ESAT bashers beware!

milltown

Two of the main discussion points from the ESAT announcement thread seems to be that 256k is not fast enough and €50/60 is too expensive. There have also been numerous posts over the past few weeks quoting surveys that say Irish people are not interested in the internet/flat rate/broadband.
A few short weeks ago the champagne was being opened when UTVip announced what was basically a step back from the original Surf No Limits offer, a time limited off-peak only subscription service for €30/month, and to get this your voice calls had to be swapped over also. Eircom have come in for a fair old bashing on this site in the past but the majority of people, if they are honest, have had no problem with Eircom when their sole purpose was providing voice calls. I'll agree, they should have seen this coming and had the infrastructure in place to keep with the times but that is not the point I am making.
The announcement from ESAT is offering, or promising, an always on, unlimited internet service for about twice the price of the UTV service with a five fold increase in speed. That sounds like a bloody big improvement to me! It may not be what we've been dreaming of, but remember, when UTV made their announcement there were numerous posts asking "can we pay for two subscriptions and get 128k isdn?"
In light of the surveys suggesting that we are not interested in the internet as a nation I would suggest that as a group interested in the internet we support this initiative and register our interest, pay our money and make ESAT's venture pay off so that other companies see there is money to be made and provide competition to ESAT on the basis of cost or speed. We will be the winners in the long run.
Btw I do not work or have any dealings with ESAT but when the cards were dealt I was leaning more towards their off peak subscription service. For the moment though I'm glad I didn't go for either as I need the internet during the day. I'll see how this pans out.

Krouc

"Eircom have come in for a fair old bashing on this site in the past but the majority of people, if they are honest, have had no problem with Eircom when their sole purpose was providing voice calls."

Yeah great service. May i just put it like this:

Its just like your first car, great it carries you but when you go to carry someone else you find no back seat and its a taxi.

Eircom have been great, first country in Europe for per minute billing (1,2,3 or 4 mins for the price of five) Free line noise and options just like online air fares. If you sleep all day and call ppl in Greenland once a year for an hour while paying a subscription along with a line rental for two services that you cant be used at the same time, you can save 10% on calls to the Aran Islands. And if you get ISDN we can charge you for 4, yes four. You Net sub goes up and so does line rental!

How great it is here, listen to all the propaganda, E-hub, fast access yada yada yada....

We build BMW's here in Ireland going on all that talk while in places like Greece they build Lada's. We pay for BMW's and get a lada while they get the BMW's.

I aint having a good at you but i have seen both sides and the scales are ****ed. I worked for a Chamber of Commerce for a large town in the greater Dublin area who did a survey with all the local companies (Home grown and international) The reason? Eircom! What a shock! Gripes?

Pricing
Range of products
Uptime
Customer service

I just think its so fair, a network built with taxpayers money, now having to pay for twice.

How much is that doggie in the window? How much you got?

</rant>
Krouc

Krouc

Thanks to esat

Esat - Surf no limits
Eircom - Bills no limit

Krouc

PiE

True: we should show our interest in any broadband available.

False: we should have to pay through the nose for it.

Even UTVip is overpriced, but at least we're:

A: Paying less then we would be with eircon

B: Paying a company who seems to give a sh!t and who might actually repay us with better services than their competitors in the future.

C: Not paying a company who screwed 2000 SNL customers 18 months ago. ("Not the same company" - Yah... right. I'll believe all their promises when I see 'em.)

Saw a UTV Clicksilver advert on UTV today. Someday I'll have it... somedaaaaaaaay!

Krouc

I agree pie, we should show our interest in any broadband available.

As long as its not a suitcase full of phonebooks

Krouc

Tellox

yes but you see, the utvip thread only got so many hits because every single person that went to boards.ie saw "UTV INTRODUCES FLAT RATE PACKAGE!" ect ect, and of course, everybody has to look at this, although its actually another bundled-hours option. If the esatbt 256k thread was "EsatBT INTRODUCING 256K TRUE FLAT RATE!!" it'd probably be as popular as the utvip thread was.

so dont worry, people are still giving broadband recognition, just not as much because its not being hyped up as much as utvip was. Sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever, Im horribly overtired.

dahamsta

Hello? Are people talking about a different thread here? I just went through the thread announcing the new Esat BT DSL product, and I'm flocked if I can see a load of Esat bashers in there. I see a few people expressing concern about the price, at most five or six posts, which are thoughtfull and well-balanced. Esat bashers? And you had to start a new thread for this, even though you've already posted your "concerns" into the thread itself? Esat bashers my hole. Wake up, dolt.

adam

Cork

I was leaning more towards their off peak subscription service.

Lets be fair. Esat are no Eircom. The off peak subscription packages are pretty good. Especailly - when you don't have to change your phone service.

I think bashing ESAT serves no purpose. I too have no connection with any phone company.

VeeEmmy

I am not aware that Esat is offering ME unlimited anything, and I am not aware that Esat is offering ME 256K anything.

UTV, on the otherhand, came out with an EXISTING PRODUCT available to me when they announced it. They didn't buy full page ads telling me about the grand things they PLAN to do. Esat offered a similar but lesser package. AND I'm STILL being billed by Esat for money I do not owe them.

I'll be very pleased **IF** Esat come through with all they are promising. It can only mean improvement and benefit to us all, but I will not be giving them great pats on the back for promises, plans, and bills for money I do not owe them (nor for the nasty dismissal letter I received for being a bad SNL customer).

I also don't mind letting UTV have the money for my phone calls, NOT ONE teeny BIT! I don't see what the big problem with that is!

Esat bashers beware, indeed. I'm not a-skeered o' them!!

sax0000

Originally posted by Tizlox
yes but you see, the utvip thread only got so many hits because every single person that went to boards.ie saw "UTV INTRODUCES FLAT RATE PACKAGE!" ect ect, and of course, everybody has to look at this, although its actually another bundled-hours option. If the esatbt 256k thread was "EsatBT INTRODUCING 256K TRUE FLAT RATE!!" it'd probably be as popular as the utvip thread was.

so dont worry, people are still giving broadband recognition, just not as much because its not being hyped up as much as utvip was. Sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever, Im horribly overtired.

While the misleading subject headline obviously played a big part in the number of hits received by the topic, the company themselves (UTVip) used the topic to answer queries and provide information about their service. Making it act as a sales vehicle and helpdesk.

Contrast this with the approach of other companies who never engage in any forum and do everything possible not to promote any "flat rate" or "semi flat rate" product they might have.

sax0000

MagicBusDriver

UTVIP are a very small organisation, with very limited infrastructure in Ireland.

Esat are much bigger and are capable of bringing ADSL to places not served by Eircom.

UTVIP can NEVER do this as they do not have the money or infrastructure to consider it. They will be only ever capable of Bitstream ADSL, giving them limited control on price.

When ESAT get sufficent customers to offset the initial costs, they then will be capable of reducing price. People should judge them on this, not SNL, which is very old news now. I was among the 2000.

People need to get over SNL. It was a **** service anyway , which didnt support ISDN.

ando

256k always on is good enough for me, if esat offered it to me, I'd dive on it. Its enough for an affordable price

drjolt

Originally posted by MagicBusDriver

UTVIP can NEVER do this as they do not have the money or infrastructure to consider it. They will be only ever capable of Bitstream ADSL, giving them limited control on price.

No company will ever have the money to build a last mile infrastructure in Ireland, and so long as Eircom own the local loop, all Eircom competitors will have limited price flexibility. UTVip would have to pay for bitstream access, but would not have to pay for the infrastructure EsatBT is building.

MagicBusDriver

Th LLU charges are set at a european average.
ESATBT do not need to build the last mile as they can simply unbundle the local loops. It needs equipment in the exchange to do this.

MagicBusDriver

Originally posted by drjolt
UTVip would have to pay for bitstream access, but would not have to pay for the infrastructure EsatBT is building.

UTVIP would have difficulty equalling eircoms price using bitstream. The bitstream price is set by eircom. LLU was set by the regulator.

drjolt

Originally posted by MagicBusDriver
Th LLU charges are set at a european average.
ESATBT do not need to build the last mile as they can simply unbundle the local loops. It needs equipment in the exchange to do this.

It needs equipment in the exchanges, people to run the equipment, and presumably it has to rent the exchange space from Eircom. It does not automatically follow that EsatBT will be cheaper than UTVip.

MagicBusDriver

Economies of scale should allow a fall in price as most of ESATBT costs are fixed.

A low Bitream wholesale charge (~€30) would allow the fastest deployment of ADSL.

Eircom is unlikely to lower its bitstream charge and the regulator will not impose one.

m1ke

it's the best valued deal yet, i'd get it at the drop of a hat if they were in this area, it's normal that all the early adopters of dsl will have to pay way over the fukken odds but screw it, it'll eventually come down in price.

Supercell

I'm between a rock and a hard place when considering the proposed Esat 256 deal.

1) I am an Eircom ADSL subscriber... and will NEVER EVER go back to dial up again if i can avoid it, webpages that load instantly, downloads that take 1/10 of the time compaired to dialup are NICE...but there is this 3gb limit (currently not implemented...thankfully) hanging over my head (we reserve the right to ......)_

2) Was an exSNL'r ....cut of...for using SNL unlimited....old story.

TBH if ESAT are REALLY offering BSNL (Broadband Surf No Limits), then i'll be ditching Eircom as soon as my yearly contract runs out..unless eircom are by then offering something similar (or a more realistic cap)....but once bitten as they say....have a VERY VERY VERY hard time believing that ESAT are prepared to be white knights and offer true BSNL...........can see the old SNL fiasco happening all over again...hope i'm wrong.

To summarize, BSNL @ 256K @ €50 seems like a fantastic deal to me..but.......Esat..need to earn this EX customers trust back.

SkepticOne

I believe that the lower price makes a lot of business sense. Better to sell to many at 50 (+VAT) than what amounts to hardly anyone at 90 (+VAT). The problem is that they are in so few exchanges and 60 euros is still too dear for a lot of people.

PiE

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The problem is that they are in so few exchanges and 60 euros is still too dear for a lot of people.

Yea it's expensive, but what really annoys me is that it's expensive and only half as fast as 90% of people out there with DSL!

Correct me if I'm wrong but... what's to stop Esat offering 512k at €50? Once they buy the stuff in the exchange, it costs the same for a 256k line and a 512k line, just a slight adjustment to raise it to the latter... right?

Edit: Heh, didnt see Dustaz's post ;]

MagicBusDriver

SNL was cut because it was loss making,

ESATBT ADSL is completely different because it is designed to connnected 24/7. ESATBT probabaly dont care how much bandwidth you use, because they have plenty of it.

In the UK I am not aware of anyone being kicked for overuse. Many people use over 100GB a month. It makes the 3GB cap very hard to stomach. It is very hard to keep under if you use streaming media. di.fm

Xian

Originally posted by dahamsta
Wake up, dolt.

Aah, take it aisy on the pair wee laddie. Sure 'es only throwin' shapes!

dahamsta

Aah, take it aisy on the pair wee laddie. Sure 'es only throwin' shapes!

Dahamsta needs to vent. Convenient muppet.

When's the next IrelandOffline meeting? A rake of Erdinger in the pub we went to the last night would work wonders I reckon.

adam

The_Scary_Man

Originally posted by Longfield
i'll be ditching Eircom as soon as my yearly contract runs out..

I thought that it was illegal for a telco to tie you to a fixed time contract.

Bard

Originally posted by The_Scary_Man
I thought that it was illegal for a telco to tie you to a fixed time contract.

Possibly... but I doubt it's illegal for an ISP to do that.

Shred

TBH, I would gladly take up Esat's offer - I'd love 512 unmetered but 256 is a damn site better then what I have right now

I was also one of the 2,000 or so people kicked from SNL. The service wasn't great - it took ages to get connected some evenings, the connection speed was slower than with Eircom, they never seemed to get the direct debit right, my girlfriend got several bills from them, after she cancelled the service, for something like 1 or 2 pence (yes pence!!, when you think how much it costs them to process those bills) etc etc etc

One thing though, I don't actually blame Esat for me being kicked, I blame Eircom's pricing for giving Esat no option