National Stadium Dead and Buried and 2008 with it?

mike65

The government has announced that it will not seek to fund the Bertie Bowl, in response the GAA has said it will not open up Croker to "Soccer".

A statement from the government suggests they'll be looking to private financing, which sounds like pie in the sky to me (got €300-400 million anyone?).

I never thought the Scotland-Ireland bid was a goer, being at least the third best option after the Scandanavian and Swiss/Austian bids. This would seem to put the last nail in the coffin.

Mike.

Yerac

Especially when you consider our only stadium now is Lansdowne, which is rated so lowly by the bidding team that UEFA won't even be shown it, but this could change after today's announcements.
How does a big Euro2008 game like Ireland-Englnad at Tolka Park, grab everyone?

Augmerson

This would seem to put the last nail in the coffin.

Well Said. What a embarresing affair this has been...

Jake

Cant say I ever had much confidence in the bid being excepted to be honest!
I follow Scottish football closely because of Celtic and have seen exactly what a **** state its in.............. and we are worse again

Legion

As I once heard it described…....”It’s a real fur coat no knickers country we live in”.

Bateman

I like the fur coat no knickers comment, it hits the nail on the head.
As for the sarcastic comment about watching a big international game in Tolka Park, it would not be possible, as Tolka only has entrances and exits on one side, this could never be a goer anyway.

Dalymount Park on the other and has entrances and exits on three sides, the same as Landsdowne Road, and has development potential. Bohs filling a huge Dalymount every week might be a fantasy (can't even get 5,000 these days), but using it for internationals (like was the situation before Charlton's time) is not.

Its just a pity that Bertie couldn't assert his authority with Harney if he so passionately believes in this project. There was an article by Paul Lennon today in the Star basically saying that the stadium does not appeal to PD voters because the support base is middle and upper class, whose leisure persuits are more likely to be Galleries and Concert Halls than sports stadia.

Private Sector funding on the scale needed will simply not be forthcoming in the current climate. Stadium dead. UEFA may as well turn back. Now where did I leave Bernard O Byrne's number?

BuffyBot

The whole thing was a cock-up from start to finish...but I think even Bertie could see that if he built the stadium with public funds at a time of economic cut backs (health,education etc) that even his elastic popularity would snap.

If UEFA have any sense, they'll take it elsewhere.

Hairy Homer

Well thank God they don't have the money to build a stadium in the arsehole of nowhere.

And please God don't let the FAI rebuild Eircom Park.

And as for the IRFU trying to build something at Newlands Cross!!! Rugby weekends are about going on the piss. Where are you going to get a drink in Newland's Bleedin' Cross? The Red Cow Inn?

Do me a favour.

Hold a gun to the GAA's head. Say 'Let us play in Croker or we tax payers want our 60million quid back.'

It's only fair.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Bateman
There was an article by Paul Lennon today in the Star basically saying that the stadium does not appeal to PD voters because the support base is middle and upper class, whose leisure persuits are more likely to be Galleries and Concert Halls than sports stadia.

As a member of the middle classes I'd just like to say that this working class guttersnipe Paul Lennon hasn't a f***ing clue what he's talking about.

Lennoxschips

Hairy Homer hit the nail on the head. (His first post that is)

The GAA are at the moment as we speak trying to squeeze more money out of the government to get Croke Park opened up. I say threaten to take away their funding.

mike65

The GAA are at the moment as we speak trying to squeeze more money out of the government...I say threaten to take away their funding.

Jeeze, it'll be a desperate government that takes on the almighty GAA and thier fusty "anti-foreign games" ways.

Mike.

Sand

Yeah, a wise Irish politician doesnt feck with the GAA.

The "no foreign games"= no fecking money route is appealing though.

Lemming

TBH, I never was fully on the idea of the Berrrrrrtie Bowl given the current climate. During the middle of the 1990s it would have been a good goer, but right now, they can't justify it.

I'm glad that Harney bitch-slapped Bertie over this one (at this moment in time). We have other priorities right now, and giving the current Taoiseach an ego boost is not it.

The reason why Bertie left this project so late was that he knew he wasn't going to be around for too many more years as leader, and wants something that he can point too and say "look what I did".

mike65

Originally posted by Lemming

The reason why Bertie left this project so late was that he knew he wasn't going to be around for too many more years as leader, and wants something that he can point too and say "look what I did".

It always was a vain-glorious project, errorcon park would have done just fine, to think when that idea was first floated the budget was put at around £70-80mill in old money, and 50 of that was comming from J.P. Macmanus!

Mike.

Michael Collins

Jeeze, it'll be a desperate government that takes on the almighty GAA and thier fusty "anti-foreign games" ways.

Grrr. They need to be taken on by somebody though, come on, Ireland playing in Croke Park against some European team is no more foreign than feckin' Neil Diamond or Robbie Williams playing there.

Greenbean

It was enevitable that the GAA were going to take some flak over this, which is simply wrong - and playing into the hands of the government. The GAA created their own pitch, planned to up grade it mid 80's - specifically avoiding any co-operation with the then bankrupt government - raised funds over a long time, created each section a small piece at a time over the next 15 years. Towards the end the government wanted to create a vanity bowl and convinced the FAI to drop their own project of creating a respectable, but not world class, stadium. To keep the GAA onside they starting doling out bigger grants - up until this stage there had been very little money handed out. The GAA used this to speed up the finishing of the pitch; they didn't cry for it - but the government had to do it to stop it from seeming to be biased towards one sport or another (funny enough they didn't give rugby much, must have known they'd be too civilised to complain). Don't forget the FAI had its fill of handouts too.

Foolish of the FAI to trust the government, one that was prepared to write opt-out clauses should the economy falter. Disgraceful of the government to back-out of its word. Lucky for the public that it didn't go ahead. Maybe now the FAI will be a tad wiser and look about creating an adequate 30,000 seater stadium from a mixture of self-funding, private investment and government investment... they sure owe them something now. Though I don't hold out much hope for that, this is the same FAI that didn't think twice about pissing off the government over the SKY deal, at a time when the government was cutting projects left right and centre to try create more money.

The point is the GAA is blameless for taking whatever money the government gives it or how it uses its facilities. It more than holds the high moral ground in this case having owed no-one anything and asked for nothing. Nor will it help trying to force the issue, since the pigheaded stubbornness within the GAA will be at its highest at the moment "let the fVckers build their own stadium from their own funds and see how they'd feel if we try play GAA games 8 times a year on it". Lets be honest, both sports are in direct competition with each other for the talents of youth in Ireland, and there is a history of being anti-"the other side" in both sports. The vote to allow alternative games into croke park will only happen in less contraversial times.

The FAI has badly managed itself and trusted the government to give it what it wants. The GAA won't let other sports be played on it's pitch. Mary Hearney opposed (at least someone did) the Bertie bowl all the way. None of these people are to blame; the only person to blame is Bertie, for pushing ahead with this foolish venture and then leaving the FAI high and dry when it went wrong, and being more than happy for everyone else to take the flak.

Pigman

I would really like to see this (and other) issues topple the government to be honest. It's not that I rate the stability of the country over a national stadium but I am so incensed that the government clearly think so little of their electorate that they were brazen enough as to announce the cancellation of this project (along with their delightfully phrased 'financial adjustments') so soon after winning the election.

It really smacks of 'Haha you peasants! We knew full well the situation before the election but we promised you the moon and they stars anyway! What's more is that in five years time we'll do it all again because you're all too stupid to remember what happened 5 years ago'. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naïve and I realize it takes tactics like this to win elections, but this is really going to far IMHO.

Like everyone else I was impressed by all of Bertie's soundings re Stadium Ireland before the elections but I still made a point of it to vote for every party on the ballot BAR HIS because deep down I knew something like this would happen. I'm glad I did now!

Whilst I’d love to see Ireland play soccer at Croker and whilst I’m certainly not a GAA supporter I’m definitely behind them 100% in their resistance to turning over the countries finest stadium to UEFA for Euro2008. Let us remember Bertie gave the GAA sweeteners in the understanding that they would oppose soccer being played at Headquarters and now as soon as things hit a wall he wants to about-face and go back on his own tactics to get himself out of jail.

This shows you what kind of guy we have running the county and if the GAA can help to finally make him accountable for all his wheeling and dealing then I’ll back them to the hilt!

BKtje

I still believe that the FAI should be allowed to play matches in Croke Park. It's a great stadium.

IM not a GAA fan or nething so excuse my ignorants but what exactly is the pitch being used for when the All Ireland is finished?

mike65

Originally posted by B-K-DzR

..excuse my ignorants but what exactly is the pitch being used for when the All Ireland is finished?

Neil Diamond on Ice?, The Corrs Winter Wonderland?

Answer, absolutly nothing until the following May.

Mike.

CharlieMac

Originally posted by mike65


Neil Diamond on Ice?, The Corrs Winter Wonderland?

Answer, absolutly nothing until the following May.

Mike.

Says it all really.
Simple matter of economics—the alternative to not letting 'foreign games' be played at Croke Park is to build another stadium like it for non GAA people.

The economics of that in a country this size don't work.

So let's get subtle.

Promote the cause of professionalism in the GAA.

When they have to pay their players, they won't have enough dosh to maintain Croke Park.

And then they'll come begging for customers.

Which is only right.

It's a magnificent stadium. Well done lads. But spare us the conceit that you did it all yourselves with no help from anyone.

Bateman

>Promote the cause of professionalism in the GAA.

Getting a bit off topic, but I don't think thats a goer. There do seem to be many players getting restless for a bit of the All ireland cherry, but generally, the GAA has thrived on local passion and local representation, I could not ever see a system of contracts, wages, and maybe even transfers in GAA. I think the whole organisation could collapse if players make serious demands for money.

I would prefer to see the FAI have their own stadium, God knows that the money has been there in the past. Now reality may dictate that eircom Park was the last great opportunity for the FAI to build their own (if it was even that), and that the money is simply not there now, but fúck it, they have to try.