bill Murphy's position, considering the sentiments expressed by you and others on this forum. I admire Scott et al coming here to answer questions and how they've modified the T&C as a result. But they are newcomers to the market and therefore have no baggage. Sure enough, the honeymoon will soon end and they will no longer be able to interact with us here because of the (for want of a better word) "open" nature of the boards.

They're not deserving of /our/ respect.

Move on.

segadreamcast

Have to totally agree with Xian on this one...

spongebob

esp..

Political, industry and consumer pressure finally coming to bear on the industry and the resulting impetus to resolve the issues once and for all.

I see many others nowadays singing from the same hymnsheet as the IoffL committee...thank God.

Its called Momentum.

No time any more for platitudes and self delusion that we are an advanced knowledge based economy, it is heads down and finish the job time.

Adam (and the earlier committee members all) are also part of the solution, a very broad coalition of interests is now pushing for what our European competitors already have.

M

oscarBravo

Originally posted by ihatemushrooms
As you know more than average punter I`d love to discuss this with you in more detail as I have an above average grasp on the industry myself.

...but not enough to know how to use apostrophes instead of backquotes [`] ?

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Xian

... could you consider the possibility that things may have changed since you were actively involved in campaign.

You're right, Xian, but I think you are missing the biggest change of all - the marketing onslaught by UTV which IMHO has put both Esat and Eircom 'on the back foot'.

As someone involved in the early meetings with Esat, I have never failed to hide my criticism of Esat, not for what they did but how they did it.

Most people on this forum are overwhelmed by the approach taken by UTV paricularly their involvement in this forum and their amazingly quick response to queries/suggestions.

There is nothing particularly clever about this, it's just an example of extremely good marketing. It really only seems amazing because we are used to being treated like muppets by both Esat and Eircom.

This is not to take anything away from UTV, on the contrary, after 30 years in business, I still never fail to be delightfully surprised when a company actually does things right

Martin Harran

dahamsta

The only thing that has changed /in the public eye/ wrt to Esat is the rollout of flat-rate services, and that's kneejerk in my view; and it looks like damn sneaky kneejerk from the outside looking in. (Not happy with my rhetoric, open your mouth and talk Esat.) DSL? How much slower can they go? I'll repeat my mantra: You're not happy with the Eircom pricing? Good, make some noise about it. (Not happy with my rhetoric, open your mouth and talk Esat.)

Of course, the entire company could have flip-flopped in the meantime, they could be the best company in the world now, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. Not a jot. This isn't about the projected image of press release and promise, it's about reality. Give me evidence and I'll change my mind. But let Esat provide the evidence, let Esat defend itself, don't offend me by being Esat's puppet. Esat is big enough to stand up for itself.

I have no problem with the kneejerk, I have no problem with new services, with cheaper prices, with happier consumers. But I will absolutely not tolerate Esat taking the credit for it. Neither will I tolerate insidious suggestions that this about grudges, that this is about Esat cutting me off. It has nothing to do with that, and the committee knows that better than anyone. It's about lies, it's about disrespect.

Make me the bad guy if you please; tarnish what I've done for IrelandOffline if you wish; but don't offend me by pretending I don't understand. I'll move on when the time is right.

adam

kamobe

Esat Fusion will no longer continue to support this high level of usage of IOL No Limits as it is not in keeping with the spirit of the service and it is affecting the overall quality of the service for all IOL customers. It is with great regret that I inform you of this decision and that your usage falls into this "over-usage" category. Consequently, your IOL NoLimits service will be discontinued on May31st, 2001

Just in case that was slipping into your subconcious......

*shudder*

Xian

Originally posted by DonegalMan
but I think you are missing the biggest change of all - the marketing onslaught by UTV which IMHO has put both Esat and Eircom 'on the back foot'.
Agreed. viz Then let the knee jerk, and Eircom's too. It'll show there's some life left in the old mare that is the Irish Internet market yet.

As someone involved in the early meetings with Esat, I have never failed to hide my criticism of Esat, not for what they did but how they did it.
See below.

Originally posted by dahamsta
The only thing that has changed /in the public eye/ wrt to Esat is the rollout of flat-rate services, and that's kneejerk in my view; and it looks like damn sneaky kneejerk from the outside looking in.
Personally, i don't care how sneaky, how kneejerk it appears, /in the public eye/ some flat-rate services are beginning to be offered, that's all that matters. To put Esat down for doing so is just plain reactionary.

don't offend me by being Esat's puppet.
Ah, de witty repartee that does be goin' on on de boards!

Esat is big enough to stand up for itself.
In case you hadn't noticed, Scott isn't here for our benefit any more than he's here for UTV's. For him it's an instant market survey and he can tailor the product accordingly. Would Esat or Eircom receive the same response if they were here? I think not.

I have no problem with the kneejerk, I have no problem with new services, with cheaper prices, with happier consumers.
Agreed. See above.

But I will absolutely not tolerate Esat taking the credit for it. Neither will I tolerate insidious suggestions that this about grudges, that this is about Esat cutting me off. It has nothing to do with that, and the committee knows that better than anyone. It's about lies, it's about disrespect.
What do you want, Adam? Retribution. Esat tarred and feathered? Is it internet access you want or some kind of revenge for that letter nailed to your door?

Make me the bad guy if you please; tarnish what I've done for IrelandOffline if you wish; but don't offend me by pretending I don't understand. I'll move on when the time is right.
Now someone's in need of some tlc. Me, I'm wet behind the ears on this IO committee stuff. I've done things in the Research Working Group but I'd be the last to take credit for the momentum, the dynamic that has been the catalyst for these services being introduced. That belongs to the old guard. The fact is, though, Adam, that if your not involved daily, you lose touch with the politics going on. That is not a lack of understanding, it's a simple fact of information.

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Xian
...Would Esat or Eircom receive the same response (as UTV) if they were here? I think not.

Actually, I think they would if they did make posts in the same manner as Scott.

Whilst we all get steamed up and rant from time-to-time, the vast majority of people in IOFFl and on this forum have shown a high degree of responsibility and would treat them with respect.

Unfortunatey, I think both Esat and Eircom have spent too long navel gazing to have any hope of catching up with the lead that UTV have established almost overnight.

Martin

nahdoic

Originally posted by DonegalMan

Unfortunatey, I think both Esat and Eircom have spent too long navel gazing to have any hope of catching up with the lead that UTV have established almost overnight.

Sweet, sweet justice imo.

omahaid

I have to agree with Adam, as a newbie here and a long time (1995) internet user,in Ireland at least, I have only seen greed amoung Esat and Eircom, especially Eircom. I have moved voice and data calls to utv for the simple reason that they are cheap and they have'nt scr*wed me yet. Until some one who actually gives a t*ss about Ireland whoeful internet access uses some real political clout in Ireland, all we can hope for is off peak um metered 56k access. Who know's I might be scr*ed again but I will keep moving until I am happy.:rolleyes:

SkepticOne

The next vital stage is FRIACO. What we have now are semi-flat-rate products from both ESAT and UTVi that push the boundaries of profitability given the underlying metered wholesale rate.

While we are having this argument about UTV vs ESAT we need to remember that the main beneficiaries of both these new offerings is Eircom. Because these new offerings (arguably UTV more than ESAT) encourage people to stay online more, the main beneficiaries are Eircom, since they continue to recieve the same amount for wholesale metered calls.

Fair play to UTV for taking on this burden, though and they have been cleverer than ESAT have been in the past by not pretending that it is flat-rate thereby protecting themselves to a certain extent. Both new offerings are advance fee discount schemes.

FRIACO, however, is the real goal. While FRIACO (being a wholesale product) does not guarantee flat-rate, without it there is no chance. In particular, those who want 24/7 flat rate for example better hope that FRIACO appears.

In the meantime, obviously, everyone will go with whatever product suits their needs.

vampyre

That press release was sent to staff in Esat Bt attached to an internal email from Bill Murphy. He specified that he would be talking about FRIACO rather than the hours being increased for netsmart (which I must say are alright now) to force the issue into the public domain and thereby force Eircom's compliance. He wants customers,badly

TomF

Even though Esat say they're going to provide flat-rate after the first of the year, and even though I'm now an Esat and IOL customer, I'm going to opt for the bird-in-the-hand and continue my sign-up with UTVip. There seems to me more straight talk and more action from UTV than from Eircom or Esat or the whole gang of brown envelope dealers here in the Republic.

dahamsta

[ Christian, you've met me what, once, twice? Don't patronise me, you haven't earned the right. ]

The point I'm trying to make is effectively what Martin is saying. Screw Eircom, I don't care about them, they've pushed us all past our limits; but Esat have had the opportunity many times to improve their behaviour, to communicate better with their customers, to provide better services. As far as I'm concerned, they've done none of the above, they're exactly the same company as they were way back when. Why should I deal with them now, when they look the same, when apparently nothing's changed? Why should I stop flaming them now? And why should I let them whore themselves here, to my colleagues, my peers?

More to the point though, why are you defending them? Seriously, why? I'm flaming them, booh-hoo, that's /their/ problem, not yours. Let them deal with it. You think I'm doing this just because they cut me off two years ago? What age do you think I am, seven? Step off and let Esat defend themselves. Again, as Martin has pointed out, if Bill Murphy came on here and acted maturely, the majority of the membership will act maturely. And you can be sure that Dustaz and Sceptre will deal appropriately with anyone that doesn't. Let them handle the debate. If they don't have the guts to step forward, that's their loss.

adam