Fine Gael critisise Aherns decision to force friaco!

Cork

Originally posted by De Rebel


Mentioned this thread to show him the speed of reaction and depth of feeleing. Thinking of printing it for him!Thoughts/Objections?

Either - He stands by his statement or not.

If he does or does not. It really does not metter.

Opposition TDs have not very much power.

FG Opposition TDs are not really worth a tought. The tooth fairy has more relevence in Ireland 2002.

(edit)Just one line edited this time Cork. See comments above - I'm very serious. Feel free to criticise particular people in a relevant way. Anything else will not be looked upon kindly. As stated above, there is a politics forum for general ranting about political matters. This isn't the place for general politicking and you know that.

Sorry - But - Opposition TDs don't make decisions. No Party politics intended.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

Originally posted by daveirl
No one came to me at all!

Hmmm Simon's family didn't have an ansbacher account did they???

The late Hugh Coveney didn't have to resign after asking for political favours, did he?

FG are just as corrupt and I've never had much belief in Simon's ability to represent my constituency. He barely got elected the two times he ran and the first time he had the sympathy factor in the bye-election.

Anyway I've gone way OT. At least he back tracked due to our pressure.

Well done IOFFL!

Well - I think going on about corruption achieves nothing. We could write volumes about corruption in FG & other political parties.

But - discussing FG and their morals is better suited to the Politics Forum. FF will be in power for the next 5 Years. So far, the new Minister has been promising.

We are getting action, folks. There is a long way to go.

timod

Originally posted by yellum

Originally posted by dahamsta
He'd do well to remember where the narkiest members of IrelandOffline come from. Isn't that right yellum? Timod?

Timods not narky, just pedantic. I agree with you though.

wha?

BigEejit

Posted By Muck
Bertie has made Noel chairman of the committee on the Marine and Communications despite being an Inland TD .....a whiff of the Lee maybe but no fishermen in Noels constituency

Who (if any) are the other TD's in this committee and can some people here start hassling them to get the finger out....

dahamsta

I'm sober now Dustaz, and I'm annoyed. Don't edit my posts.

adam

Dangger

IOFFL met with David Stanton Fine Gael TD, Dail Deputy with responsilility for Information Society matters back in early September.

We discussed flat rate in detail in his office in Leinster House. He was even shown the forum and pointed to many relevant articles and sites.

I'm astounded at the original statments from Mr. Coveney.

Cork

I surpose - he tought that the job of an opposition party was to oppose.

There is no excuse for his comments.

Did he think that he was onto a winner?

Did he think that - he had the Minister on the ropes?

Heaven knows.

De Rebel

Originally posted by daveirl
Hmmm Simon's family didn't ................

Anyway I've gone way OT.

I wonder what people see as the objective of IOFFL. In the three months that I've been observing this forum I've seen just about every major player in the Telecomms infrastructure castigated in a personal capacity. I have no issue with people's professional failings being publicised and dissected. So what exactly is your tactic here DAVEIRL ? Attract peoples attention, throw their (or in this case their families) issues and alleged issues into their face and then sit back and wait for them to take our priorities on board and work away on our behalf ???

Cop on, grow up and get real. Out best bet is to bring people on board, feed them the facts and failings of the Irish Telecomms and ISP market and encourage them to work on our behalf.

Political rants belong in another place

DC

I agree with De Rebel here. To be taken seriously, mud slinging cannot be allowed, regardless of personal feelings.

Stick to the facts, the issues and educate. Respond to all politicians regardless of party, but stick to the issues. That way when we instruct them to read these threads, they will see us as serious people; determined people. People they should listen to.

Cork

Originally posted by De Rebel
Dear Mr ****,




Fine Gael National Press Office Press Statement
............................................................................
Leinster House Contact: Simon Coveney TD
Dublin 2 Rachel Horan Communications, Marine & Natural
Resources
Ireland 01 6183379- 086 3803187


Fine Gael spokesperson on communications, marine and natural resources, Simon Coveney TD, today (Friday) welcomed the Minister's decision to introduce a policy directive to the new Commission on Communications Regulation to order telecoms firms to offer flat-rate internet access services. However, he cautioned against too much political influence being brought to bear on the Commission.

ENDS

Not being party political - He welcomed on one hand and cautioned against too much political influence being brought to bear on the Commission on the other hand.

What exactly is he saying?

I think we all welcome the Ministers intervention to the new Commission on Communications Regulation to order telecoms firms to offer flat-rate internet access services.

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta
I'm sober now Dustaz, and I'm annoyed. Don't edit my posts.

adam

Tough, see pm



Folks , I happen to agree 100% with derebel on this. This is NOT Politics forum. Please leave any political issues that are not related to Ireland Offline out of discussions.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Not being party political - He welcomed on one hand and cautioned against too much political influence being brought to bear on the Commission on the other hand.

What exactly is he saying?

I think (and remember there's been some backtracking on this one by Mr Coveney) that what he's saying is that what the Minister has done/is planning to do is a good thing BUT that the Commission should be independent and that even though this announcement is a step forward, he wouldn't want a situation where influence brought to bear on an independent commission towards progress would be a precedent for other influence (some possibly not towards progress) in the future.

Which on the whole is, I suppose, a reasonable point. If the announcement Dermot Ahern had made was something like "I want the Commission to get rid of the price cap", many of us would be jumping down his throat, pushing the case that the Commission should be truly independent of government influence. The announcement has been positive so we haven't; however in the interest of fairness the principle should be the same regardless of the effect of the announcement/directive.

This is likely to be one of the main pillars on which any possible Eircom case agaist the Minister and/or Commission will stand - he may or may not actually have the power to do this. If he doesn't he's guilty of window dressing. The test is whether he'll actually issue the directive - if he does, he believes he does have the power; if he doesn't, it's back to window dressing land.

Personally I'm just going to be guilty of a double standard on this one and let it completely pass. This one suits the country - it's a good thing. If Dermot Ahern issues the directive/order, I'll lie down and think of Machievelli. In the future, when he may make another order that doesn't suit the country/me (such as maybe dropping the Eircom retail price cap as a bargaining chip), I'll happily scream blue murder.

dahamsta

Tough, see pm

I know it's not personal, but editing someone's posts is the wrong way to handle it. And, staying on topic...

Folks , I happen to agree 100% with derebel on this. This is NOT Politics forum. Please leave any political issues that are not related to Ireland Offline out of discussions.

The thread is political. Vinnyfitz mooted O'Flynn as a possible point of contact, which I object strenously to -- the man is an embarassment, I don't him fighting our battles, and many of my Cork colleagues will agree with me.

My post was rather strenuous, so I understand your point of view, but again, editing posts is unfair and results in confusion -- one member PM'd me this morning to ask why my post was under your name in the Recycle Bin.

If you'd quoted my post and ticked me off I probably would have been embarassed and apologised (to you, not to him). Now I'm just annoyed.

adam

Cork

I think (and remember there's been some backtracking on this one by Mr Coveney) that what he's saying is that what the Minister has done/is planning to do is a good thing BUT that the Commission should be independent and that even though this announcement is a step forward, he wouldn't want a situation where influence brought to bear on an independent commission towards progress would be a precedent for other influence (some possibly not towards progress) in the future

What would he do to get flat rate?
Would he leave it up to the commission?
What is he suggesting?

Slutmonkey57b

It's an interesting barometer of the importance politicians apply to the subject though, that this ... uhh... individual is responsible for

Communications.

The Marine.

and

Natural Resources.

Spot the odd man out.
One of these things is not the same.

timod

Originally posted by sceptre
...that the Commission should be independent and that even though this announcement is a step forward, he wouldn't want a situation where influence brought to bear on an independent commission towards progress would be a precedent for other influence (some possibly not towards progress) in the future.

Which on the whole is, I suppose, a reasonable point.

yeah, I'd kinda agree with this. The point about the commission being independent is valid - trouble is that the commission is likely to just sit back, and enjoy the status quo, which is why the minister should be lauded for his statement (even if for now, it is just a bunch of words)

As regards Simon Coveny, I've always found him quite receptive regarding the issues that concern us. I attended a conference which he was at last year, and I also sent in a question to a radio show he was at (Check my previous posts!), and on both occasions he spoke sensibly.

The oppositions role in parliment is to keep the government on it's toes, and in this sense, he's been playing as an opposition TD.

The very fact that he has been so open to communications with IOFFL members on this topic shows two things:
1) The membership of IOFFL are doing great work outside of the core committee work and
2) Simon Coveney is quite a reasonable character, and is open to our ideas and suggestions.

(Then again, I'm an realistic optimist )

I probably should end this by saying that I am not what one would call a Fine Gael supporter.

Tim

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta

The thread is political. Vinnyfitz mooted O'Flynn as a possible point of contact, which I object strenously to -- the man is an embarassment, I don't him fighting our battles, and many of my Cork colleagues will agree with me.

No, its a thread about politicians, theres a difference. Your personal opinions count but theres a difference between calling an organisation something and a person something.

My post was rather strenuous, so I understand your point of view, but again, editing posts is unfair and results in confusion -- one member PM'd me this morning to ask why my post was under your name in the Recycle Bin.

If you'd quoted my post and ticked me off I probably would have been embarassed and apologised (to you, not to him). Now I'm just annoyed.

1. The actual editing caused no confusion whatsoever. I kept a copy of what you said in case anyone had issue with the editing. That is what a recycle bin is for.
2. When i edit dubious content out, its because i think it should be out, not quoted and repeated ad nauseum
3. I would have PMed you all this, but in the interests of you or anyone not freaking out and trying to set your people free i have responded here. If you have anything further to say, pm or email me.

yellum

I'd agree that O'Flynn is not the most intelligent guy around. I still think that with his moronic ideas about refugees he'd be the funniest Minister for Foreign Affairs ever without even trying.

I'd disagree that this was a Politics forum matter, a lot of the threads here are naturally going to be political in nature as well. All part of the m.o.

Personally insulting Noel ain't good either, but finding fault with his office should be okay. As a public representaive he should surely get negative feedback.

De Rebel

I am not here to defend Simon Coveney or any other politician, but I think I can clarify some of what being said. The comment attributed to Coveney in the very first post in this thread was apparently not a written statement; it was a verbal response to a question from a journalist. When speaking to him yesterday on the phone he felt that the printed comment misrepresented his position and he was at pains to point out that he was not against the directive in this case, but was speaking in his capacity as opposition spokesman to flag and warn about the dangers of political intervention. I believe the written statement posted yesterday makes this clear.

Whatever the background, the record now shows that the Government and the largest Opposition Party both support the directive. Nothing happened over the last couple of years simply because nobody took the lead. Finally, our politicians now recognise that it is there responsibility to lead on this issue. This is a massive breakthrough. At long long last someone has ownership of the issue.

The IOFFL committee now has access to the minister and his advisors. I believe that we can compliment this by meeting and briefing the other players, such as Coveney and O’Flynn, in their official capacities. I am not asking anybody here to like them as individuals, to agree with their politics or to vote for them. What I am asking is that we behave as mature adults and meet with them in their professional capacities to discuss our shared interests and further our common objectives.

I am taking a lead on meeting Coveney simply because he is local to me and it is convenient. I simply don’t have the time to travel to Dublin to engage in the efforts there. This is my contribution.


Can I ask others to help me. What I need from each of you is

1. 3 or 4 bullet points of the key issues we want addressed going forward
   
2. If you have a little more time a paragraph setting out your/your employer’s/your client’s current situation and how the Telecomms/ISP situation impacts negatively or costs you. (I will also be drawing from Tom Dunne’s “Calling all multi-national workers” thread) i.e. In my case I am a self employed consultant/contractor. It takes me 2 days income per month (out of 22 billable days) to pay my communications bills – rental, land line usage, mobile usage, ISP costs etc. This is unacceptable, wholly at odds with international norms and and I want it addressed.

(mod edit - just added bold text as it's pretty important (probably enough to warrant its own thread tbh). No text modified)

Cork

The point about the commission being independent is valid

Was the ODTR not independent & what did this achieve for flat rate access in Ireland?

I am not scoring political points here - but all political partys are wanting with regard to telecommunications in Ireland.

In my openion - Simons views about the Minister's directive are ill concieved.

The Ministers directive is 100% welcomed by myself.

It is about time that a Minister is doing something thats puts Flat Rate internet access on the top of the Comissions agenda.

Fair play to the Minister - He is attempting to get things moving (at long last).

sax0000

"Finally, our politicians now recognise that it is there responsibility to lead on this issue".

In one of the advertisements in today's newspapers for the absurdly OTT Mercedes Benz Maybach, the headline reads "Leadership is daring to step into the unknown". At least they got that bit right.

http://www.maybach-manufaktur.com/

crappy website ;- (

DC

De Rebel,

As someone who runs an ISP/Web Hosting company from Simon Coveney's constituency (I'm assuming Mahon is in his constituency), I would be glad to supply a letter from our company stating how lack of serious broadband (and also datacentres) outside Dublin is hurting our business. Also how €90 per month for DSL is too expensive and how our key support employees cannot all get DSL from home (or at least FRIACO).

PM me if this is something you would like to take to a meeting with Coveney.

Larkin.

sax0000

Originally posted by DC
De Rebel,

As someone who runs an ISP/Web Hosting company from Simon Coveney's constituency (I'm assuming Mahon is in his constituency), I would be glad to supply a letter from our company stating how lack of serious broadband (and also datacentres) outside Dublin is hurting our business. Also how €90 per month for DSL is too expensive and how our key support employees cannot all get DSL from home (or at least FRIACO).

PM me if this is something you would like to take to a meeting with Coveney.

Larkin.

The opposition are under educated.

The cost difference between an E-anything internet feed in Dublin and the same pipe anywhere else in the country is appalling.

Because the feed into Dublin has been gov.ie subsidized (eg Global Crossing) whereas the feed between Dublin and anywhere else in IRL is super surcharged by eircom who set the markers for "competitors" pricing. Pardon me while I choke on my vomit - no doubt a self-inflicted biological reaction for suggesting that BT were actually "competing" with eircom.

(sick) sax0000

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

Is Simon Coveney aware of the subject metter?
Are our political partys aware?
How would Simon Coveney rate the ODTR?

Why can he not give an unequivital welcome to the Ministers directive?



What plans does he have for flat rate internet access?

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Why can he not give an unequivital welcome to the Ministers directive?

(edit)Cork - misread your intention (missed De Rebel's request - apology added below)

Read my response to your question. That's one possible answer.

Is Simon Coveney aware of the subject metter?
Are our political partys aware?
How would Simon Coveney rate the ODTR?
.
.
.
What plans does he have for flat rate internet access?

We don't know. That's why a few people are talking about meeting the guy. He isn't his party's spokesman on comms but his views are as valid as mine or yours.

(edited per Adam's comments below - didn't realise he actually was the FG shadow on comms - therefore important to meet the guy and give him the neccessary education/lowdown. If Adam Beecher has had difficulty pinning the guy down I wish the rest of the real Cork brigade (as opposed to the fake Cork cum Limerick brigade (me)) well in actually getting a meeting)

dahamsta

He isn't his party's spokesman on comms but his views are as valid as mine or yours.

http://www.finegael.ie/shadowcabinet/cabinet.shtml

He was quoted out of context, and I know how that feels. However, I'm just a PRO - and a bloody amateur one at that - whereas he's shadow Minister for Communications, and Deputy Chief Whip to boot -- he should know better.

This is why I was so annoyed, plus the fact that I've met him myself and explained the issues personally. CCing me on the response was the icing on the cake.

And I'm a constituent, remember.

adam

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
Cork was posing all those questions because he was asked to by De Rebel who is meeting Simon Coveney.

Bah, I deserve a slap for speed reading. Apologies, Cork. I'll leave my posting there lest I be accused of editing anything to suit myself but ignore the above. Blame my staring at C++ screens for the last 30 hours:eek: if you like but snappiness from me unwarranted nonetheless. I'll add a bold to De Rebel's post in case there are other idiots like me who don't spot it.