IOFFL to meet our E-Minister - Mary Hanafin

Dangger

IOFFL have a meeting with Mary Hanafin this Thursday at 2:30pm.

Anyone any *specific* questions?

segadreamcast

How does she feel about the current ADSL climate, with eircom and esat seemingly working on staying out of each others way and avoiding competition.

Just a thought...

tuxy

does she know how to check e-mail use a browser etc..

spongebob

Her junior department is new and within the dept of Bertie himself. and she is only a half junior Eminister, she has another half junior ministry too Government Chief Whip..... mmmmm always wanted to meet a chief whip , no beating around the bush at this meeting I bet

ask her if she is NOW in charge of the interdepartmental committee that Bertie had on e-things, ya know the one that came up with a good report in march last which has never been heard of since. If she isn't taking over this super
interdepartmental e-who'dyamaycallit then what the fcuk IS is doing then.

Will she get the recommendations of that Intriguing Report implemented, such as the mandatory local authority comms ducting in new housing and industrial estates proposal?

Also remind her that if the department of Communication and its emasculated regulatory arm the ODTR, alone , could itself have sorted out this infrastructure plan, then the committee would never have been lashed together by Bertie in the first place.

Seeing as she won't have a clue she will agree to meet you again as soon as the civil servants start to look shifty and act furtive (usually around 12:35 to miss the queue of normal workers in the National Gallery restaurant). Do NOT leave her office without a firm appointment for that second meeting.

She is by no means the most clueless minister of all time either, she grasped her last job, kiddies and mammies, quite well.

M

dahamsta

IrelandOffline has compiled a list of Government organisations that currently have direct and indirect responsibilities for the rollout of affordable and/or high-speed internet access services in Ireland; including, but not limited to: the Director of Consumer Affairs, the Competition Authority, the ODTR, the Department of Communications, the Department of Transport, the Department of the Taoiseach, Forfás, and a number of city and county authorities. This list does not include non-Governmental organisations that are working to achieve the same end, such as IBEC, the Small Firms Association, the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland, CorkWAN, the Consumers Association of Ireland, Telework Ireland, etc.

My first question is not a question per se, it is a request for committment. Several requests in fact:

• Will the Minister commit to hosting a conference of high-level representatives of all of the above organisations to discuss a coherent strategy for the future development of the Internet in Ireland no later than the end of October?
• Will the Minister commit to using the aforementioned conference as a springboard for the creation of a permanent working group, headed by herself, that will monitor and adjust initiatives on an ongoing basis?
• Will the Minister commit to inviting a representative of IrelandOffline to the aforementioned conference as an equal contributor?
• Will the Minister commit to bringing the ODTR and the Competition Authority closer together, with a priority on developing a coherent strategy for tackling the lack of competition in the Internet connectivity marketplace?

It's obvious to everyone that efforts thus far have been disjointed and ineffective, however I won't dwell on the past simply because I am absolutely certain the Minister will, albeit inadvertently, offend IrelandOffline members with her answers, as she has already done. I'll stick to the present and the future: Some members of IrelandOffline are seriously concerned that it is too late for Ireland to become competitive as a connected state, particularly in light of cutbacks and the budget deficit that is inevitable. There is no getting around the simple fact that absolutely massive investment is required if Ireland is to regain it's reputation as a leader in tech.

So my first actual question is: Where is the money coming from? I would ask the Minister to detail current efforts to correct Ireland's rapidly expanding connectivity deficit, and to outline the Government's plan for the future, including public investment, private investment incentives, and public/private partnerships. Since I have no doubt that the Government has developed documents, schedules, projections and all manner of documents that outline present and future initiatives, I would ask the Minister to provide as much of this as possible to IrelandOffline, in the interest of transparency and accountability. As a former committee member myself, I have absolute faith that IrelandOffline can be trusted with these documents.

And finally, a very important question that has never been addressed properly: I would like an explanation of exactly how the Government intends to address the last-mile connectivity problem created by the "fibre-ring" Metropolitan Area Networks. IrelandOffline has highlighted this issue on several occasions, but has never been given a satisfactory answer, which obviously makes us suspicious. I'm sure IrelandOffline would be only too delighted to explain the Government's solution to their membership in plain English.

Thank you,
Adam Beecher
PRO, CorkWAN

yellum

Does she use the internet ?

How many people in Ireland use the internet ?

What does it cost per minute to get online before 6 and after 6 ?

Has she heard of FRIACO ?

Whats ADSL ?

etc etc

Ask her a load of questions about prices and then compare them for her to other countries.

I bet the ppl in her office are going to print this page off now and have it ready. Homework for some of the boys n gals in her office.

segadreamcast

"I bet the ppl in her office are going to print this page off now and have it ready. Homework for some of the boys n gals in her office."

Was thinking the same myself Yellum - maybe we should u2u our questions to Dangger?

spongebob

when is the government sending out our digtal certificates in the post so we can authenticate ourselves online with her e-yokes to do e-biz with our onw government .

i never got me iodine tablets during that famous pre-election mailshot so tell her to send them in the same envelope

M

jbkenn

Adam

Excellent contribution, concise, and to the point, as usual.
Congrats

jbkenn

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Muck

i never got me iodine tablets during that famous pre-election mailshot so tell her to send them in the same envelope

M

Heh, we never got enough iodine tablets - one short. And I'm the self-appointed casualty .

I always said I might die before I had decent net access...

OHP

Originally posted by Dangger
IOFFL have a meeting with Mary Hanafin this Thursday at 2:30pm.

Anyone any *specific* questions?

Yes I have one:

What is the definition of Minister?


OHP

De Rebel

Originally posted by OHP


Yes I have one:


OHP

When?

OR WHEN?


OR WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN?

And if there is a little more time, you could always aske her when?, politely loike.

My fellow corkman's post is in his usually precise way a good analysis of the issues, all the fingers in the pie, the reasons behind the delay, etc. And all the other bollix that has the situation as it is. But what this thing needs is 1 person, just 1 person to grab it by the balls and decide to make something work. Not everything, just something. Eircom spent 4 years testing ADSL. 4 bloody years. This needs a little single minded focus to push it home. Is she the one?????

gmidgely

Do you think the Irish government is embarrassed by the way that other European countries have access to what can only be deemed as acceptable internet access, where in Ireland, we trug along or pay a fortune for the pleasure of speed.?

dahamsta

Thanks for your comments guys. On some of the other posts and questions, I think people should try and remember that IO is going to have a limited amount of time with the Minister, so they have to maximise the time they have. For example, asking the the Minister if she uses the Internet isn't really going to achieve anything -- I'm willing to bet she's had several earfuls already about it whether or which. Testing her knowledge of the situation will simply annoy or even embarass her, which won't help anyone. And digital certificates are interesting, but they have very little to do with IrelandOffline's key goals.

I haven't met with a whole lot of politicians myself, but my time with IrelandOffline has taught me a few things, most importantly that you don't ask politicians questions unless you know you're going to get an honest answer, or you can use the information against them. The former is so rare as to be not worth the risk, the latter unfair treatment for someone we've never met before. So we have to concentrate on committments. Something needs to be done, and the Minister volunteered as "doer" when she said that hers was a co-ordinating role. I haven't seen any co-ordination so far, so perhaps it's time she got to work.

adam

yellum

Thats weird Adam, I never saw your post there. Its a most excellent reply. Glad your working with corkWan.

MDR

Does she believe that the governments objectives of a more equal, knowedge based society can be realised with the current internet access products ?

Does she believe the monies already invested in government websites such as Oasis, have had the desired effect of educating people or does she see that the current internet access products are standing in peoples way.

Its analogous to the government providing the books for a free library but the owner of the building charging by the minute for reading them.

LoBo

Originally posted by MDR
Its analogous to the government providing the books for a free library but the owner of the building charging by the minute for reading them.

I like it

Dustaz

Very simple really. Now that all telcos/isps apart from Eircon acknowledge that FRIACO is neccessary, will she do anything to speed up the implementation of it ? She HAS the power to do this.

Can she do anything to speed up the rollout of broadband? To stop the cozy cartel thats in operation at the moment?

De Rebel

Originally posted by Dangger
IOFFL have a meeting with Mary Hanafin this Thursday at 2:30pm.

Anyone any *specific* questions?

Dannger & co.

Much as I would be tempted, if I was meeting that particular minister I'd actually resist the temptation to be critical. (Or flatulent, as the much respected “dahamsta” recently accused me of being) Mary Hanafin has ability and determination. The way to go is to win her over. Of what’s on the horizon, she's probably the best bet for now. A far cry from M.O'Rourke. It’s a pity she has only the half car.

Specifically, I'd

(1) Keep the message simple. Not because she is stupid, not by a long shot, but because she is busy. And if she is to defeat the vested interests and the other obstacles, a simple mantra is her best bet.

(2) Emphasise a few of the Key Problems:

Living off our laurels (!) for 10 years;

No sense of urgency whatsoever among the key players;

This mess is now costing us jobs;

With the drive to reduce costs in the IT heavyweights unless we have a totally technology enabled environment as part of our armoury we will loose a lot more

Just 5 or 6points, don't bring the whole truckload of gripes, and express them in global economic terms if possible

(3) Have a few key resolutions to hand:

Urgent need for widespread FRAICO availability- no technical obstacles whatsoever - lethargy and greed are all that are defeating the national interest in this case;

Urgent need to get DSL rolled out again there has been years and years to evaluate and test - now is the time for action - this more than any other action that is within our control will shape the irish economy 10 years from now;

Urgent need for the Dept of Comms etc. to get on with Wireless broadband and fast-track it to rollout ensuring that we harness whatever the incumbent, its competitors, the ODTR, et al. have to bring to the table and ensure that none of them are allowed to delay wireless broadband's rollout by a single day. This is essential if "de Regions" are not to be disadvantaged.

And leave the rest of the wish-list in a drawer.

(4) For backup, I’d take a copy of that article that MrPudding referred to in today’s thread “Are you reading this Eircom?” and also dahamsta’s list of the fingers in the muddle.

Ok you asked the question. I'm a strategist, not a tactician. But that’s how I'd approach it.

Good luck.

pete

Right. I know this is off topic. But then, so is what I'm reacting to:

Originally posted by Muck
Seeing as she won't have a clue she will agree to meet you again as soon as the civil servants start to look shifty and act furtive (usually around 12:35 to miss the queue of normal workers in the National Gallery restaurant).

Have you any idea how insulting this kind of crap is to those of us who work in the Civil Service? Give it a ****ing rest.

(And just for the record flexi-time coretime ends at 12.30, not 12.35.)

dahamsta

(Or flatulent, as the much respected “dahamsta” recently accused me of being)

Did I?

<adam spins around like a top looking>

adam

spongebob

De Rebel said, amongst other points.....

Urgent need for the Dept of Comms etc. to get on with Wireless broadband and fast-track it to rollout ensuring that we harness whatever the incumbent, its competitors, the ODTR, et al. have to bring to the table and ensure that none of them are allowed to delay wireless broadband's rollout by a single day. This is essential if "de Regions" are not to be disadvantaged.

The Department of Comms is under Dermot Ahern and 'owns' the ODTR , Mary Hanafin is in the Dept of Bertie but she will not start a turf war with Dermot Ahern.

'De Regions' Come under Eamonn O Cuiv to a large extent. Eamonn is a very good listener but not a telecomms expert.

Competition issues come under Mary Harney at Enterprise and Employment.

Many forward planning Issues come under Environment who issue guidelines to Local Authorities in an attempt to be consistent nationally.

We have fragmentation of responsibility......very Yes Minister.

What Mary Hanafin does have going for her is an acknowlegement the construction of a competitive telecommunications environment, commensurate with an advanced technological economy, has become badly disjointed. Thats apart from what 'Rattus Hibernicus' is doing for its customers.

Therefore a high power committee, of Civil Servants may I add, was lashed together late last year. by the Department of the Taoiseach, Mary Hanafin s department.

They delivered this Excellent PDF format report promptly (before 12:30 even) back in March. It is the closest thing to a departmental constitution for Marys E-Ministry that I have seen......assuming that she is aware it even exists.

It notes clearly how we are lagging the Koreas of this world and how this can be fixed.

Hopefully Mary will simply read it and implement it and not disappear into 'consultation processes' and 'working groups' like the Department of Comms did on those unused wireless licences recently.

M

De Rebel

Originally posted by Muck


Muck said lots of stuff, in response to my comment about the .....

Urgent need for the Dept of Comms etc. to get on with Wireless broadband and fast-track it to rollout

My reason for raising this specific point is that Comunications/Public Enterprise have made a balls of most of what they touched in the last 5 years. harsh but true. Now, while dsl broadband is in its infancy, (with 1200 "users") they are gone tangentially hook line and sinker after wireless broadband without ramming the previous project home. If that’s what they want, and god knows it will be needed at the rate dsl is "rolling", then they should be focused on it. exclusively. And leave forcing dsl to someone else. Communications are incapable of juggling more than one ball.

i totally accept the point about splits, divisions etc. i'm close enough to this to know a lot more than you have posted. but its out of hand and out of control. In the history of public service in this country, Comunications/Public Enterprise over the last 5 years would rate as one of the poorest showings.

i would not concur with your point about Hannifin being unwilling to start a turf war with Ahern(D). but that’s speculation at this point. I remain convinced that she is the brightest star (100 watts) on the current firmament.

there is so much to do, that it could all get lost in 'consultation processes' and 'working groups' etc as you warn. my point is simple. pick 2 or 3 tasks and do them. when done, come back and do a few more.

Wireless broadband is a critical element, especially given the attitude of the incumbent and the incumbentess towards rollout of dsl based broadband.

De Rebel

Originally posted by dahamsta
(Or flatulent, as the much respected “dahamsta” recently accused me of being)

Did I?

<adam spins around like a top looking>

adam

you did

Originally posted by dahamsta
I honestly don't see your point vinnyfitz. Ok, Dr Rebel's post is a wee bit flatulent, ..............

adam

I've been sniffing hard ever since and failed to detect any sulphurous odours. Which doesn't manage to reduce the hurt caused by your remarks :-))


j

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Muck
They delivered this Excellent PDF format report promptly (before 12:30 even) back in March. It is the closest thing to a departmental constitution for Marys E-Ministry that I have seen......assuming that she is aware it even exists.

It notes clearly how we are lagging the Koreas of this world and how this can be fixed.

Hopefully Mary will simply read it and implement it and not disappear into 'consultation processes' and 'working groups' like the Department of Comms did on those unused wireless licences recently.

We read this shortly after it came out and the problem we had was that most of the money seems to be going into the fibre rings themselves and very little into methods of access. These ring will link Eircom exchanges and have nodes built next to the exchanges.

Now, unless you believe LLU will be a roaring success some time in the future, the fact that they are beint built around Eircom exchanges will benefit mainly Eircom as far as the ordinary user is concerned. Since they will still have the monopoly, there will be little incentive to pass on whatever savings have been handed them by the tax payer.

The other problem I have is that wireless and fibre rings seem to be used interchangeably, larger towns will get fibre but the smaller ones will get wireless. It would seem that the ones that get wireless will be the lucky ones since wireless is mainly a last-mile technology, unlike fibre.

I've a couple of other niggles but these seem to have been addressed subsequently.

dahamsta

De Rebel said: you did

Ah, so I did. Perhaps "verbose" would have been a better word.

adam

spongebob

As the rebel said:

My reason for raising this specific point is that Comunications/Public Enterprise have made a balls of most of what they touched in the last 5 years. harsh but true.

Agreed, there was no e-minister in the department that produced the 'report' in March. Now there is. She could not possibly do worse than the Department of Comms has, and she has a good strategy document from her own department to start with.

Skeptic then added:

most of the money seems to be going into the fibre rings themselves and very little into methods of access.

The important thing I saw in the Report was that these grant aided projects were not to be exclusive to one operator unlike this long running Joke here which sits in the ground unlit. Therefore €ircon couldnt take the grants and sit on the fibre like a large mutoid hen hatching a clutch of overpriced local loops. Once the committee accepted that exclusivist policies were getting us nowhere it was a good start. The Dept of Comms on its own never saw that. They had a long history behind them of protecting 'their' monopoly from competition, €ircon that is.

Remember that the €ircon monopoly was only dropped in 1998 after Mary Harney pressurised Mary O'Rourke to drop the famous derogation that protected €ircon from competition until about now.

In fairness to O'Rourke she didn't put up a fight , an FOI request would show that her own department came around to this position in a begrudging manner. The same people still run that department.......

Mary Hanafin works in a department free of this historical baggage, and her boss in the Taoiseach.

M

LoBo

Originally posted by Dangger
IOFFL have a meeting with Mary Hanafin this Thursday at 2:30pm.

Any news on how it went?

De Rebel

Skeptic then added:
unlike this long running Joke here which sits in the ground unlit.

is there more about that thing's current status anywhere?

spongebob

It is 2 years in the ground unlit.

Last heard of almost a Year Back

I could show it to you someday if you bring the crowbar.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Dangger
IOFFL have a meeting with Mary Hanafin this Thursday at 2:30pm.

Any report / feedback ?