The Boards.ie Quick and Dirty Guide to Driving Licences

seamus

Seeing as there are so many questions here about licencing and I'm bored, he we are. Neil can sticky it if he wants.......

Types of Licences (Classification):

This specifys what vehicle a licence is valid for (and the type of vehicle you must do your test in to gain a full licence in that cat.)

M - Mopeds. Vehicles not exceeding 50cc. Min. Age 16.

W - Work Vehicles, Tractors, etc. Min. Age 16.

A1 - Motorcycles upto and including 125cc. Min. Age 17.

A - All MotorCycles. Min. Age 18. (See Note 1)

B - Cars, Light Vans. Max 8 passengers. Min. Age 17. (See Note 2)

C1 - Large Vans, Light Trucks. Vehicles weighing between 3.5-7.5 tons unladen. Min. Age 18.

C - All Trucks. Vehicles weighing over 3.5 tons unladen. Min Age 18.

D1 - Minibuses. Vehicles with passenger accomodation between 8-16 people. Min. Age 21.

D - All Buses. Vehicles with passenger accomodation for more than 8 people. Min. Age 21.

E - Addition of a trailer to a vehicle. (See Note 3)

---

There are 3 separate theory tests:

One for cats. M, W, A1, A & B.

One for cats. C1, C.

One for cats. D1, D.

If you have not previously done a theory test and wish to apply for a new provisional licence (not a renewal) you must do one. E.g. If you wish to get a prov. A licence, but hold a full B licence, you must still do a theory test.

---

Only people who hold a full licence in cat. B may apply for a provisional licence in cats. C1, C, D1, or D.

The only provisionally licenced drivers who may drive unaccompanied are those in cats. M, A1, A & drivers holding their second licence in cat. B.

Drivers may only have 2 provisional licences in one category. In order to get a third or subsequent licence, you must show evidence of having recently done a test, or of a test pending. NB: Drivers on a third or subsequent licence in cat. B may not drive unaccompanied.

---

Notes:

1) Test for a full A licence can only be conducted on a vehicle larger then 125cc. Drivers are restricted to bikes of less than 25kWh for 2 years after gaining a full A licence.

2) Holders of full licences in cat. B automtically qualify as fully licensed in cats. M,W.

3) To get a provisional/test in any 'trailer' category, you must hold a full licence in that category. E.g. to get an 'EB' prov. licence you must hold a full 'B' licence.

---

I think that just about covers it. Anything I missed? Some of those min ages might be wrong........

sceptre

Nice one Seamus.

Just posting to add:

www.drivingtest.ie

You can apply for a driving test on-line there - site also has info on testing centres, pass rates and waiting times for each centre, driving test fees and FAQ and a page on "preparing for your driving test".

Neil, obviously feel free to throw this info into Seamus' post in the interest of neatness if you feel like it.

Bard

Seamus... Regarding your note no. 2 - is this automatic or it is not only if you have specifically requested categories M and/or W to be on the license as well as B when applying for the test?

seamus

Originally posted by Bard
Seamus... Regarding your note no. 2 - is this automatic or it is not only if you have specifically requested categories M and/or W to be on the license as well as B when applying for the test?

Nope, you don't need them specified on the licence. Tis automatic.......

Well, that said, an insurance co/business may ask you have it specified, but Hibernian offered to insure me on a moped with the solitary B on my licence. If you just apply for a full licence with the other cats. on it, you don't have to do another test.......

Cake Fiend

I believe you have to have a previous provisional license to go for a provisional 'A' licence? e.g. I'm going for a provisional motorbike license, but I seem to have to apply for an 'A1' if it's my first provisional - then I can apply for an 'A' provisional after holding the 'A1' for two years? (I'm 21 btw)

Kazujo

Once your over 18 you can apply for a provisional A licence. You do not ahve to have held an A licence at all.

Cake Fiend

I'm just going on what I (thought I) understood from the 'Rules of the Road' booklet. I'll check it again tonight and post up its exact wording.

Hmm, oasis.gov.ie states "A person without any driving experience may apply for a provisional licence for categories A, A1, B, C1 or W only" which seems to contradict what the RotR booklet says.

Cake Fiend

OK, this is word for word what it says in the Dept. of the Environment's 'Rules of the Road' booklet, printed in Feb 2002 (picked up in Easons for €2.50):

A person without any driving experience may apply for a provisional licence for categories A1, B, C1 or W only.

A provisional licence for category A will be granted only to a person who holds a driving licence for category A1 (motorcycle not over 125cc) and who has held such a licence for at least two years. This restriction does not apply to persons of 25 years of age or over.

Oasis.gov.ie on the other hand says you can get an 'A' licence for your first provo.

Does anyone know for absolutely sure what exactly the craic is?

Chimaera

Heh - the entitlement to a W licence after passing the car test is laughable really - you are not allowed to drive any car/van/truck over 3.5tonnes and are not allowed to tow a trailer, yet you are fully entitled to drive a 12tonne tractor towing a 28tonne trailer no problem. Admittedly there is a great difference in the top speeds of these vehicles, but a 40tonne tractor-trailer outfit is still a formidable vehicle to crash into - bear in mind that a 1.2tonne car travelling at 60mph has the same amount of momentum as a 40tonne tractor-trailer outfit travelling at 1.8mph!! Then think about one of these things travelling at 25mph, and it starts to look a bit funny.....

BTW anyone know exactly what the story is with trailers - I've heard rumours that you don't need a specific licence to tow a trailer under a certain weight?

seamus

Originally posted by Sico
Does anyone know for absolutely sure what exactly the craic is?

Yep, you can get an A licence as soon as you're 18. Without ever having an A1 before. I did.

BTW anyone know exactly what the story is with trailers - I've heard rumours that you don't need a specific licence to tow a trailer under a certain weight?

I'm not sure, but I think they changed the requirements so that everyone needs a licence to tow any trailer. Not that anyone pays a blind bit of notice to it. Afaik too you don't need to hold a provisional for the trailer. If you want, you can just go straight and do the test for it.

krinDar

http://www.corkcoco.com/cccmm/services/motor_tax/driving_licences.htm#motorcycles

"A Restricted:
If applicant has not held a provisional A license before 15th November 1999 he/she can only get a restricted A. He/she cannot drive motorcycles exceeding 25 kW engine power or a power /weight ratio exceeding 0.16 kW/kg or in the case of vehicles in the said category with sidecars with a power/weight ratio exceeding 0.16 kW/kg."

25Kw is approximately 33Bhp.

seamus

*bumpo*

Anyone wanna sticky this?

a_ominous

Originally posted by seamus
...

Notes:

1) Test for a full A licence can only be conducted on a vehicle larger then 125cc. Drivers are restricted to bikes of less than 25kWh for 2 years after gaining a full A licence.

You need a bike > 150cc to do the test for A licence. Yes I know this leaves a gap from 125cc (A1 licence) to 150cc, but thems the rules.

seamus

Yeah I noticed that when I reread it today, but I can't edit it now since I wrote it over a year ago.

Maybe Neil will change it for us.

BrianD3

BTW anyone know exactly what the story is with trailers - I've heard rumours that you don't need a specific licence to tow a trailer under a certain weight?

I can answer this. I only know about cars + trailers, not trucks etc.

If you have a full B licence you may tow a trailer if:
the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg
or
the total design gross vehicle weight of the towing vehicle plus the trailer does not exceed 3500 kg.

Otherwise, you need an EB licence. AFAIK, EB used to be awarded automatically with B but not anymore. To get an EB full licence nowadays, you need to do a car + trailer driving test.

Design gross vehcile weight is the key to all this. An average saloon car like a Mondeo would probably have a d.g.v.w of around 1700-2000 kg. This is the max permissable weight of the car, fully laden with luggage and passengers. The d.g..v.w is stated in the vehicles handbook and on the chassis plate.

Similar story with trailers. It's the max laden weight that is important, not the empty weight/kerb weight. Again this should be stated on a plate on the trailer hitch.

BrianD3

MojoMaker

Originally posted by a_ominous
You need a bike > 150cc to do the test for A licence. Yes I know this leaves a gap from 125cc (A1 licence) to 150cc, but thems the rules.

Not anymore a_ominous. That changed back in 2003, just need > 125cc now (like it should have been all along, the clowns).

Turner

Nice one Seamus..

And yeah sticky this baby... I think everybody is sick of "wooo hooo where do i get me licence" threads.

Chief.

a_ominous

Originally posted by MojoMaker
Not anymore a_ominous. That changed back in 2003, just need > 125cc now (like it should have been all along, the clowns).

That's good. I did my test in Feb 2003. The acknowledgement letter I received from DoE said it had to be >150cc.

On a related point, there is a pilot scheme running in Churchtown ATM. People are being asked basic questions about where to put oil / coolant / brake fluid. Cars and bikes. Not part of the test yet, but expect it will be in future. Would like to see emergency stop, parallel parking, changing a wheel...

Michelangelo

please stick this.:)

GreeBo

I had a provisional about 5 years ago, i.e. its well out of date, do I need to do this Theory Test to apply for my second provisional?

Cheers,

mike65

Consider this stuck.

Mike.

seamus

GreeBo wrote:

I had a provisional about 5 years ago, i.e. its well out of date, do I need to do this Theory Test to apply for my second provisional?

Cheers,

If it's 5 years since your provisional licence expired, you will need to do a theory test to get another one (but you will be getting a first provisional again, not a second).

GreeBo

seamus wrote:

If it's 5 years since your provisional licence expired, you will need to do a theory test to get another one (but you will be getting a first provisional again, not a second).

does that mean for insurance purposes I need a full license in the car with me so?
:eek:

Seth Brundle

@ Greebo - yes!

The Muppet

Is a person who held a provisional license pre 1992 entitled to drive unaccompanied. I,m sure I read it in the rules of the road book at one stage.

Seth Brundle

not sure I follow, are you suggesting that someone who is holding a prov licence now that originated before 1992 can drive unaccompanied?
If the licence was that old it would have expired.

The Muppet

kbannon wrote:

not sure I follow, are you suggesting that someone who is holding a prov licence now that originated before 1992 can drive unaccompanied?
If the licence was that old it would have expired.

Not sure on the technicalaties but I am sure its in the rules of the road booklet under what you can and can not do on a provisional so if anyone has a copy maybe they would clarify. As far as I can remember it just states that anyone that held a license prior to 92?? was entitled to drive unaccompanied. I assume if the continued to renew their license it would never expire as such,

seamus

No, they can't. It doesn't say anywhere on the provisional licence application.

Basically, you don't renew a provisional licence. One licence expires, and you apply for a brand new provisional licence. That's one purpose of first, second, third etc, afaik.

The Muppet

seamus wrote:

No, they can't. It doesn't say anywhere on the provisional licence application.

Basically, you don't renew a provisional licence. One licence expires, and you apply for a brand new provisional licence. That's one purpose of first, second, third etc, afaik.

I Found my copy of the rules of the road I got the dates wrong in my original post but according to it anyone who held a provisional license prior to August 85 is entitled to drive unaccompanied.

Page 7

A provisional licence holder must. while driving any vehicle be accompanied by a person holding a driving licence for the catagory of vehicle being driven. This condition does not apply

[a] to a person who held a provisional licence in respect of the "old" class C (ie. a car) prior to the 12th August 1985.

to the holder of a second provisional licence

[c] the holder of a provisional licence in respect of catagory A, A1, W

Seth Brundle

Fair enough but these don't exist as the last one of these licences would have expired by now (presumably in 1987)!

The Muppet

kbannon wrote:

Fair enough but these don't exist as the last one of these licences would have expired by now (presumably in 1987)!

Well the way I read it is that anyone that held a Provisional licence prior to 1985 is eligble to drive unaccompanied. If this entitlement had expired why include any reference to it in the current version of the rules of the road.

I may be wrong but my own thinking on this is that In 1985 provisional licence holders were legally entitled to drive unaccompanied so as Irish law can not be backdated when implemented the government could not take away this right when they changed the law.

Maybe someone with a legal background could clarify this situation.

Seth Brundle

Again, fair enough!
However, when was the last time the ROTR were properly updated?

The Muppet

kbannon wrote:

Again, fair enough!
However, when was the last time the ROTR were properly updated?

There's a foreword dated June 1995 form then minister Brendan Howlin in the one I have and its the twentieth reprint dated 2004. As I said its the current version.

seamus

I think they've probably removed the reference to it on the application form because nobody holds one of these licences any longer.

They would have received a full licence in the amnesty.

The Muppet

seamus wrote:

I think they've probably removed the reference to it on the application form because nobody holds one of these licences any longer.

They would have received a full licence in the amnesty.

Amnesty licences were not given to everyone with a provisional at the time . There was certain criterian that had to be met. I had a provisional in 1985 but I was not entitled to an Amnesty Licence.

TommyK

The Muppet wrote:

Well the way I read it is that anyone that held a Provisional licence prior to 1985 is eligble to drive unaccompanied. If this entitlement had expired why include any reference to it in the current version of the rules of the road.

I may be wrong but my own thinking on this is that In 1985 provisional licence holders were legally entitled to drive unaccompanied so as Irish law can not be backdated when implemented the government could not take away this right when they changed the law.

Maybe someone with a legal background could clarify this situation.

You must have read it wrong . . . A provisional licence is not a driving licence - it's a licence issued to allow you to drive on public roads for the purposes of learning to drive (hope that came out right).

Anyone who needs to hold a provisional licence for 19 years has some serious problems and shouldn't be allowed on the road at all!

It was probably that case that, before 1985, anyone holding a Provisional AT THE TIME didn't need to be acompanied. Then the law was changed and, when all those "No Accompanied Driver Required" licences expired, any new ones issued after that were those where the holder must be accompanied.

There was never any issue about anyone having a "right" to drive unaccompanied without doing a driving test and your thinking is wrong and, if you'll forgive the sentiment, you sound like a bit of a pedant - bet you like to stand in Governemnt offices roaring at some poor minimum wage sod about stuff like this!

(That was a joke . . . honest!!)

Tommy.

The Muppet

TommyK wrote:

You must have read it wrong . . . A provisional licence is not a driving licence - it's a licence issued to allow you to drive on public roads for the purposes of learning to drive (hope that came out right).

Anyone who needs to hold a provisional licence for 19 years has some serious problems and shouldn't be allowed on the road at all!

It was probably that case that, before 1985, anyone holding a Provisional AT THE TIME didn't need to be acompanied. Then the law was changed and, when all those "No Accompanied Driver Required" licences expired, any new ones issued after that were those where the holder must be accompanied.

There was never any issue about anyone having a "right" to drive unaccompanied without doing a driving test and your thinking is wrong and, if you'll forgive the sentiment, you sound like a bit of a pedant - bet you like to stand in Governemnt offices roaring at some poor minimum wage sod about stuff like this!


(That was a joke . . . honest!!)



Tommy.

Whats you legal backgroung ? As i see you are expressing your opinion. I am not arguing with anyone here. I am questioning a quote from the current official rules of the the road to see if anyone knows the actual legal position on this .In other words the actual current legal position rather that anyones interpretation of it. One way or the other it doesn't affect me personally but it's an intersting topic and is relevant to this thread,


Its safe to assume you're not a comedian by profession. Don't give up the day job .

Hal1

Anyone know the postal address for provisional licence applications? It will be my second provo licence btw so I wont have to do a theory will I?

p.s. my last licence expired in 01.

Raz

Can anyone shed some light on the issue of driving unaccompanied on a provisional B licence?
I've got a second provisional and my dad was told by a Garda that I can't drive on my own. Though everywhere I've checked states that I can.

Couple of sources,
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html#id3119947
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=2970&lang=ENG&loc=1233

If this was changed then why is it not stated on any of these official sites?

seamus

Raz wrote:

Can anyone shed some light on the issue of driving unaccompanied on a provisional B licence?
I've got a second provisional and my dad was told by a Garda that I can't drive on my own. Though everywhere I've checked states that I can.

Couple of sources,
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html#id3119947
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=2970&lang=ENG&loc=1233

If this was changed then why is it not stated on any of these official sites?

It hasn't been changed. Obviously there was a misunderstanding between your Dad and the Garda.

Raz

seamus wrote:

It hasn't been changed. Obviously there was a misunderstanding between your Dad and the Garda.

Excellent

Hotblack Desiato

If you have an entitlement on a licence or a provisional licence, you will keep that entitlement when you renew it. Let it lapse for long enough (5 years for a provisional, 10 years for a full licence) and you will have to start at the beginning again.

Restricted class A bike licences were brought in in late 1999. If you had a provisional before that, it was unrestricted, and you're entitled to keep renewing it as an unrestricted licence as long as you don't let it lapse.

Same thing with other entitlements, years ago car drivers got light truck automatically, as long as they don't let the licence lapse they will retain that entitlement.

Someone was asking about the Rules of the Road - the last proper revision of it was in 1991 :mad:

A good site for licensing etc. is
http://www.soyouwanttodrive.com

For bike licences etc.
http://www.magireland.org

Webmonkey

What is a 2nd, 3rd Provisonal License? I am a little confused by this. Is it your second in which a year later you renew it or something?
Just wondering as i've read earlier on, if you have a 2nd provisional that you can drive on your own.
Thanks

Seth Brundle

1st provisional lasts for 2 years and the driver must be accompanied when driving at all times by a fully licenced driver.
2nd porovisional is awarded when the 1st expires. No need for a fully licenced driver beside you. This lasts for two years.
3rd provisional is awarded after the 2nd expires and you have not passed a driving test. Back to having your ma go out with you when cruising for chicks! Again these last for 2 years and when they expire I think you apply for another 3rd
See www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html

the jew

has anybody passed their test in the last couple of months, with the new changes. is it just stuff about the engine they ask you thats extra? what all would they ask you about it.

robz150

the jew wrote:

has anybody passed their test in the last couple of months, with the new changes. is it just stuff about the engine they ask you thats extra? what all would they ask you about it.

From http://www.drivingtest.ie

Technical Checks.
You will be asked to explain how a check would be performed on any three of the following-
(a) tyres, (b) lights, (c) reflectors, (d) indicators, (e) engine oil, (f) coolant,
(g) windscreen washer fluid, (h) steering, (i) brakes, (j) horn.

Access to some of the items listed above will require you to open the bonnet and to close it securely.

As long as you can open the Engine and point out where they are.

The Clown Man

Here's one that I could use a little advice on:

I'm 24 with a full B licence and that's that.

However, I was thinking that I would love to be able to get licenced for A as well so that I can drive both cars and bikes.

Now the main reason for this is because I think it would be handy to have on holidays for renting bikes to get around (I had one on holidays in Thailand where licenses are optional) and if I ever find myself with a little money to splash out on a pleasure bike. (I couldn't stay out in the rain all the time!)

I dont have access to a bike. I'm not going to buy a bike. I just want to do a few lessons and get my license to ride a bike.

How?

seamus

The Clown Man wrote:

Here's one that I could use a little advice on:

I'm 24 with a full B licence and that's that.

However, I was thinking that I would love to be able to get licenced for A as well so that I can drive both cars and bikes.

Now the main reason for this is because I think it would be handy to have on holidays for renting bikes to get around (I had one on holidays in Thailand where licenses are optional) and if I ever find myself with a little money to splash out on a pleasure bike. (I couldn't stay out in the rain all the time!)

I dont have access to a bike. I'm not going to buy a bike. I just want to do a few lessons and get my license to ride a bike.

How?

Not cheaply anyway. ISM do motorcycle lessons and will rent you a bike for lessons and tests. There are also another crew mentioned in the Motorcycle FAQ, who would be just as good.

Renting the motorbike is the most expensive part. You'll want a good few lessons, a pretest and a bike for the test. I reckon that you're looking at the guts of €1500.

Before you can get your provisional A licence, you'll also need to do a theory test (assuming you haven't done one before for the B licence). Since bike test are subject to the same delays as car tests, you'll want to apply now or use the same "work letter" trickery that everyone seems to be doing these days, to get a test.

Goolay

Hiya,
I lost me wallet yesterday and one of the things in it was my provisional driving license. Does anyone know the procedure required in order to get a replacement, I'm presuming the first port of call would be the Gardai. Any help would be greatly appreciated,
cheers

MrPudding

I have a full NI driving license, and I want to keep it. I also want to learn to ride a bike. Can I just apply for a provisional bike license down here (after the theory test of course) or should I get motorbike added to my NI license and do the test up there?

MrP

Necronomicon

Hey all, just a quick question: How much has the provisional test changed? Supposedly it's gone up to 80 questions to cater for a new metric section of the test, but are the older questions still the same?
I got the Theory Test cd-rom, with a sticker on it saying it's updated for the new test. But the cd-rom itself is still the old 40-question test with the questions in m.p.h. The only difference is that there is a leaflet with all the new questions you may be asked, in kilometres. Are the questions that are on the old cd-rom still being asked? Thanks.
It's my own fault, I had aaages to apply and do the damn thing, I knew it was changing