No2Nice man Justin Barrett and the Neo-Nazi right wingers

Dustaz

Firstly, i have no idea which way im going to vote. Dahamsta summed up perfectly what i feel on the matter. I dont feel i understand the issues enough to make an informed choice at the moment. This however is not an invitation to try to sway me to any yes/no zealots.

The topic at the top of the page is about Justin Barret though. The man is at worst a nazi and at best a complete moron with a taste for self promotion. Ive ignored him and his type for the last few years and his current predicament would amuse me greatly, if it wasnt for the fact that its obvious he holds at least some sway with certain sections of society.

Whether fianna fail made the info available or not, I find it hard to see this as a smear campaign. He attended a neo-nazi rally. Twice. Hes not that stupid that he didnt realise this and he went back a second time. If someone is that stupid, then they deserve what they get in the press. Youth Defence and Justin Barrett have proved themselves to be indefensible and are just proving it again.

Again though, i prefer to make up my mind based on the issues involved. Both sides contain unsavory members. The most corrupt political party in the history of the state are telling me to vote yes, while neo nazis are telling me to vote no. Neither of those two factions would hold much sway with me to be honest.

Originally posted by Cork

This treaty is mutton dressed as lamb. My main problem is that the council of ministers is not accountable. This treaty is no "treaty of Rome" for the applicant countries.

I don't believe Bertie on the Rapid Reaction force. But I think the big winners in Ireland after this vote will be SF & the Greens.

How exactly are the council of ministers not accountable?
They are elected mp's.
Why do you not believe Bertie on the Rapid reaction Force?
What specifically has he said or done in relation to this that you do not believe?
From the Seville declaration:

In line with it's traditional policy of military neutrality, Ireland is not bound by any mutual defence committment. Nor is Ireland party to any plans to develop a European Army.Indeed the Nice European council recognised that the development of the Unions capacity to conduct humanitarian and crisis management tasks does not involve the establishment of a European Army.

mm

Bateman

>I don't believe Bertie on the Rapid Reaction force. But I think the big winners in Ireland after this vote will be SF & the Greens

---

I'm not sure, if we get a No, I can't see any one group taking much credit, it seems to be too disparate, likewise if we get Yes, I don't see how the Greens or SF can gain cred. Apart from a perceived lack of honesty on the part of the Yes parties, by which people might be turned off politics altogether rather than switch allegiances.

roxy

Originally posted by DeVore



This stinks of dirty tricks. They wait till now and then pull out this sort of political journalism.... you have to question the timing.

For shame Irish Times, I expected better.


I've yet to make up my mind but this sort of thing really makes me think they are desperate and havent a logical argument for a YES vote.

I've yet to hear anything from the YES camp that isnt a threat or a vague FUD scare story.

DeV.

This makes me angry. Quite quite angry.

My brother co-wrote the original article in last Friday's Irish Times and there a few things which should be made clear, DeVore, as you seem to be, hang on, you ARE implying that my brother is not reporting objectively and that he's putting a spin on the issue.

First, the background as it actually happened. The whole thing came to the attention of the IT when deaglan de breandun was going about writing a profile of justin barrett as leader of the No to Nice campaign. He rang Barrett to speak to him on the campaign and barret said something like Oh I suppose you're ringing about the neo-nazi allegations. (not an exact quote but he basically, unwittingly, put de breandun on to the story) The journalist replied truthfully that No, he didn't know what Barrett was talking about and Barrett suddenly realised that he had made a silly move. The first display of idiocy by Barrett.

So they looked into it and my brother got on the case in berlin. He got footage of the rally (the 'meeting' as Barrett referred to it). it was used on the news to show the formation and setup of the rally. sorry, meeting.

My brother spoke to Barrett on thursday when he was writing the story. Barrett was annoyed at the attention and told my brother, without any legal grounding, that he'd see him in the high court. also, on friday, in a radio interview he claimed that the quotes used in the article were made up. That's a false allegation as he had given the quotes to my brother directly. The man is a twit who doesn't realise the gravity of the wild allegations that he makes.

So DeVore, it is not a fecking dirty political trick and it really annoys me that you too are accusing my brother and deaglan de breandun of shoddy journalism. My brother reported the facts objectively. He has no allegiance to either side of the Nice Campaign. He won't even be voting because he lives in Berlin. I realise I sound like a definite Yes voter myself but the truth is I haven't fully decided.

As for your remark about the timing. As I said earlier, it was Barrett himself that made it national news by offering the information to a journalist who was actually looking for other information as he was writing a simple, inoffensive profile of Barrett. It ws thought tha it would be interesting to get the background on the campaign leaders in the run-up to the referendum. So it wasn't a tactical move and that should be made clear. It's Barrett's fault that the timing worked out that way.


I just don't like false accusations towards my brother or anyone else for that matter and they seem to be rife in the last few days.


No hard feelings; just getting that off my chest.

Respect the family yadda yadda

Roxy

Slutmonkey57b

Originally posted by Typedef
You are entitled to your opinion Slutmonkey57b, though me saying that and being a No voter probably bursts your right wing conspiracy bubble to bits.

I'm sorry if that opinion doesn't fit into your tert little box that all No voters are in fact Neo-Nazi right wing conspirators.
Please feel free to call me and anyone else who votes like me a Nazi, Terrorist, right wing Catholic zealot or any other arbitrary smear that springs to mind, god forbid you would have to address the issues raised by the No side elsewise.

Kind Regards
Typedef.[/i]

You might want to re-read the post there Antsy Pants... I wasn't talking about Voters, or the treaty, or the debate - I was talking about the POSTERS that are displayed all over the city at the moment, featuring a man with a gun to his head. The point of the post was:

A group of people got themselves together, including Sinn Fein, and put up these posters. Really. Was that clever? Reminding people "oh by the way the terrorist conspirators would like you to vote no. Here's what they usually get up to with people who don't do what they want."

Obviously the point of the poster was to say "don't let the government hold you to ransom and force you to vote Yes", but the actual message now reads: "Vote no or you'll get a six pack courtesy of Martin Ferris".

And Incidentally, I have yet to see any sort of issues raised by either side other than "Don't listen to the other side! They're evil!" I'm voting "only a moron votes in an Ireland, let the EU impose what they want they know better than our lot anyway", but of course, i'm not stupid enough to vote.

Typedef

Originally posted by Slutmonkey57b
You might want to re-read the post there Antsy Pants...

Good dig yourself deeper, you aren't doing the No side any favours by doing that.

Meh

Originally posted by Slutmonkey57b
I wasn't talking about Voters, or the treaty, or the debate - I was talking about the POSTERS that are displayed all over the city at the moment, featuring a man with a gun to his head. The point of the post was:

A group of people got themselves together, including Sinn Fein, and put up these posters.

Uh, the "gun to head" posters are from the No2Nice group, which does not include Sinn Fein. SF have their own posters up.

Slutmonkey57b

Originally posted by Typedef
Good dig yourself deeper, you aren't doing the No side any favours by doing that.

Answer the point: were the posters really a good idea? Even before Barrett was discovered at neo-nazi rallies?

*silence*


*whistle*

*drums fingers*

What's that? No answer?

And again, I fail to see any response to "let the EU impose what they want", either. If the ECB had been allowed to set our budget 2 years ago, we wouldn't have had the embarrasing deficit we do now, along with post election muddles. (The ECB slapped McCreevy on the wrist twice over public spending)

Slutmonkey57b

Guess what just dropped through my door - a little leaflet with "no 2 nice" at the top.

Guess who's smiling face is at the bottom telling me to "defend democracy".


Guess.

Go on.

Oh all right - it's Gerry "defender of democracy" Adams.

Yes, Gerry "I should be allowed to run a spy ring in parliament" Adams.

Gerry "Support the Good Friday agreement - except the bits about disbanding the IRA and not doing punishment beatings on those who don't do what we tell them." Adams

Gerry "It's all David Trimble's fault we're breaking the agreement" Adams.

With "No 2 Nice" at the top of the leaflet. So clearly I was wrong earlier.