Lets Take This Country By The Scruff Of The Neck (a New Political Party?)-please Read

damien_gill

Most who will read this may laugh and say "yeah right how are you gonna do that"

The answer will be I dont know but I'm gonna ****ing try something.

I'm looking for people who are;

1: not afraid of ridicule
2: not afraid to speak exactly wot they want to in public
3: want this country to be so much better
4: want to take on th might that is FIANNA FAIL
5: is generally unhappy with the way that our government is being run.

The reason is simple. I want everyones help right now to start getting a proper opposition together now in time for the next general elections.

YES THATS RIGHT I WANNA GET PEOPLE TOGETHER TO FORM A POLITICAL PARTY AND FURTHER MORE ONE THATS ACTUALLY FOR THE PEOPLE RUN BY THE PEOPLE

So what do you all say? We moan all the time but we never do anything about it. Well now is your chance and if you dont do anything well then you dont have the right to moan.

Whatever, your beliefs please e-mail me, PM me, post here do whatever but get in contact with me.

Also, all ideas regarding policies on all different areas would be gratefully recieved.

COME ON PEOPLE NOW IS THE TIME WE CANNOT AFFORD TO WAIT ANY LONGER THAN WE HAVE. ENOUGH IS ****ING ENOUGH!

daveirl

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bonkey

Originally posted by damien_gill
4: want to take on th might that is FIANNA FAIL
...
The reason is simple. I want everyones help right now to start getting a proper opposition together now in time for the next general elections.

Straight away, this smacks of an "anti-FF" party, rather than a party set up for its own goals and ideals. I mean - what the hell is a "proper opposition"??? Something that opposes FF at every step? Something that opposes FF only when they happen to disagree? Surely we dont benefit from the former, and every opposition party in existence already does the latter.

What does your party stand for? What are its visions for the nation?

You cant seriously expect to get anywhere with a party who doesnt show leadership and vision. "For the people, by the people" is all well and good as a catch phrase, but its doesnt mean much in real terms.

Are you saying that your party will basically support whatever the public want to see? Public want no taxes at all, ever...so your party will go for this? Public want criminal X taken out and shot for the atrocities he/she has committed, so your party will go for this? Public change their mind every few months on issues, so you'll back them on this?

The public want to be told what you stand for. If you say "whatever you want", you get nowhere. When you have two people standing up beside you and you say this to both of them, despite them disagreeing with each other, you get nowhere.

Ultimately, politics work the other way round. You state what you're for, and the people who agree with this stance vote for you. Yes, cronyism doesnt work like this, but you cant beat cronyism - these people are voting for reasons you cannot compete with.

jc

Bard

Bonkey for party leader!

gandalf

To be honest Mr. Gill has guessed exactly what I've being thinking the last few weeks. If you actually examine all the political parties in Ireland very little actually differenciates them.

What is needed is a party that have a set of ideals that are not based on the latest MRBI opinion poll.

I personally would be positive towards looking at setting a new party up. What would be needed is a set of goals that this party would want to achieve and a set of definate values that they represent.

I'm off to consider this further, maybe we could talk this over a few drinks at the next Boards beer.

Gandalf.

bonkey

Originally posted by gandalf
To be honest Mr. Gill has guessed exactly what I've being thinking the last few weeks. If you actually examine all the political parties in Ireland very little actually differenciates them.

I assume you mean "all the successful parties" there, or "all the parties in the Dail"?

What is needed is a party that have a set of ideals that are not based on the latest MRBI opinion poll.

There have been, and I'm sure still are, plenty of them around. Only they often find that there is limited support to be gotten, so they end up small scale, contest a constituency or two and typically lose.

The only notable exception to this in Ireland in the past decade or so that I can think of is the Green Party

At the end of the day, people will vote for someone who agrees with their opinion. People's opinions change. Is it wrong for a government party to try and adapt its workings to continue to keep the people happy?

Sure, it means they are somewhat inconstant, and it also means that the opposition must lean towards the policies of the leading party (hence resulting in the lack of significant difference in major Irish parties).

Lets say that you guys do form a party. And you contest your first constituency. And whilst contesting it, your research shows that your stance on issue A will probably cost you a seat.

You have two choices. Compromise your stance on issue A, and stand a realistic chance of getting elected, or hold true to your stance, fail to get elected, and not be in a position to do anything about this stance you took.

Yes, its slightly contrived, but the simple fact is that these types of either/or questions are the lifeblood of politics. In order to get anything done, you must agree to compromise on other positions.

This, coupled with the ever-changing realities of modern economics, and countless other factors, mean that it is virtually impossible for any party to get it right, to remain true to their word, and to keep the people happy. Often, its a choice of one of the three. Sometimes they cant achieve any. Such is life.

The other major complaint is that politics in Ireland is too "dirty". Unfortunately, its quite rare to find a nation where this is not considered to be the case. Are they all suffering from the simple lack of a new party who's honest and clean?

I admire the sentiment of wanting to improve Irish politics, but I'm completely unconvinced that a new political party is necessarily the best way to achieve it, or even try to achieve it.

Perhaps it is. Maybe you guys are completely right. However, I just think that the righteousness of idealsim, while great, doesnt work very well in the real world.

jc

damien_gill

First of I don't envision an anti FF party. In my opinion FF stand for all that is wrong and rotten in Irish politics today.

I haven't thought about the way I envision this party.

All I know so far is that it's time for some serious change.

This party wont have the catchphrase "for the people by the people" that is one thing I do envision IT WILL BE A PARTY FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE

I'm still thinking it through touroghly so all help and suggestions/opinions will as they are now be gracefully recieved.

Bard

Originally posted by gandalf

I'm off to consider this further, maybe we could talk this over a few drinks at the next Boards beer.

Gandalf.

Intelligent discussion at a boards beer? ...

Wow...! I may go yet!

DadaKopf

We're not a culture that's receptive to new political parties but if the last election is anything to go by, this is beginning to change.

However, starting up a political party is a mammoth undertaking but it's not impossible. If you're serious about this, the first thing to do would be to talk to politicians, particularly some of our independents. Not because of ideology but because they know about the reality of contesting the large political machines.

The most important thing is to work out exactly what you stand for. What do you believe in? What you think has gone wrong and how you're going to fix it. How are you going to make people's lives better? This takes research, enthusiasm, effort and time.

If you're thinking of starting up a party rather than a single-issue pressure group, you'll have to assemble a group of people who specialise in and monitor specific policy areas. If anyone is going to take you seriously, you'll have to be on top of things.

Don't get ahead of yourself. Why not organise regular meetings with like-minded people, debate your ideas and start off being a pressure group or community organisation. Contribute to society and you'll win their support.

I'd be interested in attending meetings if you ever hold them. Why don't you tell us a little more about your idea and where you're coming from.

damien_gill

You see theres one drawback in trying to get this off the ground.

I'm only 20 and how many people do you know who would take a 20yr old seriously?

When I was 16 I decided I was gonna do it then but again who'd listen to a 16 yr old. I'll post up the URL of a load of policies that I wrote all by my wee self a long time ago.

I just have to put em on the net first they'll be up tomorrow at some stage

dahamsta

I've often thought about this myself, although not seriously, obviously. After the last general election, I decided I was going to join a political party, but I couldn't decide which one to join. Which annoys me, because if I was in the UK, I'd be a member of the Lib Dems before you could say "Tony lost the plot". Bring the lib dems over here, that's what I say*.

adam

* Humour. It would be nice if there was an Irish equivalent though.

Cork

You have lots of independents in Ireland.

People have a choice in Ireland:

FF or FG, Labour, Greens, SF + independants

A new party would be just more coalition cannon fodder.

The Saint

I for one would like to see a new party. I think the usual ones are old and tired. FG's policy seems to be "whatever FF do we are against" Its would be nice to see partys support each other on policies that are clearly right instead of opposing it just for the sake of putting down the opposition. I reckon the Mods here could help you out with their infinite wisdom (dont get big heads lads). I too have thought about joining some political party but there isnt any viable option at the moment. As someone said before, start meetings, get people involved who would actually make a positive contribution but you also need to avoid enroling people who want to do it for a laugh or for their own ends. I reckon go for it. If I like your policies I'll vote for you or even join you.

damien_gill

This is the thing people I don't want people to have a look at my policies and decide.

When I put up these policies later I want you to imagine you are in this party and tell me what YOU think should be changed you know what I mean?

All I intend these policies to be is nothing more than a starting point. They are very rough around the edges and some are very strongly worded due to my beliefs at the time. And I would greatly appreciate any help that any of you could offer.

Gordon

I think I know where you're at Damien, you want a political party that has new ideas that are better for the people than existing ones. You don't have many yourself but you are willing to let underlings do all the creating ideas themselves (the cabinet if you like) and you will then be the filter to judge whether yay or nay they will be incorporated into the party agenda.

Basically you want people to create the rules and you will watch over them steering them in "the right direction". Ahh you'll go far in politics, come in and have a cigar!

Turnip

Originally posted by bonkey

There have been, and I'm sure still are, plenty of them around. Only they often find that there is limited support to be gotten, so they end up small scale, contest a constituency or two and typically lose.

The only notable exception to this in Ireland in the past decade or so that I can think of is the Green Party

jc

The Green Party and it's supporters are a bunch of left wing cranks who are even more crazy than the regular left wing. Do they spout anti-american anti-business propaganda at every opportunity? Yes. Are they a credible party with workable policies? No. Do they still believe the world is run by giant lizards? Probably.

bonkey

Originally posted by Turnip
The Green Party and it's supporters are a bunch of left wing cranks who are <rant deleted>

Did I once say that I supported or admired them?

I stated that they are the only party I know of who have emerged from obscurity in recent years.

They have had some degree of success across more than one election, and are most definitely not a run-of-the-mill "same as the rest" party.

They stand for a set of ideals, and more than most parties, appear to actually stick to these rather than pampering to popular belief.

About the only thing I can say in favour of your ranting is that it shows some of the problems any party will face, if they actually stand for ideals rather than currying popular sentiment. The problem being derision from anyone like you who seems to think "I disagree with them, therefore they and their supporters are beneath contempt".

jc

Turnip

Originally posted by bonkey
Did I once say that I supported or admired them?

I stated that they are the only party I know of who have emerged from obscurity in recent years.

They have had some degree of success across more than one election, and are most definitely not a run-of-the-mill "same as the rest" party.
jc

What about the PD's? There's a very new party and they're doing quite nicely.

The Green Party's "ideals" are not remotely realistic in the globalised economy and appeal to a certain type of character who thinks with the heart rather than the head.

daveirl

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gandalf

Originally posted by Turnip
What about the PD's? There's a very new party and they're doing quite nicely.

LOL are you serious Mini FF a new party they should do the country a favour and rejoin their dodgy parent and get it over with.

Personally I think a Irish format of the Lib Dems would be a welcome edition and would garner quite a bit of support. There is no way btw the PD's can be compaired to the Libs Dems in the UK. The Lib Dems for one have more support

Gandalf.

DadaKopf

I like the Lib Dems and I like the Guardian newspaper. But a party like the Lib Dems and a paper like the Guardian just won't work in Ireland. The party system and political viewpoints are discernably different. There's no Irish comparison to the Lib Dems.

For one, the Lib Dems exist as a result of England's first-past-the-post system - they're there because they're neither Labour nor Conservative. Our voting system produced more effective parties. I think they're still unsure about their policies because the British electorate hasn't given them a chance to prove themselves but I can see them becoming the new opposition in time to come.

The Saint

Why doesnt everyone on the boards storm the Dail and sieze power. Everyman for himself. When are we going to see your parties policies?

damien_gill

OK I was gonna put them up last night but i didn't finish work till nine so I was knackered.

When I did the policies I did it in Frontpage so I gotta change that has well so that it will work with my current webspace.

Apologies to all I promise they will posted up on the net by tomorrow and I'll give you all the URL then.

Biffa Bacon

Fair play to you Damien for having the guts to at least try something like this - don't listen to the small-minded naysayers. Every single politician in this State is useless and we need to get rid of them. The time is ripe for a revolution that will wash away the old guard, if only anyone is willing to grasp the opportunity. The goal of any new party should be to achieve an overall majority at the next election.

For what it's worth, here are my policy proposals:

Crime - violent criminals to be enslaved for a period of time proportional to the severity of their offence. Non-violent criminals to suffer fines rather than imprisonment. Rapists, murderers and paedophiles to be locked up for life, i.e. until they are dead.

Drugs – all drugs to be legalized. However, it would be an offence to consume them in a public place. All advertising of drugs would be banned. Age limit of 18 to purchase them. Addicts to be forced into cold turkey by the state.

Road safety – anyone committing a traffic violation to have their car confiscated for a length of time proportionate to the severity of the offence. Their driver’s licence would also be confiscated. And anyone wishing to buy a car would have to produce a valid driver’s licence. Also massive fines and/or enslavement for those putting lives at risk by their driving.

Abortion – current constitutional amendment (whatever it is) to be revoked and replaced with one saying that nothing in the Constitution could be interpreted as guaranteeing the right to an abortion. Then legislate so as to outlaw abortion in all circumstances except where there is a direct threat to the life of the mother. All health boards to be forbidden to pay for abortions abroad. Experimentation on embryos to be banned. IVF treatment to be banned.

Oireachtas reform – Dáil to be cut to about 50 members, probably less. Members to be elected by party lists (e.g. in a Dáil of 50 members, any party getting say 20% of the popular vote would be allocated 10 seats, which would then go to the top ten people on that party’s “list”). Seanad to have all its legislative powers revoked, it would instead become an oversight committee supervising all aspects of the State. The Seanad would have the right to call any public servant, e.g. judges, ministers, civil servants, Garda Commissioners etc. to explain their actions before the Seanad. Any new legislation would have to be put before the Seanad three months before it could be passed into law so as members could discuss it and interview the responsible government ministers. The Seanad could only make recommendations, it would have no powers to delay or alter legislation. Seanad members to be appointed by the President.

Equaltiy – Equality Authority to be abolished. All equality legislation to be revoked.

Compensation culture – the principle of receiving monetary compensation over and above loss of earnings and medical expenses to be abolished.

Education – third level fees to be reintroduced.

If I think of anything else I’ll post it up later.

DadaKopf

Now you're just looking for trouble.

Sand

Crime, Drugs, Road safety, Compensation culture, Education

Id vote for that. Except the education part- introduce fees for arts courses (complete waste of time ), leave economically useful degrees ( Science, engineering, finanance, etc etc ) open so as to encourage participation in these vital courses.

Abortion

Nope - Not going into alliance with the catholic church on that one.

Oireachtas reform

Youd get a system where politicians would try to suck up to their party more than to the people - dunno if thats attractive.

Equaltiy

All of it? It just needs to have the foolish aspects of it taken out.

Dunno if Id vote the Catholic Economic Zero Tolerance Refrom Party, the Economic Zero Tolerance Reform Party could be a winner in todays Ireland though

Mr White

I like Biffa Bacon's proposals.Traffic reform should include some measure for weeding out the accident prone,eg,IQ tests.There's a correlation between low intelligence and accident-proneness.This might be at the licensing stage,or later after accidents with the(surviving)parties being tested for intelligence to see who's at fault,then drawing the necessary conclusions.Driving is a privilege,not a right.

Getting rid of the Equality authority is a progressive idea.Equality today is just an excuse for preferential treatment for women or ethnic minorities;it's always targeted against some imagined discriminators,like men or white Irish in their own country,who then end up being discriminated against.

Above all,there has to be a nationalist aspect to any new party.And by that I don't mean left-nationalism,which is an imposter.

Turnip

Originally posted by gandalf
LOL are you serious Mini FF a new party they should do the country a favour and rejoin their dodgy parent and get it over with.

Gandalf.

FF is a centre left party essentially trying to now model itself on New Labour. The PD's are conservatives who advocate Thatcherite/American social and economic policies, although they're still handicapped by the stupid residue of Irish leftism. We need to take some lessons from the Tories about how to deal with unions.

I expect FG to collapse soon and its more competent sensible members will defect to the PD's, maybe some to Labour.

daveirl

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sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
If they can't be compared policy wise how come they are both members of the same pan-European organisations??

Semi-guess, but I'd imagine the PDs are part of that grouping as they couldn't be part of the same one as either FF or FG and there weren't all that many left.

daveirl

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