The Office

potoole · 01-10-2002 11:44am #1

A number of people have been talking about the new series of The Office last night on BBC2. It wasn't on Sky Digital BBC2 NI last night. I can only assume it's another ridiculous rights issue or something.:mad:

speedfreak · 01-10-2002 12:50pm

yeah what's going on there?? The Irish Times and the Sunday Paper's TV guides had it listed as being on BBC 2 last night. I was really looking forward to it and was not happy to see some crappy NI show on instead (and that show is on again next Monday @ 10pm). I thought maybe it was a BBC2 NI difference as opposed to a Digital v Terrestrial issue. Why wouldn't it be on Digital?? Not happy!!

DMC · 01-10-2002 1:23pm

Yes, it was a BBC TWO NI only problem, and not a rights issue.

According to the blessed Digiguide, BBC TWO NI (on Digital TV only) had scheduled, in their wisdom, a different programme, Beechy after Dark.

The Office was shown on normal terrestrial BBC TWO in the north and down here.

So not an Irish block because of rights then. But still a pisher, they should've done better than that.

speedfreak · 01-10-2002 1:40pm

Thats a joke. Why have that 'Beechy' show on digital only?? Hopefully N2 will get the new Office series....

potoole · 01-10-2002 2:08pm

Yes, it was a BBC TWO NI only problem, and not a rights issue.

If it was not a rights issue, when are they going to show it then?

TomTom · 01-10-2002 2:14pm

I seen the ofice for the first time last night. How long has it being running, it a very funny program. I presume you can buy the older series because I cought a glimpse of an advertisment for something like that after the program.

Red Devil · 01-10-2002 5:02pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/

Let them know that 'Beechy' was not appreciated maybe a decision might be made to broadcast it on BBC NI digital sooner rather than later.

Surely there was a lot of other programmes that could be replaced, I cursed them so much last night as I don't have cable only digital.

Our man in Havana · 01-10-2002 5:02pm

Originally posted by potoole

If it was not a rights issue, when are they going to show it then?

Probably never!
Same thing happened with Top Gear. They never showed it. There was an annocement saying to tune to BBC2 on channel 960 but the ROI cant get that.

We should just get the BBC2 generic version?

opinions?

potoole · 01-10-2002 5:47pm

Surely there was a lot of other programmes that could be replaced, I cursed them so much last night as I don't have cable only digital.

There are tons of other options for that stupid programme - it is deeply cynical I think to replace such a much-heralded programme. Regionalisation is not a new phenomenon, but at least in the old days they showed the programme later on the same night!

mfield · 01-10-2002 6:19pm

Was The Office available with an FTA card? I watched it in my mates house on cable, first time I saw it, and will hopefully be able to continue to watch it in my own home on Digital.

mfield.

ShaneOC · 01-10-2002 6:23pm

Yes, if you have a FTV card you get all four versions of BBC 2 so you can watch the Office.

speedfreak · 02-10-2002 8:01am

Last night at 10pm Porridge was on. Great show and all that but its been repeated ad infinitum. Who would scheduled 'Beechy' to replace a brand new series of The Office, a BAFA award winning comedy and not this old programme? Just doesnt make sense to me.

Leesider · 02-10-2002 2:27pm

This really annoys me.
How can BBC NI hijack prime-time slots with these mediocre programmes? And I notice they are starting to repeat their BBC1 shows on BBC2 now, at prime time slots, 8-9pm.

How many more 'Sky High' shows can they make? Daniel O'Donnell Chat shows, The Childrens (Belfast hospital show), South City Beat (NI police), Music Asides, Beechy, DIY shows - these guys have endless resources for making local shows.
They put RTE to shame with the amount of stuff they produce.

I remember years ago, when Cork Multi Channle switched from BBC1 Wales to BBC1 NI, it was great, because NI only had a few minor variations from the main BBC1. Now it's the total opposite.

I have a Scottish FTV card, and even BBC1 Scotland has nowhere near as many variations as NI.

I heard an old man saying last week that the BBC1 on Sky Digital isn't any good, as it's not the 'real one'. At least I can change over to the FTV card, but it's annoying for people who don't have the option.

Our man in Havana · 02-10-2002 3:35pm

Time for a new campaign to get the real BBC 1+2 on Sky!
Email the people that matter! They cant ignore us!

Mossy Monk · 02-10-2002 9:49pm

as mentioned before this happened with Top Gear and that really got on my nerves because BBC 2 Wales via the aerial was dodgy to say the least. BBC1 NI i thought was always the same as analogue. Sky wont care what programmes are missing on BBC 2 NI. they can still say BBC 1 and BBC 2 available on Sky. it is just total madness that they have replaced The Office with local programming but that's the way it is. complain and they might do something about it

DMC · 02-10-2002 10:11pm

The reason BBC TWO NI differs on Sky Digital than analogue is that when the BBC Choice regions packed up, the nations (Scotland, Wales and NI) wanted to continue to broadcast local programming throughout the UK in the 960's, and so these shows were shown primetime on BBC TWO, and seperate service launched from digital and satellite.

Bummer, yes, but at least we don't get the bastardised version the Welsh get with BBC 2W

BBC ONE NI doesn't differ on any platform.

And before anyone thinks of complaining, I can tell you the answer back will be "we don't pay the licence fee"

Dead end, folks.

seano · 03-10-2002 12:11am

I shall tell you what you all should do!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever wants BBC Wales/England or Scotland go and live there.

BBC NI provides a service for an Northern Irish audience and that service is excellent

So TAKE IT OR LEAVE YOU BUNCH OF WHINGERS.

You are all crying for UTV and when it comes a week later you will all be saying that it is crap because on ITV London they show better shows..

As with complaining .Do you all actually think that Sky etc care about a couple of people from this site crying for UTV etc.Come on!!!!!!!!!

DMC · 03-10-2002 7:27am

Someone is missing the point here!!!

Viewers to BBC TWO NI on Sky Digital in the North also missing out on this very popular comedy series. Not only are they giving us a different version, they are giving it to their local audience too.

The point is, other platforms (cable and MMDS) have UTV and Channel 4, and for those who dont know the ins and outs of the TV politics, they see that one has these popular channels, and cant fathom why the other doesn't.

Now if thats whinging, WHINGE ON MY GOOD PEOPLE!

seano · 03-10-2002 10:16am

WHINGE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ShaneOC · 03-10-2002 10:45am

Originally posted by DMC
Viewers to BBC TWO NI on Sky Digital in the North also missing out on this very popular comedy series. Not only are they giving us a different version, they are giving it to their local audience too.

However viewers in Norther Ireland can access the regular BBC2 output on one of the 960 channels (as well as through an aerial).

03-10-2002 10:48am

Originally posted by seano
I shall tell you what you all should do!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever wants BBC Wales/England or Scotland go and live there.

BBC NI provides a service for an Northern Irish audience and that service is excellent

So TAKE IT OR LEAVE YOU BUNCH OF WHINGERS.

You are all crying for UTV and when it comes a week later you will all be saying that it is crap because on ITV London they show better shows..

As with complaining .Do you all actually think that Sky etc care about a couple of people from this site crying for UTV etc.Come on!!!!!!!!!

I take exception to these comments.
We live in a democracy and an open market.
The BBC are providing BBC 1 and 2 NI to customers of sky digital in ROI.
The ROI customer is paying the BBC for theses services.
The customer isalways right and is entitled to lobby for what they want.

Seano you are missing the point here, the original poster was expressing the view that he/she wanted to see the Office, a programme denied to Sky digital viewers in the Republic but not to Sky viewers in the North as they can see it in the 960's or on terrestial.
It is perfectly legitimate of you to argue that BBCNI do a good job servicing the needs of NI viewers, but the gist of this thread is that perhaps viewers in the Republic would as customers prefer to be paying the BBC for it's London output.
mm

DMC · 03-10-2002 10:50am

Yes, quite true Shane, I left that out. But they never advertise the fact that the other flavours of BBC TWO are available on DSAT.... Or in overlap areas of ITV in the 960's for that matter either.....

Mossy Monk · 03-10-2002 10:59am

how hard would it be to include the BBC2 national output on our cards. programme rights would hardly come into it seeing as BBC2 NI is already there

seano · 03-10-2002 12:37pm

BIG YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leesider · 03-10-2002 1:18pm

Good point, Mossy.

Seano - we're trying to be constructive here, the contributors to this forum can do without unnecessary jibes.

seano · 03-10-2002 1:39pm

I am going on Holidays for a few weeks so you can all continue to whinge in peace.

03-10-2002 1:47pm

Originally posted by seano
I am going on Holidays for a few weeks so you can all continue to whinge in peace.

Perhaps you should use the term whinge correctly or not at all.
This thread is a discussion, it is unfortunate that you cannot tell the difference.
mm

potoole · 03-10-2002 1:52pm

Seano - we're trying to be constructive here, the contributors to this forum can do without unnecessary jibes.

Exactly, this thread is about more than just one programme, it's just that The Office is so high profile it becomes a powerful catalyst for the wider issue of which version of BBC2 we have been lumbered with.

lawhec · 04-10-2002 12:25am

Time for a new campaign to get the real BBC 1+2 on Sky! Email the people that matter! They cant ignore us!

I shall tell you what you all should do!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever wants BBC Wales/England or Scotland go and live there.

BBC NI provides a service for an Northern Irish audience and that service is excellent

So TAKE IT OR LEAVE YOU BUNCH OF WHINGERS.

You are all crying for UTV and when it comes a week later you will all be saying that it is crap because on ITV London they show better shows..

As with complaining .Do you all actually think that Sky etc care about a couple of people from this site crying for UTV etc.Come on!!!!!!!!!

While Seano's outburst is rather immature, he holds a valid point in his arguement. The initial stimulation for BBC programming in the Republic came about from terrestial overspill from transmitters in Northern Ireland, and in the South East of Ireland from Wales. Then the bloddy rebels in One Channel Land took a major huff and demanded their own cable networks in Cork etc. even though the local area had no hope of receiving UK terrestial TV via normal UHF aerials except under freak conditions. And so everything evolved so that the four NI versions of UK terrestial channels were available across the Republic (the Welsh version in some areas). Now with Sky Digital in the Republic you can get BBC1 & 2 NI versions - like it was before digital satellite (almost). UTV's problems for getting on to the platform in the Republic is well documented, and five are clear cut in saying they have no interest in pursuing a southern Irish audience. It is only Channel 4's stance that remains a mystery.

However there is a point to be brokered about wanting the "real" (I assume a London feed) BBC1 & 2 in the Sky packages in the Republic - it is not technically feasible (except in a few freakish high areas perhaps) to receive the BBC services from an English Transmitter. Therefore IMHO there is no right to ask for it for BBC1 at least, I'll explain in a moment.

The point about the Office is a valid one and there may be a case for the main BBC2 feed becoming available on Sky in the Republic. However there is a crucial difference between the way it is offered to views in Northern Ireland and that in the Republic. In the Republic BBC Worldwide collects from Sky the required fees for allowing BBC1 & 2 to be seen outside it's specific rights terriority. An additional version of BBC2 would almost certainly see the BBC wanting more money which in turn would push subs up. Is it really necessary for a few more hours a week? In Northern Ireland these services are paid for by the licence fee, and the BBC has a policy to make as many services available to licence fee payers as long as it's feasible. BBC1 has certain programs which have rights held to certain parts of the UK only and the BBC feel it isn't feasible to spend money on allowing the BBC1 regions available across the UK (e.g. a program that is shown on BBC1 in England, Wales & Scotland at 9.30pm but in Ni at 11.15pm could be classed as two showings and would have to pay repeat fees). BBC Choice was originally designed to bear this in mind and when it became de-regionalised this theroy then applied to BBC2 which the Beeb are happy enough it seems.

It could be argued that BBC1 & 2 that is part of the Sky package in the Republic is a replica of that of DTT transmissions from Northern Ireland which can be picked up around border areas in the Republic, therefore the terrestial overspill arguement exists there. And it may be possible to extend this arguement for the services of News 24, BBC4 etc.

I take exception to these comments.
We live in a democracy and an open market.
The BBC are providing BBC 1 and 2 NI to customers of sky digital in ROI.
The ROI customer is paying the BBC for theses services.
The customer isalways right and is entitled to lobby for what they want.

Seano you are missing the point here, the original poster was expressing the view that he/she wanted to see the Office, a programme denied to Sky digital viewers in the Republic but not to Sky viewers in the North as they can see it in the 960's or on terrestial.
It is perfectly legitimate of you to argue that BBCNI do a good job servicing the needs of NI viewers, but the gist of this thread is that perhaps viewers in the Republic would as customers prefer to be paying the BBC for it's London output.

Those viewers in the Republic are no more entitled to having a feed of NBC from New York as they have from the BBC in London. Not even NI viewers can legitimately receive a BBC1 feed direct from London. It goes back to overspill from TX's.

Ultimately the reason why BBC1 & 2 NI is available in Sky packages in the Republic is down to the fact that cable TV has had these services for many years. In the digital age pushing such an arguement may end up actually losing the BBC services for yourselves rather than gaining any and when analogue terrestial is switched off in the UK who knows what will happen.

Seano made the point that when (not so much a matter of if) UTV appears on Sky Digital in the Republic some will then be demanding the Carlton London/LWT feed be made available to them. Nobody in the Republic has any right in doing so. It's called parity - as I've already said the BBC1 & 2 service available in the Republic is a replica of the DTT service in NI, the future medium.

If UTV/CH4 becomes available then be glad for it. But some moaners here try to be greedy and push for more which is entirely new and dangerous ground and also a risky one. It's much more sensible to take what you have & get rather than lose it all which could ultimately happen.

speedfreak · 04-10-2002 9:27am

Its all very well saying be happy with what you have got, but we bought Sky Digital on the basis that it had BBC1 and BBC 2 (as promoted by SKY) and Irish stations. I didnt expect a half arsed version of either... My whole problem with this is that BBC2 NI terrestrial had 'The Office' and BBC2 NI Digital didnt. Regional programming is fair enough as long as it doesnt replace the networked programme but merely delays its broadcast. If so many different programmes are going to be blocked across the various stations, SKY should state this in their promo material so people wont expect the full service. God knows what UTV will be like....

lawhec · 04-10-2002 12:20pm

Again let me point this out - you aren't getting a half arsed version. You are getting the exact same signal as everyone else who watches BBC2 NI is, which is the same across all digital platforms at least in the UK (I don't know for Chrous & NTL in the Republic). Ultimately there are some differences between the analogue and digital output of BBC2 Northern Ireland and I believe this will continue until analogue terrestial TV is switched off. What will then happen? Who knows but there will be only the one version again. I agree on the point of regional broadcasts delaying programming but the BBC under it's charter has an obligation to serve its licence payers first and foremost which therefore takes you back to Seano's point of serving NI viewers. If you feel strongly about it my guess would be to complain to the guys at Belfast who may be more sympathetic rather than direct at London who have no direct control over what the ones at Ormeau Road do.

The point about UTV is different - it is being shortchanged by influences outside of their control and may have to come to a compromise situation which is better than nothing at all. Like it or not Digital TV leaves the channels with more power over what viewers can watch and trying to push arguements too far in this age may lead to an ultimate loss which is what happened to RoI subs when the ITV channels were blocked because of too much loose talk.

potoole · 04-10-2002 1:38pm

Ultimately there are some differences between the analogue and digital output of BBC2 Northern Ireland and I believe this will continue until analogue terrestial TV is switched off.

Why should there be a difference between the analogue and digital output of any regional channel. I mean, they are both aimed at the same audience. Aren't they denying the non-digital subscribers in the north of the joys of "Beechy After Dark".

I now dread the day that terrestrial analogue TV is switched off. It is all too easy to control what gets broadcast and where with digital.

Leesider · 06-10-2002 7:15pm

Sorry to disappoint all you 'Beechy after Dark' fans, but BBC2 NI has 'The Office' showing at 10pm tomorrow night at 10pm (according to the EPG)

Mossy Monk · 06-10-2002 8:11pm

aw dang. what will us Beechy fans do now :mad:

Tony · 06-10-2002 11:52pm

I find this an interesting thread in so far as there are those who seek to denigrate the complaints of consumers. Lets get this straight, anyone who pays for something is entitled to comaplain if she/he is not happy with what is supplied. Sky sought to justify a price increase partly on the basis of BBc1/2 being added to the package, so if the content is not what customers desire then complaints are wholly justified. (customer is always right).

Seano you yourself complained that RTE was no longer part of the value pack which was a valid complaint, yet you seek to trivialise the concerns of others here, I find this disappointing given that your remarks until this point in time have been constructive.

Regards Tony

06-10-2002 11:57pm

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent
Those viewers in the Republic are no more entitled to having a feed of NBC from New York as they have from the BBC in London. Not even NI viewers can legitimately receive a BBC1 feed direct from London. It goes back to overspill from TX's.

Northern Correspondent , you raise some very valid points.
The system set up for programme makers etc to maximise revenue does definitely not conform to the maxim that the customer is always right, ie if you want a good or service, if theres a demand for that good or service, then the open market should provide it.
Technically though illegally, it is, via the smuggling of BBC Cards to places where they are not supposed to be.

The back of my sky card clearly states"This card is the property of Sky subscribers services Ltd and must be returned upon request"

That is also on the back of the "BBC" Sky card. Clearly subscription cards will not be sent out to mainland Europe addresses but they get there, against their owners(Sky) wishes.
BBC cards will not be sent by Sky to ROI addresses, but they get there against their owners wishes.
I will leave it to Sky to wade through the murky legal waters, they have been known to go to court, but the game is so widespread it musn't be worth their while.

I agree that making demands for "extra" services from both the BBC and ITV might get their backs up and make them switch off existing services, but I doubt it.
Peoples ingenuity in ROI regarding getting UK TV is boundless, just read the history of SCCTV on their website for an example.
Deflectors like theirs sprung up everywhere in once "one" channel land.
That same ingenuity was responsible for the adding channel facility storing ITV on virtually every digibox in the country very quickly here...keeping that a secret for long wasn't going to happen.
No doubt the guys at TV3 would have been telling their friends at Granada how unfair it was:rolleyes:

I'm not a fan of the Rights system.
mm

Lennoxschips · 07-10-2002 12:49am

I agree that making demands for "extra" services from both the BBC and ITV might get their backs up and make them switch off existing services, but I doubt it.

Remember, ITV used to be available in Ireland via the "Other Channels" option, but when people pointed this out to SKY and ITV when arguing it shuold be added to the EPG, it was blocked altoghether.

potoole · 07-10-2002 10:51am

Sorry to disappoint all you 'Beechy after Dark' fans, but BBC2 NI has 'The Office' showing at 10pm tomorrow night at 10pm (according to the EPG)

Hurrrah! Hopefully common sense has prevailed. I wonder if it's the first episode or the second?

potoole · 07-10-2002 11:02am

Sorry to disappoint all you 'Beechy after Dark' fans, but BBC2 NI has 'The Office' showing at 10pm tomorrow night at 10pm (according to the EPG)

A note of caution though- on the Sky site tv listings, the channel known as "BBC2 IRELAND DIGITAL" has "Beechy" down for 10pm. This is our channel isn't it?

Mossy Monk · 07-10-2002 12:47pm

but the EPG clearly states The Office at 10pm. it did last night anyway. is The Office repeated any night because Monday is really awkward for myself

Leesider · 07-10-2002 1:19pm

Mossy, it's definitely repeated on BBC Choice (I think it's Thursday night around 9.30pm). I know you have your FTV card, so you can tune in.

potoole · 07-10-2002 1:39pm

but the EPG clearly states The Office at 10pm. it did last night anyway. is The Office repeated any night because Monday is really awkward for myself

I checked the BBC site and their listings for BBC2 NI Digital states that the office is on at 10pm

eth0_ · 07-10-2002 1:44pm

Originally posted by potoole
A note of caution though- on the Sky site tv listings, the channel known as "BBC2 IRELAND DIGITAL" has "Beechy" down for 10pm. This is our channel isn't it?

THAT is the **** that was on LAST week when i was happily looking forward to David Brent et all, and at 10pm on comes Julian SImmons from UTV chatting with a couple of morons for half an hour! The office is NOT shown on BBC2 NI!

Does anyone know the frequency for regular BBC2? I don't want to miss it again tonight!

ShaneOC · 07-10-2002 2:03pm

Originally posted by eth0_
Does anyone know the frequency for regular BBC2? I don't want to miss it again tonight!

The frequency details are irrelevant. If you have an ROI Sky card the regular BBC2 is blocked, you can only receive BBC2NI. If you have a FTV card the regular BBC2 will probably be on 102, or if not it will be between 960-962.

Anyway, it looks like the office will be on BBC2NI tonight.

Mossy Monk · 07-10-2002 3:17pm

Originally posted by Leesider
Mossy, it's definitely repeated on BBC Choice (I think it's Thursday night around 9.30pm). I know you have your FTV card, so you can tune in.

great stuff. thank you

Leesider · 10-10-2002 9:08pm

The latest edition of 'Radio Times' (which is a very comprehensive listings mag) states that 'Beechy' is on BBC2 NI Digital next Monday at 10pm. However the Sky EPG says 'The Office' is on. This seems a bit strange. Was 'Beechy' pulled from the schedules very abruptly?

bazza · 15-10-2002 11:25am

It appears so - The Office was shown last night on BBC2-NI !

Yippie!

The Office

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