Would you wear a Poppy?

daveg

My grandad fought in the WW2 so I would wear one.

Zombrex

It was complicated, but my reading of it was that a lot of people signed up for world war one on the basis they were told they would be 'earning' home rule.

it wasn't so much that they were "earning" home rule, more that they were saying thank you for home rule.

They believed that they had achieved home rule (da fools) and that now it was time to fight with the English against the evil Germans.

But don't forget that back in 1914 a lot of people felt war was not neccessarily a bad thing, and could even be a good thing. Everyone believed that the war would be over quickly, and they believed that German and its allies were a serious threat to both England and Ireland. No one imagined the horrors that waited the Irish men, least of all Redmond and co.

Kix

Would anyone be willing to send me one?

It would particularly mean a lot to my girlfriend who's really wanted to get one for the last two years.

At least she's have it for next year.

K

sceptre

Originally posted by Kix
Would anyone be willing to send me one?

I've not seen anyone selling them (but then again in the mid-west someone selling poppies would probably get beaten up)

There are some region contacts from the British legion here - at a guess the chap from Norn Iron would at least know how to get your hands on one (he'd probably be amazed and pleased that someone south of the border asked). The poppy official website is @ www.poppy.org.uk

Chaos-Engine

Almost all the men on my fathers side of the family have fought in the wars that Ireland was in(under the Brit Empire) and not in(WW2). My Great Great Grandfather died in the Boer war and is on the Stephens Green Arch...
Saying this I wouldn't wear a poppy. It symbolises British success in war and thanks those that fought for the crown. I'm not anti-british but why don't they commemorate all those that died in the wars. Not just British men and their allies.

What about the Germans I say??

And not forgetting the civilians

Or the 19 million that died in the Flu epademic in 1919??

I say why not commemorate war in such a way that it has no honour.
BE ANTI-WAR

War is bad. Is that not a simple fact of history. Don't give me that crap that it helps stop injustice. It just serves to preserve the elite that currently hold power. I'm no lefty looney. I just hate war. I was in Croatia with my father in 1995 and saw some terrible things.

Wear the CND badge. I know its about Nuclear Disarmenment but it has a duel purpose

cujimmy

I wore one for the past few days

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

PH01

Originally posted by daveirl
Dual purpose

But seriously I wouldn't wear one myself but I'm not a symbol wearing type of guy. I don't wear daffodils on daffodil day or anything, but I think anyone who wants should wear one without having some bigot on their case!

I'm not being smart or anything but don't you, and everybody, wear symbols or badges all the time in the form of designer or brand labels?
If you wear a Polo shirt which has a little horsey and a polo player design on the front, or if you wear a football shirt with the team and sponsors logo on display, you're saying and stating something?

Dustaz

Originally posted by DiscoStu
the fact is that the contribution of the irish who fought for the british army is ignored in large by the british army and government, so i dont think it is really appropriate to wear one.

Why do you say this?

The brittish army scaled back its irish regiments (of which there were plenty) after Irelands Independance but to this day there are 2 irish regiments, including one guards regiment. It was the Irish Guards who carried the queen mothers coffin at her funeral (one from Dublin, one from Limerick). The Army brings these soldiers of both these regiments to war graves in france and belgium to lay flowers and commemorate the dead of thier regiments every year. Its more than they do for the Canadians.

meglome

Tough one...

I'm very anti-war and have no love for the British military. But in Ireland we are a bit allergic to remembering our war dead, probably as they fought mostly for Britain. I can understand this sentiment but maybe the state should make more of an effort. As for wearing poppies, it seems to me it's a completely British symbol and has little relevance to Ireland today. We should change the symbolism and that would help immensely.

I've always had a problem with the way the first world is remembered anyway. A good chuck of the men who died, did so out of the complete incompetence of their commanders, millions perhaps. That is something which is hard to swallow, what an utter waste. Glorious sacrifice… I think not.

Bard

Originally posted by PH01
I'm not being smart or anything but don't you, and everybody, wear symbols or badges all the time in the form of designer or brand labels?

That's completely different. Wearing Levis as opposed to, say, St. Bernard isn't making a statement, political or otherwise... unless that statement is "I like these pants".

If you wear a Polo shirt which has a little horsey and a polo player design on the front, or if you wear a football shirt with the team and sponsors logo on display, you're saying and stating something?

Not really, no. Well at least I'm not... but I'm not one thats particularly swayed by big brand names as opposed to quality.

And no, I wouldn't wear a poppy... for the same reasons as many here. I don't feel the need to wear some little symbol to portray out loud to the world that I support or sympathise with someone.

In the same way, I'll contribute to charities on the street but will tell them to keep the stupid little sticker or pin they want to put on the lapel of my jacket.

mm.ie

You know its funny. I would wear a poppy but I would not wear an easter lilly.

Why?

Because I like to remember the politically incorrect (since about 1922) Irishmen who gave their lives in the great war of 1914-18.

I would not wear an easter lily because its symbolysm has been hijacked by northern republicans, and I would not wear it in case somebody would understand by it that I supported a load of marxist murderers.

mike65

As stated above I dont wear such symbols but I certainly dont object to others doing so.

However, and this is slightly a side issue, I dont like the way that the media in the UK make such a show of rememberence, every last man Jack seems to be wearing a poppy regardless of context. I guess its an unwritten rule that everyone on the telly should be wearing one. If so I'm agin that sort of pressure to conform to an "acceptable" norm.

Mike.

Victor

Whatever about various memorials in existance, there appears to be little for the victims of 1916, 1918-1921, 1922-1923 and 1969-1998 and various other domestic incidents, in which approximately 10,000 people have died in total.

When is the Day of Remembrance here? I know it is held separately, but not sure when.

Some Irish War Memorials

Garden of Remembrance (all wars & UN actions)
http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/ParksandGardens/DublinArea/GardenofRemembranceDublin/

War Memorial Gardens (WWI memorial - 49,400 dead)
http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/ParksandGardens/DublinArea/WarMemorialGardensDublin/

St Stephens Green (South African War Memorial Arch - 800 dead)
http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/ParksandGardens/DublinArea/StStephensGreenDublin/ (South African War Memorial)

WWII Merchant Navy Memorial (several dozen dead)
City Quay Dublin

---

A (very) brief history of Ireland (from the BBC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A698862

Victor

The story I alluded to earlier. Apologies if it is off-topic.

I went to Belgium in November 1998 to attend the opening of the Irish monument at Messines / Mesen. I got hassled by immigration on the way back (and on the way out, "Sir, please do not brandish the pocket knife on the hovercraft" :rolleyes:) - lone, young, Irish male and all that, so I kept them chatting for about ten minutes and then produced this.

mike65

I hope they looked appropriatly awkward....

Mike.

Victor

From http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/viewitem.asp?id=140&lang=ENG

The Commemoration Initiatives Fund is a fund established to make resources available to groups and organisations for the study and commemoration of historic events of national importance. By providing financial support to local organisations, the aim of the Fund is to assist and encourage the development of local programmes of commemoration. Given the limited budget available, such funding is, in general and by necessity, of a token nature.

In assessing projects for funding issues such as:
impact
significance and relevance
geographic spread
balance between popular and academic
educational content and
viability
are taken into account.
For further information contact Northern_ireland@taoiseach.gov.ie

rien_du_tout

I personally dont agree with wearing a poppy due to additional symbolic value which the English give it. I agree with commemoration of the dead on all sides.

I do thing its stange that anything nationalistic can be taken to be violently republican. For example its not advised to sing rebel songs at school shows even though the person has a great talent for them.

seán

Dyr

Fascinating to see theres so many people who only wear the poppy to show their deep admiration for the irish men and women who died to save our country from being overrun by a foreign government.

One presumes that their admiration for their fellow countrymens sacrifice runs so deep that they all religiously celebrate veterans day to remember the Irish who died in the service of the United States armed forces? of course they do :rolleyes:

The poppy is not an apolitical symbol because most of the people in this country who promote do not want it to be, its a symbol they use to highlight their political viewpoint, just as an easter lily is. Bit of honesty wouldnt go amiss here.

Incidentally, Im not quite sure what all this fuss about concentration camps and world war two is. The british army ran the first concentration camps, but sure, unlike the shutzstaffel and heer camp guards they were just doing what the politicians told them.

billy the squid

Incidentally, Im not quite sure what all this fuss about concentration camps and world war two is. The british army ran the first concentration camps, but sure, unlike the shutzstaffel and heer camp guards they were just doing what the politicians told them.

first let me be the first to welcome this thread to 2005,

second a point of order if you please. the british were not in fact the first army to use concentration camps, it was in fact the spannish during the war they had in the late 19th century with the United states.

the theory that the brittish were the first to employ concentration camps during the boer war is indeed a myth.

AmenToThat

As far as I know some of the money from the sale of the poppy's goes towards the care of ex soldiers who have fallen on hard times and other causes sorrounding the issues of ex servicemen and women.

As such how am I to know that some of that money will not go to ex serving members of the parachute regiment who spent many years behaving like dogs on this island or men returning from that bastard war in Iraq or those who killed young Argentinian constripts on a pair of islands in the south Altantic to save Margaret Thatchers political career!

If it was only to remember those who fought in the second world war then maybe but even here I have difficulty with some of the actions of the British army such as the fire bombing of Dresden.
I saw an interview only the other week with two surviving members of the RAF who showed absolutely no remorse for the events at Dresden and I simply cant imagen putting my hand in my pocket if it was even possible that auld bigots like that might benefit from it.

I have no problem with those who would wear a poppy and I personally know one woman who used to sell them locally for the British Legion (I think) but theres no way Id ever wear one myself.

Slutmonkey57b

AmenToThat wrote:

... or those who killed young Argentinian constripts on a pair of islands in the south Altantic to save Margaret Thatchers political career!

Comments like that just make you look like you're little more than a knee-jerk reactionary Brit-hater you know.
Argentina invaded the Falklands, Britain didn't invade Argentina. Desperatly wishing that it was the hated Brits who were the aggressors and sailed all the way down there to start a war doesn't make it so...

AmenToThat

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Comments like that do little to dispel the view that you're little more than a knee-jerk reactionary Brit-hater you know.

So the fact that I have dared to show the flip side of the coin of the activities of the British army over the years makes me a 'Brit-hater' in your opinion.
That is one of the most pathetic comments Iv seen posted on this board and factually innacurate.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Argentina invaded the Falklands, Britain didn't invade' Argentina. Desperatly wishing that it was the hated Brits who were the aggressors and sailed all the way down there to start a war doesn't make it so...

The Falklands were invaded by the Argentians for purely political reasons, Britian in turn responed for purely political reason.
Reasons the led to the death of many young men most of whom if you asked could not have found the Islands on a map.
To use it as a means to brand me as a 'Brit-hater' again shows you up as a nasty peace of work who will take comments and reinterpret them to brand a person whether factually accurate or not.

So in future if your going to attack me personally rather than the points I make Id prefere if your just ingnored my posts and Ill do the same for you.
Is this acceptable to you?

Slutmonkey57b

I'm actually not attacking you, I'm pointing out to you how some of your comments make you look (post edited before you commented to reflect that).

Your comment I quoted above is factually misleading and weighted to get a maximim dig in at british servicemen for carrying out their duty - responding to an invasion. If you're going to have a go at the British for responding to an invasion, even when there's no evidence that they ever did anything wrong (unlike the curent war they're mixed up in), then why did you bring it up?

Do you also want to have a go at them for intervening in Kosovo? How about Sierra Leone? My point is that while there may be lots of legitimate instances where the British army has been in the wrong, or individual units or men have commited crimes, picking out an example of an instance where they did nowrong and whacking them with it smacks of... well, knee-jerk reactionism, that's all.

Slutmonkey57b

Also, for all the complaints about the Imperialist British Army that people like to make (not just in this country), you have to remember that the army relied to a very large extent on local conscripts - so a lot of the imperialist aggression in Inda for example would have been carried out (quite enthusiastically) by Irish, scottish and other anti-english nations. Even Indian units would have participated in the suppression of Indiam opponants (due to the complex social and political structure of the country).

So really, I can't see how there's an argument for saying "oh I'd wear a poppy for our brave irishmen but not for those evil brits *spit*". To all intents and purposes they were one and the same, though people would like to think otherwise.

Hobbes

Bambi wrote:

[wiki]Dragging Up Old Posts[/wiki]

Bambi

Bambi wrote:

Fascinating to see theres so many people who only wear the poppy to show their deep admiration for the irish men and women who died to save our country from being overrun by a foreign government.

You know, you could have started a new thread and linked to this one rather than drag up a 3 year old thread...
Closed.