New EU Constitution

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DiscoStu

Originally posted by daveirl
Doesn't European Law already supercede Irish Law or am I missing something.

Isn't the European Court the highest court you can appeal to, or is that only on Human rights issues?

Your point? Youve claimed that it will mearly compliment the constitution but now you have stated that european law over rules Irish law anyway. An EU constitution, as has been described in the article will simply serve as a carte blanche for federalists to mould nations that may in some way oppose a U.S.E by ruling that their descisions are unlawful under european law and forcing them to accept the mandates of the federalists. Imagine a Nice situation under the proposed eu constitution.

"No need for an annoying referendum Betie, voting on the path your nation chooses would be illegal in Europe. So stop your worrying and hand over the couple of billion you owe for the structural funds. Those Polish farmers need subsidies you know"

Cork

Originally posted by Meh
I've said this before, but that's like being afraid to ask a girl you fancy out on the grounds that you might end up marrying her.

Closer integration does not necessarily mean a United States of Europe.

We already share a common monetary policy - any more Closer integration we are danger territory.

What can't our political partys give leadership & state where they stand?

Why is Dick Roche & Brian Cowen gone all quiet?

Why does the EU see the need to try & keep up with the US?

You have the EU space agency and NASA?

You are comparing bannas and pears - They'll never be a Unitied States Of Europe.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

Originally posted by daveirl
Relax. All I was doing was asking a question. That's why there wasn't a point. Jesus :rolleyes:

We have a fine constitution. We have added silly treatys like NICE onto it.

Nobody really knows the staus of the EU constition. It is absurd. Our politicians had all the answers a few short weeks ago - Today , they are silent.

Originally posted by Cork
We have a fine constitution. We have added silly treatys like NICE onto it.

Nobody really knows the staus of the EU constition. It is absurd. Our politicians had all the answers a few short weeks ago - Today , they are silent.

Yes we have a fine constitution, if a little outdated in places perhaps.

Regarding the politicians being silent, I wouldn't worry about that....It might be better to wait untill we see a draft of this constitution and know it's purpose etc.
At least then a proper discussion can take place on the subject.
mm

daveirl

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Cork

I think our constitution is a documement far ahead of its time.

I feel that it has served us through times where other courtries in Europe were engaged in both Civil & World Wars.

Regarding the EU Constitution:

At least then a proper discussion can take place on the subject.

Sure - We'll have all our establishment supporting it - no metter what.

Sesshoumaru

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,821228,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,821165,00.html

"a union of European states which, while retaining their national identities, closely coordinate their policies at the European level, and administer certain common competences on a federal level"

"any competence not conferred on the Union by the constitution rests with the member states"

Seems to me that Giscard is doing a good job on the EU's future constitution. The whole aim of this constitution is to make the EU more transparent and accountable to the ordinary citizens. So what if one of the proposed names was "The USE"? and why do we have to be afraid of using the word "Federal"? I think there are many instances where it would be beneficial for europeans to co- operate on a federal level. This constitution is being drafted by a 105 member convention which includes representatives from all EU countries and candidate countries. Ireland has its say in this new constitution. So there is no need to start frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog just cause the federal word is being used.

Cork

Originally posted by Sesshoumaru
Ireland has its say in this new constitution. So there is no need to start frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog just cause the federal word is being used.

Ireland has it's say - What are our politicians saying?

I know the UK is aganist federalisim or EU unity.

The French and the Germans seem to want closer intergration.

But - Where does Ireland stand?

What is P de rossa, John Bruton or Dick Roche saying?

Originally posted by Cork
Ireland has it's say - What are our politicians saying?

What is P de rossa, John Bruton or Dick Roche saying?

I think you should ask them, I'll pop them a mail today and see what they say.
You should present your worries on this issue to your local M.E.P also Cork, as they may not be reading this board.
As there isn't even a draft of this constitution available yet, and whats going to be in it is still being discussed, I would say expressing your opinions to those in charge would be best for now.
If the principal of any proposed E.U constitution is to merely formalise the implimentation of existing E.U Law in all member states, then I may have no problem with it.
I reserve my own judgement untill I see the Draft.
mm

Sesshoumaru

Ireland has it's say - What are our politicians saying?

I think you should ask them, I'll pop them a mail today and see what they say.

Simple question has simple answer. Thank you!

Cork

I have contacted our MEPS on an issue last year - they don't really reply to emails. T

hey need to publicly state where they stand. What are they afraid of?

I think they may be giving the EU a blank cheque - to do whatever they wish with us.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
I think they may be giving the EU a blank cheque - to do whatever they wish with us.

And I think this is more baseless scaremongering. Either provide something to back this point up, or drop it.

I am getting fed up of seeing substanceless drivel like this clogging up thread after thread after thread. While I may disagree with people like Typedef, at least he usually supplies well-thought-out reasoning for his stance.

Then again, I've been looking hard to find even 4 or 5 worthwhile posts on this thread. The rest are either off topic, chidish or contentless.

If the content doesnt improve, there is no point in continuing this thread. Consider this a final warning.

jc

Typedef

Originally posted by Man
I think you should ask them, I'll pop them a mail today and see what they say.

Actually I did ask Enda Kenny if he supported a Federal European Union, and I was told unambiguously that no, neither he, nor the Fine Gael party supports such en entity. So when one considers that Fine Gael is the most pro-European party in Ireland and that Fine Gael is not prepaired to support a Federal European Union, I think it not unreasonable to draw the inference that most politicians in Ireland being pro-European to a lesser extent, do not in fact support a Federal European motif.

Therefore if the emergent constitution of the European Union starts mentioning competences of a Federal nature, one can expect by way of leading pro-European politicians already stated opposition to Federal Union that, said constitution will not be accepted by Ireland.

Never mind Ireland, Britian would never accept the enunciation of 'Federal' competences. In this regard individual nations in the European Union still have the ability to veto treaties pertaining to the European Union. Now I accept that 'Enhanced co-operation' negates the necessity for treaties to advance the intergrationist agenda, however a European Treaty is binding to all members of the Union, whereas Enhanced co-operation is not. Thus I do not see a time when Federal sceptic countries in the EU will acede to allowing a framework for Federal Union to take place.
Also I find the notion of an opt-out of Federal Union unlikely since senior pro-Federal Europeans are calling for ratification of the constitution or expulsion from the Union of those who do not ratify.

Thus if this quote is to be believed as the thrust of a Constitution "a union of European states which......... administer certain common competences on a federal level", and the notion that states will be expected to leave the Union or ratify is similarly to be believed, I find solace in the knowledge that Federal sceptic states will probably prevent creation of a Federal European Union, by way of their refusal to ratify a Federal agenda and the impossibility of expulsion of those who don't.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by bonkey
And I think this is more baseless scaremongering. Either provide something to back this point up, or drop it.

I am getting fed up of seeing substanceless drivel like this clogging up thread after thread after thread. While I may disagree with people like Typedef, at least he usually supplies well-thought-out reasoning for his stance.

Then again, I've been looking hard to find even 4 or 5 worthwhile posts on this thread. The rest are either off topic, chidish or contentless.

If the content doesnt improve, there is no point in continuing this thread. Consider this a final warning.

jc

Nice one bonkey. About time too.

Originally posted by Typedef
Actually I did ask Enda Kenny if he supported a Federal European Union, and I was told unambiguously that no, neither he, nor the Fine Gael party supports such en entity. So when one considers that Fine Gael is the most pro-European party in Ireland and that Fine Gael is not prepaired to support a Federal European Union, I think it not unreasonable to draw the inference that most politicians in Ireland being pro-European to a lesser extent, do not in fact support a Federal European motif.

I would agree, but Enda Kenny seems to come across as very wooly headed at the best of times.Based on what I've seen, if I was on the interview panel for Taoiseach,I wouldn't give him the job.I would be afraid that other European leaders would run rings around him.

I find solace in the knowledge that Federal sceptic states will probably prevent creation of a Federal European Union, by way of their refusal to ratify a Federal agenda and the impossibility of expulsion of those who don't.

I too find solace in that, it's what I've thought all along,I doubt very much if the same electorate here either, that passed Nice would ever support a full federal European Union.
(:eek: I'm agreeing with Typey:D )
mm