Broadband &Friaco

corkey

Hi

Check out the supplement with Irish independent good interview with Scott Taunton UTV, All about eircom wholesale rates &Friaco

LoBo

Quote / link to it here please?

LFCFan

UTVip have basically said they'd be in Ireland rolling out DSL in the morning if they were able but €ircon are preventing it. Bastards!

Kulgan

Broadband wholesale rates too high for competition

High Charges for wholesale line rental from Eircom are preventing telecom and internet service providers from offering broadband services.
UTV Internet, which in recent weeks launched a flat-rate internet service to the Republic of Ireland for €29.99 per month based on existing phone lines using carrier preselect (CPS), claims it is being prevented from offering broadband services in the Irish market because it cannot foresee how margins can be achieved from the present wholesale rates.

According to Scott Taunton managing director of UTV Internet:" There is a lot of hype about flat-rate internet access (FRIACO) but the reality is the economic model isn't there. It is a shame. While i think Eircom is entitled to charge for line rental, the present rate is too high. If the price was one we could afford and consumers are happy with, we could very quickly begin to offer broadband services in the form of DSL in Ireland. It would be a number one priority to us."

Eircom's wholesale prices were the subject of a bitter legal battle with the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation (ODTR), with both sides agreeing to end the battle once Eircom introduced a wholesale line rental rate of €16.97 a month. However this is more expensive than the €16.27 per month that Eircom charges its retail customers, a factor that is making providers such as Esat BT and UTV Internet question the merits of trying to compete against Eircom.

"In the UK, in excess of 30,000 new broadband lines are becoming available every month and one DSL provider called Blue Yonder is signing up 1,000 customers a day for its services. The rates here need to change. Consumer groups, the regulator and government agencies should encourage the availability of a reasonable rate to ensure that the Republic isn't lagging behind the rest of Europe, which is enjoying DSL at reasonable rates," Taunton says. "We are offering broadband in Northern Ireland for £27 sterling a month and in the UK other service providers are offering it for less than €20."

Taunton's views are echoed by the head of regulatory affairs at Esat BT, David Taylor, who says that once Esat BT completes its rollout of DSL throughout Ireland through local loop unbundling of some 40 exchanges by the year's end, it is unlikely the company will unbundle further exchanges because of the wholesale rates. He says the fact the rollout is 40pc funded from a Government grant is the sole reason why it is going ahead at this point.
"Unless our input costs fall dramatically, the probability of us unbundling any more exchanges is zero," he adds.
As we went to press, it was understood that Eircom and the ODTR were locked in negotiations over the wholesale rates. "Hopefully a new rate will be determined in the next few weeks," Taylor says.

Scott Taunton of UTV Internet says: "All talk of FRIACO at this point is pointless. FRIACO is not agreed and not available. Eircom itself doesn't even use a FRIACO service. This is an issue that nearly every other country has already left behind and is focusing on better broadband services. I'd be keen to see the same happen here some day."

LoBo

thanks for the text Kulgan, interesting read
Keep up the good work Scott & UTVi

kamobe

It is a SUPER breakthrough to see an article like that in the papers. First time I've seen anything like it here. One company, standing up and saying "Eircom are preventing us from releasing a product". Esat never did, and now that UTV have stepped up, I see them agreeing.....

The indo has a very large circulation, and I hope the message gets accross. Good things can happen if this kind of coverage continues...

zynaps

If people keep that up, things might actually change

Show of hands for Scott!

sláinte
zynaps

Xian

According to Scott Taunton managing director of UTV Internet:" There is a lot of hype about flat-rate internet access (FRIACO) but the reality is the economic model isn't there. It is a shame. While i think Eircom is entitled to charge for line rental, the present rate is too high. If the price was one we could afford and consumers are happy with, we could very quickly begin to offer broadband services in the form of DSL in Ireland. It would be a number one priority to us."
...
Scott Taunton of UTV Internet says: "All talk of FRIACO at this point is pointless. FRIACO is not agreed and not available. Eircom itself doesn't even use a FRIACO service. This is an issue that nearly every other country has already left behind and is focusing on better broadband services. I'd be keen to see the same happen here some day."

Go shoot yourself in the foot while you're at it, Scott. It's an issue that's been thrashed about and pretty much agreed upon here that while the availability of broadband can be improved independent of wholesale flat rate, the takeup of broadband and the internet in general stagnates without a wholesale flat rate package in place.

kamobe

I'm confused. HOW is that a shot in the foot?? Are you implying that broadband should be delayed for flat-rate? Are you crazy? Flat-rate is necessary, but broadband will generate MILLIONS more then flat-rate ever will. What kinda multi-national cares about dial-up???

Xian

Originally posted by kamobe
I'm confused. HOW is that a shot in the foot??

Originally stated by Scott
All talk of FRIACO at this point is pointless. FRIACO is not agreed and not available. Eircom itself doesn't even use a FRIACO service. This is an issue that nearly every other country has already left behind and is focusing on better broadband services. I'd be keen to see the same happen here some day.

Originally posted by Xian
It's an issue that's been thrashed about and pretty much agreed upon here that while the availability of broadband can be improved independent of wholesale flat rate, the takeup of broadband and the internet in general stagnates without a wholesale flat rate package in place.

Dangger

I'm confused. HOW is that a shot in the foot??

Yes the minority realise the potential of broadband in Ireland, but the majority have not grasped the potential of the service. You cannot expect people to just jump on the broadband wagon, if they percieve the Internet to be slow and charged by the minute. Irish users have been conditioned to expect slow connectivity and to pay per minute.

Dial-up flat rate is IMPERATIVE to enable the casual user to explore and discover the potenital of the web at their own pace with no requirement for a line of site test or a DSL line test. With flat rate dial up people are free to investigate (all be it at a slower speed) the potenitial benefits of being more connected.

After unmetered access the logical and statistcially proven step is a demand for speed. Users are willing to pay for broadband connectivity. You cannot expect the average net user to go for broadband straight up. With so few Irish *homes* broadband enabled its going to take gradual steps to get the telephone bill paying home owners to move on to broadband. Flate rate dial up is a must in this regard.

kamobe

Gonna address the other two questions at all?? Most importantly, does IOFFL recommend holding off on broadband, untill flat-rate is in place? Are you prioritising flat-rate OVER broadband? Buisness interest in broadband will never decrease (or stagnate), regardless of whether flat-rate dial up is available. Surely broadband is of more importance, more IMMEDIATE importance, to the country right now.

I'm not saying FRIACO is not needed, small buisness's home owners etc would benefit. But to choose it over broadband?

EDIT: I did not see Dangers post, whilst typing this(yes it did take me 10 minutes! But I was chatting away as well....)

RicardoSmith

Not much point in having broadband if you can't afford to use it is there?

Dangger

Are you implying that broadband should be delayed for flat-rate?

Absolutely not. But to ensure take up of broadband is high, and to allow people to *realise* what broadband is all about, an intermediate service such as FRIACO is required.

Are you crazy?

No. As seen in other EU member states once flate rate dial up is available, the next progression for net users is broadband.

Flat-rate is necessary, but broadband will generate MILLIONS more then flat-rate ever will.

You should try telling that to Eircom.

What kinda multi-national cares about dial-up???

IrelandOffline does not represent multinationals. We represent the home user and SME's. Both of which require the opportunity to use the Internet unmetered to get to grips with potential of broadband, and as I have stated before FRIACO is an intermediate step. Multinationals have always been looked after in this country, its the other end of the spectrum who have suffered, continuously.

kamobe

IrelandOffline does not represent multinationals. We represent the home user and SME's. Both of which require the opportunity to use the Internet unmetered to get to grips with potential of broadband, and as I have stated before FRIACO is an intermediate step. Multinationals have always been looked after in this country, its the other end of the spectrum who have suffered, continuously.

Nicely addressed, hope I haven't angered anyone with my questions/comments....

Dangger

hope I haven't angered anyone with my questions/comments....

Not at all. Its important to cover this ground in the open.:)

spongebob

for the British, see Here .

dahamsta

Go shoot yourself in the foot while you're at it, Scott.

I was thinking the same thing myself. "All talk of FRIACO at this point is pointless" was a really silly thing to say, and doesn't help our cause one bit.

adam

LFCFan

Ads like that make me sick. I'm sick of getting computer magazines and seeing endless ads for cheap broadband in the UK. It makes me sick that the likes of €ircon are not embarrassed into action. €ircon are the main reason why this country will never compete in the global marketplace. My dislike for them grows more and more every day and every time I see another ad for ADSL internet access in the UK.

Hannibal_12

I actually agree with what Scott says completely. I know there are those who need flatrate but to be quite honest for me its a waste of time simply because its just too slow. I have never understood this mentality of introducing people to flatrate first then hoping that they will take up broadband, how much longer will this take? if it happens at all. Will people have sufficient incentive to go with broadband when they are happily surfing away for a lower price with 56k( Too many uncertainties in predicting peoples responses). BT have launched a multi million pound advertising campaign to entice people to sign up to broadband in Britain (along with other independent operators), when will this happen here?.
As I said before I was recently in Cyprus where I found you can get 600kbps DSL for €22 per month! Dublin alone would swallow most of the population of the entire country there and what do I have here, nothing.
I suppose there are two divergent sets of people here in Internet repressed Ireland, those that want flat rate above all else first and those that want broadband above all else first. I'm in the latter group, always have been and always will be.
Its an old argument anyway that I'm not going to get involved in.

LFCFan

It's a sad indication of the state of this countries internet ability when we are 'looking forward' to flat rate internet access with dial up connections while the rest of the world are already enjoying Broadband access. Bertie and his goons should be ashamed of themselves.

tuxy

i think friaco is important for broadband
at the moment eircom dont want people to take up adsl because they can make more money ripping people off for pay per minute dial up
but if there was friaco then they would want people taking up adsl
adsl wont be widly avilable untill eircom want people to take it up
thats why i think friaco is even more important than broadband at the moment it will encorage eircom to roll out adsl

LFCFan

that FRIACO needs to be in place to force the hand of Eircom. I just think that it's a sad state of affairs that a country can be held to ransom like this and get blatantly ripped off and our Government are just sitting back and letting it happen. Bertie want's every home to have broadband within 2 years yet he does nothing to facilitate this. Does he think it's just gonna happen with the likes of Eircom running the show. He needs to take a reality pill and get up off his lazy sorry ass and do something about the state of this effin country.

corkey

Hi All

What we are about to told reminds me of the 80s, Eircon are going to say that the exchanges cant handle it and there will be no FRIACO going to happen, Eircon went solo but did not take in the high numbers of staff they have they never sat down and looked at the real world of telcoms companys, Bt did not but some how with good leadership they are now takeing on all companys cable and everyone else with broadband,The 80s eircon started up new exchanges but what have they done since, Screw every one with home access for a pc. Thank god for UTV
they have started something Scot gave a interview on friday about Fraico they are takeing on eircon it wont be soon but broadband is going to be here soon .The last mile to the exchange is the prop after hearing Pat Kenny this morning,
It seems a long wait

Theres my rant for today
Corkey

BigEejit

I have a job with a large multinational and at work I can download at some VERY impressive speeds, (Win2k sp3 downloaded in 1 min 12 secs more that 400KB per second) ... I go home to 56k ... what a pain in the ass that is ... no matter how little Eircon would charge for real always on 56k FRIACO I wouldnt go for it ... I'd hold out until I got broadband in my locality (Cork) ... dont even talk to me about those muppets at Chorus ...leading me on for the last four years ...

Canadian

I laugh every time I hear that ad where the taxi driver claims that what Ireland really needs is a Space Shuttle.

ADSL is easy, proven, cheap to implement, and a mature technology. Developing countries such as Sri Lanka, South Africa and Poland all have it. (I don't dare call Ireland 'developing' again...I'm still tender from all the flames)

There must be a rational explanation why Ireland doesn't even have Flat Rate, let alone broadband.

Possible reasons:

1. Government does not think it is of value to force it.

- if this is the case the government is simply dumb, which is unlikely but a statistical possibility. (we'll see how well the irish team does at next summers special olympics here)

2. Government understands broadbands value to Ireland's future, but does not force it for some other reason.

- if this is the case then someone is getting motivated to allow the monopoly to derail the future of the country. This is entirely possible given the number of scandals that seem to occur here. In my opinion this is the most likely reason.

3. Government is focused and spending money on more important infrastructure therefore broadband is being ignored.

- Luas & the port tunnel are the only things that seem to be happening.

4. Government thinks that broadband should be market driven.

- a serious possiblity, but not rooted in fact given that the 'public good' is controlled by a private company. The government economists should know better...

5. People demanding broadband are incorrect when they claim its important to Ireland's future, and the Goverment secretly knows this.

- maybe Ireland is better off without Flat Rate Access or Broadband as it may be better for the country to spend it's evenings and weekends in other ways. Email is well served by dial-up, but some may ask why providing better pings to 14 year old Quake III players does for the economy? This explanation ignores all the business reasons for broadband and therefore cannot be taken seriously.


Whether this 'Information Famine' causes the best and brightest to leave over the next few years will be for historians to debate. There IS a logical explanation tho as to why Sri Lankans can do something the Irish can't.

Keep in mind, you're giving the British something else about which they can one-up you on.


================
Vote Yes to Nice
Please Stop Littering Everywhere.

OHP

I have been digging up all sorts about BB in Ireland for the last hour or so and found some interesting stuff like this.

A new government programme will see 50,000 kilometres of high-speed fibre-optic cable provide broadband internet access to 123 towns and cities in Ireland over the next five years. The cost will be €300 million.
Im not sure of how to post a link to it here but ill try.

http://www.thepost.ie/story.jsp?story=WCContent;id-41759

So has there been any move on this yet or is it all just gobbly gook and lies?


OHP

OHP

This initiative will provide a boost to industry, business and, more importantly, allow the consumers and educational institutes high-speed, quality access," said Mary O'Rourke, Minister for Public Enterprise. "We have been working on this project since last year and government has just provided the final go-ahead," she said.

And now look at her! LOL! Just goes to show LIES will get you everywhere HUH!

The department has also suggested that January 1, 2005 will be ICT Changeover Day and that all government and public services will be online by that date.

hmmmmmm only another 3 years to wait to get out of the Stoneage then. If this is old news im sorry for posting it but I found it sooo amousing and laughable.


OHP