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Donegal problem with a salutary lesson for us all

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  • 06-11-2002 10:51am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭


    At the last meeting of Udarás na Gaeltachta on friday , the matter of the very first of the Dept of Marine and Comms infamous fibre rings came up for heated discussion.

    The first fibre ring sponsored by the government was laid in northwest Donegal, roughly Letterkenny out to GaothDobhair and then south to Killybegs. This was done in 1999/2000 . €ircon took a lot of money from Mary O'Rourke to lay it. Funnily enough, having done so, they NEVER lit the thing.

    €ircon are resolutely refusing to provide any services on this fibre. The Udarás have been into Dermie Ahern who has cooooo-ed sympathy but can (or will) do feck all about it.

    Not surprisingly the local knowledge based industries cannot expand with only basic rate IDSN and the Udarás cannot attract any more enterprises to the area to Replace the many jobs lost in GaothDobhair in the past year or so.

    One lot have a plan to employ 100's of people in a back office arrangement in north west Donegal and are stuck on 14 staff and one basic rate ISDN and no expansion possibilities until that fibre is lit because €ircon do not 'have the capacity' to provide them with more bandwidth.

    Another E-Tub of Europe ®©¯®©™ special.

    M


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    For the uninitiatied like me:
    What is the big deal about lighting it from Eircom's point of view?
    How expensive would it be for them?
    Are they reluctant 'cos they feel they would lose other revenues - if so from where? What migth be the scale?
    Would many users connect to it if it was lit? Who - companies, skools? public bodies?
    Is this a case study that is also likely to apply to the metropolitan rings or are there circumstances that make this Donegal story unique?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Dun


    Was it extended to Buncrana as well or was it just a rumour I heard? There was some kinda thing about it after the Fruit of the Loom factories (all but) closed down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    As far as I know it cost about as much to light it as it does to lay it. In other words, it's pretty expensive. Given that Eircom are cutting capital expenditure and the fact that they must be making a fortune off ISDN dial-up, I'm sure they are in no hurry to light it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    this was a special state funded attempt to upgrade the Donegal infrastructure in view of the horrendous unemployment rates there in the Celtic Tiger years.

    €ircon took the money in the full knowledge of what the government policy was. Logically it would have provided SDH or similar from their exchanges in west Donegal so that they could then offer copper out.

    By deliberately 'Stranding' the fibre they can only offer Basic Rate ISDN at per minute rates.

    The fibre is therefore a hole in the ground with glass in it.

    We should take our money back in full or nationalise the glass in the hole.

    M


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭pork99


    The fibre is therefore a hole in the ground with glass in it.

    what €ircon have done here and in other cases verges on fraud & sabotage

    A competent government would treat this situation as an emergency and take extreme measures i.e. confiscate the country's telecoms infrastructure from eircom who are mismanaging it. The provision of services would then be open to full competition.

    However I cannot see any government having the foresight or moral courage to do anything like this


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭MDR


    I think we could could use this ...


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    it all makes me think of the film Total Recall. The Aliens(government expenditure on Fibre) build a huge Oxygen making machine(Fibre Network). The baddie(€ircon) refuses to turn it on(light the fibre) and they give loads of excuses as to why they shouldn't. Arnie(IoffL) kick some ass so that the oxygen making machine(Fibre) can be turned on(lit). We could call it 'Total Incompetance....The €ircon Story'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭El_MUERkO


    We should take our money back in full or nationalise the glass in the hole.

    that should read

    We should take our money back in full and nationalise the glass in the hole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    that would be more like it El M

    and send the Donegal guards in to shoot anybody who resists.

    M


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Originally posted by pork99
    However I cannot see any government having the foresight or moral courage to do anything like this

    No-one is willing to piss of the shareholders any further by lowering eircom's value even more through compulsory seizing of the network. Pity.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    the worst thing the government ever did was sell off Telecom Eireann.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    what shareholders - a bunch of banks and a guy who has lived in the USA for 30 years and doesn't pay any irish tax
    who cares not us thats for sure
    nationalise the fibre i say !!!!!!
    2 years ago i was it director that wanted to put a 2mb atm line (give us some headroom) told our nearest pop letterkenny and cost of abot quarter of a mill to connect. eircoma s a service provider are a waste of space.

    Internet! Is that thing still around? - homer simpson


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by vinnyfitz
    For the uninitiatied like me:
    What is the big deal about lighting it from Eircom's point of view?
    The cynic would say money is the big deal.

    How expensive would it be for them?
    This same cynic would say that the the expense would be in direct proportion to the amount they could extort from the tax payer given their monopoly status.
    Are they reluctant 'cos they feel they would lose other revenues - if so from where?
    It depends on what is meant by "lighting the fibre". If they mean putting two torch bulbs at either end of the fibre, then no. I don't really know what they mean. One possibility might be DSL etc, but this would certainly have an impact on both leased line and dial-up/ISDN revenue. They would probably want the tax payer to compensate them for this, the cynic would add.
    What migth be the scale?
    Presumably, again, this would depend on how much the Government is prepared to cough up.
    Would many users connect to it if it was lit? Who - companies, skools? public bodies?
    I would imagine that would be the Governments priority.
    Is this a case study that is also likely to apply to the metropolitan rings or are there circumstances that make this Donegal story unique?
    The fibre rings project is not supposed to be allowed to be dominated by one company. The subsidised fibre ring in Donegal is wholly owned by Eircom.

    I have an open view on the fibre rings project. I think it will likely make the towns concerned more attractive to companies looking for high capacity services. I think it is unlikely to deliver services to the home in the short term (next 2-3 years) because I don't think competitive last mile carriers will appear to any great extent in that time.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    Originally posted by SkepticOne
    I don't really know what they mean. One possibility might be DSL

    I thought DSL couldn't operate over Fibre?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by LFCFan
    I thought DSL couldn't operate over Fibre?
    No, what I meant is that DSL would be the driver that would make it "economical" to light the fibre.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    Originally posted by SkepticOne
    No, what I meant is that DSL would be the driver that would make it "economical" to light the fibre.

    Oh right. Is there anywhere you can find out exactly where Fibre has been layed? Would it make sense for €ircon to lay fibre to the door of new houses in new estates if there is a fibre network in existance in the area? Obviously it would be redundant until they lit the fibre network but it would save a lot of digging up in the future? I know there's no chance that they do lay fibre in new estates though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    No, what I meant is that DSL would be the driver that would make it "economical" to light the fibre.

    but when Eircons twisted logic marketing department look at the situation they will say ... well there is no demand for broadband, everyone is happy with 56k and ISDN ... => no need to light the fibre ...

    I think that it is incredible that any private company can get subsidys to put down infrastructure and then not use it ... surely the government did more than say "Right Eircon, here's 20 million squids for that cable thingy, don't spend it all in one shop a-ha":mad: .. those flutes that make up the contracts for this type of thing must be in Eircons back pocket if this is the sort of carry on...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    yes surely, they didnt just do that -- surely the main task was the internet and not a way of soaking up local labour to lay some of the lines and surely this was not done when the goverment had mary o waster..i mean surely...they dont have a clue


    it is muppet central in there


    also , before all ye commies start talking about nationalising -- remember the government cant repurchase due to eu rules...well at least that is my understanding of it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    also , before all ye commies start talking about nationalising

    Uh, commies? Hello?

    adam


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    The more I think about it (and lets face it cynicalism about our elected officials is often spot on) the more I think it was just a PR stunt (expensive PR stunt, but I dont think that money was an issue at the time) by the then government .... they can say look - we are investing in infrastructure in the region - and the next time that an election comes around they would be saying that it is currently being worked on and everyone will be happy... they no more give a damn (as can be seen, it still isnt lit/working) about infrastructure than the my daughter does ... it all comes down to votes


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 Rez-N-8


    Is there any way we can take legal action against eircon for this? If there is i think there should be a case built and take eircon to court. I live in main st of a town called dunfanaghy in northwest donegal. Every day i walk out the door i walk over unlit fibre it is sicking fecking sicking.

    Rowan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Why not light a portion yourselves, run a gigabit ethernet from one school to another in the town as a protest.

    €ircon can hardly object to your squatting a cable they don't use now can they?

    All you need is 2 x Gigabit Ethernet Fibre Network Cards instead of the usual Copper and a fibre jointing box and a bit of fibre of yeer own.

    There is no danger coz there is no electricity now is there ?

    M


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭pork99


    before all ye commies start talking about nationalising

    no the point of taking back the infrastructure would be to have level playing field for service providers, thus encouraging market competition in this industry and benefiting the consumer

    nothing to do with communism


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭DonegalMan


    Muck

    I've pm'd you about some action we are planning for Donegal.

    Martin


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