Have the Barrett revelations made up your mind on how to vote on Saturday?

PH01

Have the revelations about Justin Barretts links with far-right groups changed your mind on how you are going to vote next Saturday?

Dustaz

Hasnt swayed me with relation to the Nice treaty. Id be suprised if anyone actually let it.

bertiebowl

I was always gonna vote YES -

But it didn't surprise me too much when those No 2 Nice chappies were linked with Nazis........

We could be witnessing the birth of Ireland's far right ya know

sceptre

Originally posted by bertiebowl
We could be witnessing the birth of Ireland's far right ya know

It's entirely possible, though I'd like to think that it won't happen

(and obviously I'm waiting for some idiot to say either "hehe, won't be the first, remember those blueshirts" or "far right? With the way those mafia FFers are running the country we already elected them")

Typedef

Originally posted by bertiebowl

But it didn't surprise me too much when those No 2 Nice chappies were linked with Nazis........

Similarly were you surprised when the Former Minister for Foreign affairs was found to be corrupt or the man who was running the government's pro-Nice campaign was similarly found to have been corrupt and had to resign from the campaign?

With Fianna Fial's history of corruption and allegations floating around for years about Fianna Fial's corruption I most certainly wasn't surprised.

Still I wouldn't stoop to labeling the entire Fianna Fial party as corrupt, just the Former Minister for foreign affairs and the former director of the Government's yes to Nice Campaign.

Xterminator

Originally posted by Typedef
Similarly were you surprised when the Former Minister for Foreign affairs was found to be corrupt or the man who was running the government's pro-Nice campaign was similarly found to have been corrupt and had to resign from the campaign?

With Fianna Fial's history of corruption and allegations floating around for years about Fianna Fial's corruption I most certainly wasn't surprised.

Still I wouldn't stoop to labeling the entire Fianna Fial party as corrupt, just the Former Minister for foreign affairs and the former director of the Government's yes to Nice Campaign.

Anyone who paid attentioon to the Flood ribunal would not be suprised about the 2 individuals concerned.

However there have been a suprisingly large no of 'extremeists' attaching themselves and there propaganda to the no side of the debate.

Apart from Mr Barret, we had the scare story that ireland would be swamped with refugees if the country voted yes.
Anyone who is reasoned will admit thios is unfounded.

There was also the story circulated that to vote yes, ireland would become part of Nato, whcih s obviously untrue too. (To all except the nutters that is.)

Now while there have been disputed facts on both sides, the 'extremist' seem to have thrown there hat in with the no side. ( Doing the no side more damage than good, i'm sure).

This should in no way reflect on the measured No campaigners like John o' Gormley , but in much the same way as the perception of FF is that they cant be trusted to govern alone because of the bad apples, the perception of the no side will be tainted in the eyes of the public.

Seeing as you are using the very example of FF being tainted by association (perhaps not in your eyes, but tainted nonetheless), then I guess you will accept the No side is also tainted by association.

X

PH01

Originally posted by bertiebowl
We could be witnessing the birth of Ireland's far right ya know

Interesting topic Bertie.
But I wouldn't call it the "birth of Ireland's Far-right" (I "birth" pun associated with 'Youth Defence') more a re-birth.
Wasn't there a certain section of our society who went off to Spain to fight with Franco during the Civil War there? They're still around you know, even since then.

But what should concern us more is the growth of the far-right in Europe.

Typedef

Originally posted by PH01
Wasn't there a certain section of our society who went off to Spain to fight with Franco during the Civil War there?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPirish.htm
Funnily enough those guys were sent there by none other then Eion O'Duffy, and as we everyone is I'm sure is aware Fine Gael is identafiable with the Blue shirts and is also the most identifably pro-Europe party.

That about blows that argument apart.

damn typos

ReefBreak

We could be witnessing the birth of Ireland's far right ya know

At the moment, the nearest thing we have to the far-right is your more "militant" Sinn Fein voter. You know the type: Celtic-shirt-wearing, rebel-song-singing, skanger. Yes, I know that Sinn Fein assumes itself to be far-left marxist organisation, but anyone believing that these types will be welcoming African immigrants to inner city or working-class estates (or even the Irish bible-belt in North Kerry) is sadly mistaken. In fact, one thing that Sinn Féin and the far-right have in common is their fiercely ultra-nationalistic tendancies and the fact that they are/were willing to murder people to achieve their aims.

Shazbat

Originally posted by bertiebowl
I was always gonna vote YES -

But it didn't surprise me too much when those No 2 Nice chappies were linked with Nazis........

We could be witnessing the birth of Ireland's far right ya know

Oh please....

b20uvkft6m5xwg

P.o.O.->
Mr Mara was found to be uncoperative not corrupt.

Typedef

Originally posted by ReefBreak
In fact, one thing that Sinn Féin and the far-right have in common is their fiercely ultra-nationalistic tendancies and the fact that they are/were willing to murder people to achieve their aims.

So ReefBreak, can you actually provide evidence of 'Far right' groups murdering people in Ireland?

Thought not. Lets make it easier, can you provide evidence of the existance of 'Far right' groups in Ireland, say like the Combat 18 or the like?

'Far right groups' - the mind boggles.

Elmo

While Mr. Justin Barette is a Gob****e of the highest porportions he does not represent my political views when he specks at Nazi porceeding. Mr. Barette could be a corupt TD and he still would not have many of the same views I have.

I will Still vote No. Regardless.

1. Why Are we not going to vote again on The Council Of Rome and the Cor. Pun. because those two were passed and the government are happy that only 35% of the electorate voted on them.

2. It Creates an Empire where Smaller countries like ourselfs have no power and influence. We can see that now because the Government was not able in an way to renegotiate another treaty with favourable terms which for both Ireland And other smaller nations

3. No other country had a ref.

4. 750 men are to be given to the rapid reaction force which The government said would not happen

5. Scare tatics of the Opposition and The government in relation to Mr. Barette. Who Does not represent me when he goes to Nazi meetings.

Victor

I think (not sure, could have been John Gormley) it was Ruairi Quinn passed the comment on how some of the no posters are Red, Black and White (the colours of the Nazi Germany flag), but then again so are lots of Labour posters.

Originally posted by PH01
Wasn't there a certain section of our society who went off to Spain to fight with Franco during the Civil War there? They're still around you know, even since then. But what should concern us more is the growth of the far-right in Europe.

This was largely on a pro-Catholic / anti-socialist basis. I'm not sure how many went as Fascists, but I suspect few.

Of course "good old honest to goodness" :rolleyes: Aryan Nation / Nazi Party / Ku Klux Klan members are very much as anti-Catholic as they are anti-Jewish or anti-Moslem.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Victor
Red, Black and White (the colours of the Nazi Germany flag)

Actually, Red, Black and White predated the National Socialist flag and were used by both the imperial and republican governments.

I really don’t see a major connection other than it being an eye-catching combination of colours. Whoever made this observation was an idiot.

This was largely on a pro-Catholic / anti-socialist basis. I'm not sure how many went as Fascists, but I suspect few.

I think Eoin O'Duffy would disagree. As would the propaganda that the Germans would broadcast to Ireland via their Irland Redaktion service.

To blanket those who fought for Franco as not being Fascist would be a little glib - but the inclusion of your "I suspect" disclaimer, gives away that you know that

Of course "good old honest to goodness" :rolleyes: Aryan Nation / Nazi Party / Ku Klux Klan members are very much as anti-Catholic as they are anti-Jewish or anti-Moslem.

Racist groups actually can never make up their minds. The Ku Klux Klan naturally tends to be anti-Catholic, due to its Masonic background. At the same time, other groups, such as Aryan Unity, are remarkably pro-Catholicism (especially with regard to it’s pro-race policies on birth control).

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Typedef
So ReefBreak, can you actually provide evidence of 'Far right' groups murdering people in Ireland?

Thought not. Lets make it easier, can you provide evidence of the existance of 'Far right' groups in Ireland, say like the Combat 18 or the like?

'Far right groups' - the mind boggles.

Read my post again Typedef: "The nearest thing we have to the far-right is your more "militant" Sinn Fein voter...One thing that Sinn Féin and the far-right have in common...". I wasn't referring to Far-right groups in Ireland, I was referring to Far-Right groups in general, in Europe, or wherever. So, to repeat: one thing that Sinn Féin and the far-right in Europe have in common is their fiercely ultra-nationalistic tendancies and the fact that they are, or were, willing to murder people to achieve their aims. If you want evidence of Far Right groups murdering people, I'll be happy to oblige. So, yes, the mind does boggle.

Elmo

sinn fein are far left at least thats how they consider themselfes

the unionist are far right and nationalist (Toward britian) they march with the orange order which only allows portestant men to join their little group.

of the point but anyway

The Corinthian

Sinn Fein are a Nationalist party.

Sinn Fein are a Socialist party.

Do the math.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Elmo
the unionist are far right and nationalist (Toward britian) they march with the orange order which only allows portestant men to join their little group.

That's because the Orange Order is a Masonic orginization.

However, many Unionist groups do have strong links with the far right in Britain.

That's what makes it all hilarious. Two groups perpetuate the conflict in Northern Ireland - each as Nazi than the other, despite protestations to the contrary.

Cork

posted quote by Victor
Red, Black and White (the colours of the Nazi Germany flag). [/B]

It was the Germans who supported the Nazis.

So too did some French - when France was occuppied.

Justin Barrett campaigned with both FG and Labour during the abortion debate.

He debated with Nora Owen & Lis Macmanus on the Late Late show.

Their criticisims of him are very hollow.

There is nothing in this treaty for Ireland. The whole Justin Barrett thing is a red herring. Don't be fooled by spin.

PH01

Originally posted by Cork
There is nothing in this treaty for Ireland. The whole Justin Barrett thing is a red herring. Don't be fooled by spin.

How do you reckon that? Are you saying that Barrett's links with Far-right nazis are't true?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by PH01
How do you reckon that? Are you saying that Barrett's links with Far-right nazis are't true?

I think he's saying that they are irelevant - which is a fair point.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
The whole Justin Barrett thing is a red herring. Don't be fooled by spin.

So its ok for you to say "Vote No to give IBEC / FF / Whoever a bloody nose", but when its "Vote Yes to give Barrett a bloody nose" its spin we should disregard?

I agree - we should disregard spin, but I would rather see that logic applied unilaterally rather than just to suit your own argument.

jc

Elmo

So its ok for you to say "Vote No to give IBEC / FF / Whoever a bloody nose"

Who has done this?

Meh

Originally posted by Elmo
Who has done this?

Cork

Elmo

I don't think that Cork has as much infulence lets say as the Yes Lobby. (And the Newspapers that report these things, Unless cork is some madman set upon declaring a federal republic of Cork??????)

I am looking to see where the No side have put a bad spin on the Yes Side (i.e the leaders involved). And where has it been reported in the Newspapers. Also there are many Bad things that the No Voters could say about the Yes Leaders, but the no Lobby has, to my knowledge, not gone and done this.