May You Live In Interesting Times (Discussion).

DeVore

Hi there,

This is the usual update on what is going on in the palatial Boards HQ and our, nearly realised, plans for world domination.

Much has been afoot!

We're moving server. Probably in the next two weeks. If you think that’s traumatic, you don’t know the half of it. Boards.ie is now running around 2.5 million pages served a month. Any downtime and Regi's and my lives turn to hell! You cant just unplug it and cart it over to another host. It doesn’t run on ISDN either.

For the first time in our 4-year history we now own our own server. We've built it from bits and pieces lying around here and with a lot of the cash you gave at the boards bash (not least of which was the raffle for the Legal Letter). W00t!

We now have a dual 733 Mhz Pentium server with a whopping 1.7 gigs of main memory and about 64 gigs of HD space.

The server is being hosted by Hosting365 and in the near future will be sitting about 30 metres from the new INEX (Irish NEutral Exchange, or the crossroads where all the telcos meet, to the non-techies out there), so response times should be good from all ISPs.

This means more space, more RAM and a dedicated HD for the database (which will be cached directly into main memory for speed).

We are also only going to be hosting Boards.ie (and not other miscellaneous stuff) so we can progress some of the HackAttack ideas we've been having over on the community coding forum. That will start to gear up after the move.

This means that Boards is now becoming cheaper to run as we don’t have to pay whopping bills for machine rental as well as

bandwidth and hosting. That means Boards.ie is now slowly becoming self-sufficient which was the plan 4 years ago when we started. Now we have to have a long hard think about what we *want* to do with Boards.ie. Where do we want to be in 4 years time?

We'll be opening a discussion about that on the Admin forum soon, as we plan on kicking the whole "community supporting itself" idea into a higher gear in the future. It may also be time for a Charter for the whole site... as statement of intent, something like an agreement between all of us as to what can be planned for and what shouldn’t.
I'm thinking things like a pledge to never ever do pop-ups. To never let the email list out of our hands etc. A map to build something kinda cool... back to where the websites started (like Yahoo) before they fncked their users over for a excessive profit.
The cool thing is that we don’t have investors to answer to, we can do as we see fit. So what do we see fit???

Anyway, I digress. We will be moving the site over sometime in the near future (that’s Regis department). We'll probably experience any number of minor issues but I'm sure you'll bear with us!

Pretty soon I'm going to open up a major discussion on the future of Boards.ie because at this stage we've done pretty much what we set out to do a long time ago and its time to plan again.

May you live in interesting times? We wouldn’t have it any other way

DeV and the Admins.


(as ever you can discuss this on the Admin forums...)

Bard

Sounds promising. Kudos to all involved.

Cheers, hosting365!

seamus

Yuss! Having recently procured IRC, tis all OK. IRC is what kept me sane during the last move. plyd gg etc etc

Gordon

Good stuff peeps.

smoke.me.a.kipper

@boards.ie email.

custom forum styles (presumably after vBulletin 3 is here).

more user webspace.

smak for president.

DeVore

1 and 3 look very likely Smak.
2 and 4 we'll have to see about

DeV.

amp

Might be possible now, but redirecting pm's to e-mail? Replying could be tricky and I'm sure there could be some bandwith/sql/php/perl/cobol related issues that I don't understand.

Any chance of jIRC being upgraded? or dumped in favour of something that's better?

But maybe best to wait for Vb3's whistles und bells.

Also, I think world domination should be given serious thought. Boards should get so big that I get to be a guest on a chat show where all I say is "I like cake" "Atari Jaguar" and "amp test". In fact screw that, I want to be the host (and still just say the same things only with question marks after them).

That is all.

DeVore

Can anyone find anything better the jIRC (and DONT mention CGI/IRC)

We might give a mail account with every user account but put a "sponsored by" message on it until you are a supporter of boards (ie: the supporters pack idea). Hmmm spammers might be a problem...

I'll be opening up a discussion soon on the commercial aspects and what we (as a group) think will work and what wont.

DeV.

seamus

Originally posted by DeVore
We might give a mail account with every user account but put a "sponsored by" message on it until you are a supporter of boards (ie: the supporters pack idea). Hmmm spammers might be a problem...

Messy as it is, you could put a web frontend on the SMTP and set the server to refuse to send all messages that don't originate from localhost. After that, spammers can be dealt with through bannings........

Bard

Originally posted by DeVore
Can anyone find anything better the jIRC (and DONT mention CGI/IRC)

The lads at cmeire.com have an excellent one installed at http://www.cmeire.com/chat/ . It's fully configurable - and apparently it's free.

Stephen

I notice that the users logged in record has been broken again today - 192 simultaneous users this afternoon - gg boards.ie

Yoda

Originally posted by DeVore
That means Boards.ie is now slowly becoming self-sufficient which was the plan 4 years ago when we started. Now we have to have a long hard think about what we *want* to do with Boards.ie. Where do we want to be in 4 years time?

One very cool thing is how some government departments and the ODTR and some big companies are watching the IOFFL thread. The Boards (especially with greater participation if the plain people of Ireland ever actually get online) could be an important source of information, in principle.

If only so many of the people who post to it would learn to spell.

DeVore

yes, thats a very cool chat applet. We'll be having a bit of that thanks.

DeV.

Ruaidhri

how about a step by step guide to how you installed your server and configuring it?
you could document it and take pics for all us,umm i mean all them geeks out there.

The Corinthian

[edit]Posted to the wrong thread [/edit]

Boston

I persume the email account thing would be pop based and not web based. I.E. YOu can use it from out look. I think you should screw the sponsored by idea as its annoying, and just make a flat out payment or a yearly payment for the accounts.

something like 20 euro for one and a five every year after. It would also mean that they wont be used as spam accounts.

Could also use it at a means to restrict access to certain areas, i.e hack attack and the like.

DeVore

we may do something like
Unsponsored: Web mail, line from us saying we sponsored it. No pop3.

Sponsor Pack: POP3 mail (ie outlook/Eudora) or Web access, no sponsorship line.

I dont see us ever making a board PPV except maybe Admin (the thinking being that if you arent happy to give us a small bit of money a year, I dont see why you should get a say in how the site develops.

Like I said, I think we need a charter or a plan personally. And I'll be writing a draft one soon for discussion.

DeV.

amp

Originally posted by Ruaidhri
how about a step by step guide to how you installed your server and configuring it?
you could document it and take pics for all us,umm i mean all them geeks out there.

Pervert.

As for Admin being ppv, well seeing as it's also the Supreme Court of boards.ie, I can forsee issues where non-paying members get no chance to defend their muppetry.

Then again unlike the real world everybody here's a muppet unless they prove otherwise.

Also, maybe a Supreme Court board where threads like the one about Gunnarse might be spun off from Admin.

amp, having vented his spleen, wanders off to get more Pepsi Max....

DeVore

hmmm interesting ideas there Amp but to be honest we dont have any plans to make Admin PPV in the foreseeable future... I just dont want to say "All boards will always be free" when the thought of Admin being PPV has crossed my mind.

I'm very much in a "Charter for the Next 5 years" mood at the moment so I want to start to define some things that everyone can hold us to, and for us to outlay where we think the site is going in the future so people know what we're thinking and cant come back later on and say we broke their trust in us etc...

Commercialisation is a dirty word but so is Debt. What I want to do is find a way that is fair and equitable and allows Boards to grow further while remaining true to the spirit/history.
If it doesnt do that, then we'll end up another souless piece of web-commercialisation and my interest in that is ZERO.

DeV.

dahamsta

Boards should get so big that I get to be a guest on a chat show where all I say is "I like cake" "Atari Jaguar" and "amp test". In fact screw that, I want to be the host (and still just say the same things only with question marks after them).

Picture the scene. Amp deep in thought, listening attentively to a wonderous superstar. The superstar stops, waiting for a deep and thoughtful reply from the Master. Amp leans over, touches them on the knee affectionately, and says...

"Hmmmm. Atari Jaguar?"

*snort*

PiE

Well I'd pay to see that for sure.

The Sweeper

...you would?

Jesus, get OUT more...

dahamsta

Hey, that'd be a good craic actually: Boards Revue. It's not as if we'd be at a loss for material. Course, amp wouldn't get a word in what with everyone shouting "AMP TEST" the minute he walked on stage.

At least we could get the bouncers to Ban Castor Troy though.

adam

smoke.me.a.kipper

Originally posted by DeVore
we may do something like
Unsponsored: Web mail, line from us saying we sponsored it. No pop3.

Sponsor Pack: POP3 mail (ie outlook/Eudora) or Web access, no sponsorship line.

you will recieve my payment as soon as this goes ahead.

boards.ie webmail = om-nyomity!

koneko

What can I donate to get a custom title?

How about cake?

DeVore

We're working on it. Slowly, ever so slowly... but it should happen this side of xmas. Hopefully.

DeV.

Keeks

It good to finally see that boards.ie is (slowly) becoming self-sufficiant and I welcome moves to make it so.

As for the charter, make it as simple as possible, but the main thing the charter should down is to allow the boards to continue to grow as it is.

Also it would be no harm to exactlly define how boards interacts with the business world. This whole alliance or friendships begin struck up with various companies (Kmoplott, Hosting365, UTV etc) is a little unnerving. I don't know the whole story about it (nor do I want to). But if don't know then the rest of the business community certainly doesn't. And to me, that could mean lost revenue through potential advertisers, or certain companied trying to "blackball" us.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is keep the rules simple for us to follow (along the lines of no muppetry) and have a detailed set of rules for the commerical world (such as adverts won't be pop-ups).

Nevyn

Yes i'd def be intrested in email and webspace, but it would depend on the contract


and in a Boards isp which was mentioned in breif on irc one night

kaimera

Originally posted by DeVore
We're working on it. Slowly, ever so slowly... but it should happen this side of xmas. Hopefully.

DeV.

Ah crap!:(

Looks my my donation will have to wait till I get home after Christmas...

any idea's on how the payments are to be made Dev?

through bank transfers, postal orders, cheques??

STaN

have u thought about sponsorship and if so... in what forms?

i may know a company, or 3

Wook

any chance in buying shares ?
(as a way of support ?, I am not interrested in alcohol bashes ? but i am interested in keeping this board )

Thanx 4 The Fish

UNfortunately once people start paying for a service (and before anyone starts at me I heart blah blah etc this prod...) bannings, etc will have to be fully justified and explained and there would have to be a review procedure for same. And possibly if the user does not agree, could demand that their €X be refunded.

As for the naming of the email a/cs, there has been some discussion about this already on the hack-attack board and giving people whatever name they ask for could be troublesome as I could request, assuming that it was not gone, that I have amp@boards.ie or koneko@boards.ie as my mail address.

koneko

Dibs on koneko@boards.ie!

Seriously though, I see where T4TF is coming from. It's probably best/easiest to only get your username, that way there will be no confusion, or mess.

DeVore, my offer of cake still stands. I have tupperware, stamps and a jiffy bag. And cake.

--
+

Vexorg

Hiya Keeks

Also it would be no harm to exactlly define how boards interacts with the business world. This whole alliance or friendships begin struck up with various companies (Kmoplott, Hosting365, UTV etc) is a little unnerving. I don't know the whole story about it (nor do I want to). But if don't know then the rest of the business community certainly doesn't. And to me, that could mean lost revenue through potential advertisers, or certain companied trying to "blackball" us.

All of the people you have mentioned above are simply advertisers, the may have a banner, button or forum or some other mix of methods to get their name accross, but non of them have exclusive rights to advertise, we have had eircom, UTVip and BT all advertising similar products. There is no secret alliance that the business community should not know about, in fact quite the opposite, we will gladly take paid advertising from anyone (within reason - eg no racist - porn - incitment to hatred etc etc.. and just as important, does not alienate the boards users/members...)

What is interesting tho' is the fact you felt a unnerved by it and some business may also feel like wise... can you tell us why, any advertisers we have taken on have been discussed (im pretty sure all of them were announced in advance), most recently the komplett forum discussion .... which had overwhelming support from those who posted.

Anyone else feel similarly?


Vex.

amp

Originally posted by PiE
Well I'd pay to see that for sure.

It can be arranged if you like. How much are you willing to pay? Is there anyone in particular you'd like me to touch on the knee? Do you have a credit card or access to a credit card? Have you had an AIDS test?

PHB

Well there are a couple of things I would suggest.

You could make it possible to

• Change your custom title that is locked for 3 months €5
  
• Lock your custom Title €10
  
• Change somebody elses custom title €10
  
• Buy an a/c which gives you a custom title for 3 months, email, personal avater, webspace €20
  
• Increased webspace €10 [ Or some sort of usage system ]
  
• Hosting for websites and stuff €?? [ Couldnt tell ya a price ]
  
• Reintroduce a spell check which I miss so much
  
• Also you could have an agreement that you accept when you take up an a/c to accept the admins ban and to forfeit your right to get your money back, as SA have
  
• Maybe remerge all the forums Make Games on big forums with about 6 moderators I personally don't like the way everything is spilt up
  
• I don't know how the law works on this sorta stuff or how people feel about it so you can edit this post if you want, but maybe a boards.ie DC Hub
  

Dustaz

Originally posted by PHB
but maybe a boards.ie DC Hub

Nothing to see here, move along please.

There is defintly not one in existance.

Snaga

Originally posted by PHB

• Change your custom title that is locked for 3 months €5
  
• Lock your custom Title €10
  
• Change somebody elses custom title €10
  
• Buy an a/c which gives you a custom title for 3 months, email, personal avater, webspace €20

Any editing of other peoples tags is a _BAD_ idea. always has been always will be. Sure itd make money but it would piss a helluva lot of people off.

Just say no!

seamus

Originally posted by Snaga
Sure itd make money but it would piss a helluva lot of people off.

I fail to see your argument

What's a DC hub anyway? Something to do with filesharing?

Snaga

Simple, it leaves it wide open for abuse.

Why should I pay money to anyone to stop someone else slandering me via my own tag line??

Charge for value added services like changing your own tagline for example(once its moderated) or boards.ie email addresses and other goodies.

Thanx 4 The Fish

PHB had some good ideas but the amounts of money being asked for is a bit excessive IMHO. Personally think it could be a yearly fee, or maybe a higher but much better value for money "Lifetime" Tm fee

At what stage would Boards have to start paying tax on moneys coming in ?

Would there be protection on the amount that the fee could go up ?

DeVore

Remember the idea is not to squeeze every last penny we can get from users. Its to make boards selfsufficent and fund its growth. Hence we want to have offers that make people think "cool, Boards is one big happy family!" and have control over it OURSELVES rather then lining the pockets of some board of directors.

Wouldnt it be cool if we made enough money in a 3 months period that all the mods could have a night on the piss paid for?
Or that a Boards Beer Bash could be funded by our collective communal weight?

These things havent been tried before in the industry. Its all about profit margins and exit strategies. Wouldnt it be cool to do something DIFFERENT for a change? something truely remarkable?

Maybe I'm a dreamer but there are more important things then mere money in the world....

DeV.

Dustaz

Originally posted by DeVore

Wouldnt it be cool if we made enough money in a 3 months period that all the mods could have a night on the piss paid for?

As much as it would pain me to turn down a free gargle, if the money would be better spent on boards somehow then Id prefer to see that. Im pretty sure that most of the mods here feel that they are users who happen to mod a board, rather than being just mods.

[smithers]
just having boards is the actual reward
[/smithers]

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Keeks

Originally posted by Vexorg
we will gladly take paid advertising from anyone (within reason - eg no racist - porn - incitment to hatred etc etc.. and just as important, does not alienate the boards users/members...)

What is interesting tho' is the fact you felt a unnerved by it and some business may also feel like wise...

What I'm afraid off is that somewhere down the line is that we might actually have to be 'nice' to the advertisers. Its happened with some many other sites b4. I know hell will freeze over first b4 boards.ie sells-out but it is no harm to copper-fasten the idea in the 'soon to written' charter. I'd just like to see a set of defined rules for what the business community can and can't do, in relation to the boards.

I think it is something to think about as boards.ie profile increases. As you've mentioned, Eircom, esat, utv etc have all placed adverts here. And more will come sniffing. If ye have a set of rules for them to follow it might cause less headaches inthe future.

kaimera

Maybe in the *sponsorship pack* you could make more outta the Boards t-shirts n such...like names n taglines printed on sleeves n such if they wanted.

Maybe discounted prices for paid members?

What better way to advertise Boards.ie as ""one big happy family!" to the rest of the country than have it's 10K+ members walking round with it printed on their back?

Keeks

Originally posted by DeVore
Wouldnt it be cool if we made enough money in a 3 months period that all the mods could have a night on the piss paid for?

I'd just be happy with an e-mail addy

have it's 10K+ members

Is that with or without all the bubbles accouts

DeVore

Originally posted by Keeks
What I'm afraid off is that somewhere down the line is that we might actually have to be 'nice' to the advertisers. Its happened with some many other sites b4. I know hell will freeze over first b4 boards.ie sells-out but it is no harm to copper-fasten the idea in the 'soon to written' charter. I'd just like to see a set of defined rules for what the business community can and can't do, in relation to the boards.

I think it is something to think about as boards.ie profile increases. As you've mentioned, Eircom, esat, utv etc have all placed adverts here. And more will come sniffing. If ye have a set of rules for them to follow it might cause less headaches inthe future.

We've also had people offer us cash money for ads is they can tag riders to it that we "recommend" their product or refer nicely to them. We gave them some advice on precreation and travel.

Eircom was our single biggest ever sponsor in terms of advertising and well.. I'll let you judge

We dont need to sell our soul and frankly, these people cant afford mine.

DeV.

dahamsta

We gave them some advice on precreation and travel.

And circuitous travelling circular dough-based confectionaries too I'll wager.

adam

lordsippa

Don't charge. Donations should be kept voluntary, but should (of course) be rewarded.

A lot of boards users are young and not earning sums. Hell, I should know cause I fit into that category. I think that by charging for everything you'd just be cutting yourselves off from a HUUGE userbase and... well... pissing a lot of existing users off.

That said, I would pay (somehow), but if the idea of a "buy what you want" service came into play i'd stop paying damn quickly.

I'm tired, so maybe I'm not getting my point across clearly but... if boards.ie starts to actively look for money from people (fundraising events like beer bashes don't count) it'll lose a lot of people and a lot of soul.

But yeah... I'll try to get some money to ya Dev through the grapevine. Cash'll do? <It'll definitely have to wait till after christmas too>

DeVore

Originally posted by lordsippa
Don't charge. Donations should be kept voluntary, but should (of course) be rewarded.

A lot of boards users are young and not earning sums. Hell, I should know cause I fit into that category. I think that by charging for everything you'd just be cutting yourselves off from a HUUGE userbase and... well... pissing a lot of existing users off.

wooooooaah!
Noones talking about charging for Boards.ie

What we were talking about is *possibly* charging for additional services. Access to Boards.ie will always be free imho.

DeV.