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Make the charts a fairer place for all bands

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  • 02-10-2002 8:22pm
    #1
    IrishUnsinged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭


    As a matter of interest, do any of you (or your colleagues) have any contacts in the record retail sector?

    Reason I ask is that we are in correspondence with chart-track re: how the whole chart thing works. We are getting a positive response (they appear to want clarity and transparancy, as much as we do) and there is the possibility that we can arrange cost-free installation in ANY shop, independent or otherwise, of the chart-track data-collection system. The more shops that are chart shops, the less chance of someone manipulating the charts thru knowledge of where and when to buy.

    Please pass on my email address to any shop owner/manager you might know and ask them to email me if they are interested in hearing more. Ron@IrishUnsigned.com or get along to www.IrishUnsinged.com

    Are the Charts fair to altrnative, underground, independent, unsigned or local bands? 26 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    15% 4 votes
    I have no idea
    61% 16 votes
    What's a Chart?
    11% 3 votes
    Only if you know what shops to sell in.
    11% 3 votes


Comments

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    #2
    The Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭The Gopher


    This should really be in the music forum but anyway.........
    The charts have never been fair to decent bands/artists,and the explosion of Pop Idol tv shows and the like hasnt helped the matter.But one key reason that decent musicians dont make number 1 is that fans of decent music realise that uts a waste of time buying singles that get regular radioplay.But fans of the likes of westlife are typically 10 years old and buy the single for to show their love and build up their record collection.


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    #3
    CuLT
    Subscribers Posts: 9,716 ✭✭✭CuLT


    The market is transparent. there are more pop/dance fans than rock/metal fans. tbh.


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    #4
    Monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 927 ✭✭✭Monkey


    Who cares about singles??? Albums are what matter.


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    #5
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #6
    Venom
    Registered Users Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭Venom


    Record companies have never be above bulk buying the singles of crap bands to help push their image up a notch in the publics eye and therfore the charts are not very reliable.

    Even getting to no.1 is alot easier these days then back in the 60s and 70s due to such manipulation. The amount of records needed to be sold in todays market to reach the covented no.1 spot is a hell of alot less than in the days when the charts ment something.


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    #7
    Dun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Dun


    Haven't believed a chart in years. About ten years ago hardly anyone got in at number one straight away, nowadays it seems like if you don't get straight in at no. 1, you'll never get there..


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    #8
    thedrowner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭thedrowner


    hmmm....most people listen to chart stuff and are quite happy listening to chart stuff so whats the harm in that? It doesnt really bother me anyway coz it doesnt change what i listen to.


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    #9
    Kali
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭Kali


    Originally posted by daveirl
    I do remember seeing a single in the Irish charts once before it was actually released so I decided they just made up numbers!

    pre-ordered sales count... same with albums/dvds etc.


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    #10
    deco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 620 ✭✭✭deco


    Christ no...

    To get into the charts, esp. in the UK, you have to have the backing of fairly major record labels.

    Without it, nothing like that gets in the charts.


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    #11
    IrishUnsinged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭IrishUnsinged


    There's a lot of points raised on this so I will go thru them.

    Lots of 'real' bands don't think there is any point in trying to get in the charts as they are seen as easily manipulated - and they are. It just takes a little bit of inside info and some time and money, However, we think that we can change that if we make hundreds more independent record stores (where the owner/manager has a closer relationship with music, especially locally) listed as chart stores. This way, the logistics - and therefore the cost - of manipulation would make it more expensive. It won't stop it, but it might help.

    The charts are NOT transparent. Tell me how many singles the current number one and the current number 40 sold? It's difficult to find out. Tell me how the numbers were counted and how many were ignored? It's hard to fnd that too. Tell me the count rules? And there are more, such as how many multiple purchases counted or were ignored... and so on.

    Who cares about singles? Well, IMRO do. Radio stations do. They playlist charted singles. A single in the top ten is guaranteed to be aired a certain number of times. Each time it is played, money goes to the artist. If we can get independent, local, and/or new artists to chart, they get paid for their plays and can then invest in their sound.

    Record Companies are not the only ones bulk buying. New bands do it too, as they feel they have to in order to have a chance of competing. There are rules for disregarding bulk buys but they can be overcome. One way appears to be advanced orders which we think should be disregarded or at least identified by a customer/serial number of some sort.

    Most people may be happy to lsiten to chart stuff but that's like saying they have no choice as they just listen to what the major companies tell them to listen to. Our argument is that they would change their habits (and maybe even buy more new stuff) if they got to hear about it. After all, how can customers knwo what to buy unless they hear it somewhere (usually). This is why it would be fairer if the charts were fairer - people would hear more of the stuff that the more dedicated 'real' music fan hears.

    Recently, two of the bands featured on IrishUnsigned.com got into the charts. Thin Ice three weeks back and Sutras this week. Just for the sake of information, both of them sold les than 1000 copies. In some weeks, 200 sales will get you in the top 40. 600 will get you in the top 20 *therefore on the radio, mking money) and 1000 will make it top ten, meaning the investment in it could actually be returned from licensed airplay. That has to be good for bands and for the integrity of the industry as a whole.

    Of the bands you know, there are probably plenty of them who could sell 300 or 400 singles if theyn tried. They would get into the charts, get more recognition, get some money, get new fans, sell more CDs, get higher in the charts, make more money... etc etc etc.

    Ask this: Why do record companies want to get their new creation in the charts? It's not always to sell an album - some of them will never even make an album! It's often to get back their investment as soon as possible and this would be helped by getting airplay and then getting more customers who hear it on the radio.

    Sorry this is so long but it is close to our idealogical effort to make the industry better for all musicians (of ANY genre). As I said, if you know any record shop owners, what have they got to lose? They can help to pioneer a fair chart (a novelty in the music industry). In the UK the chart rules have been changed to include radioplay and digital (accredited) downloads so the ned to get on radio (and therefore into the charts initially) is greater.

    Be part of making the charts a fairer place for all musicians.

    Rant over!


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