Motion of No Confidence - Mr McCreevy

Originally posted by Cork

Everything looks pretty bleak.

Ah don't say that Cork.
It actually says a lot for what it is possible to achieve in this country that, despite a major global slowdown we're still at the top of the Euro growth ladder
Your chances of getting some kind of a decent paying job here are much better than in many other western countries.
Peoples expectations have risen over the last decade as the country kept on pumping at the pace it was.
These cutbacks though they are not nice, aren't a sign that our Economy is in freefall and heading for the abyss that was the 1980's, with high unemployment,high taxes, high inflation, high emmigration etc.

You should put the thing in perspective, what we are seeing in my view is a minister governing.
Far better that these things are done now than later.
mm

daveirl

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Cork

I think that there is so much waste in the system - What are all those health boards doing? Teachers getting away with short school years? Needless Roads being built etc. Funds are being squandered. The Government has to take on the unions or else our economy will be in freefall.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Funds are being squandered.

Well, that's certainly true. To be fair (and before I get accused of going on an anti-FF rant) it could be true of any government in the past 20 years but it's certainly true over the past five years.

McCreevy has little or no direct control over how, say, the Minister for Health spends the money he gives him. Ministers/chief civil servants prepare their estimates for the year, get told to bugger off, make new estimates, get money, spend it any way they wish. It's a bit simplistic but broadly speaking it's true.

So discussing the general wastage in this (or any other government) - the money wasted on unlit fibre corridors, the unnecessary localised structure of some of our health boards (agree with you there), particular road expenditure, underground car parks for TDs - all these are discussions for another thread. Mc Creevy doesn't approve or deny expenditure for these particular things. Building Ceaucescu stadiums in west Dublin is another thing strictly speaking not controlled by McCreevy but it's a single project with such a potential large entry on the books that effectively he just had to deny funding to the particular department to block it.

The one "wastage" issue people might have over which McCreeevy wields some control is the benchmarking one. If people want to discuss that one here it's at least relevant (personally I think it's been necessary, it will happen and the most McCreevy can do is delay it)

This has been a fairly good discussion so far - wouldn't want to see it dragged off topic this early.

daveirl

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Cork

The one "wastage" issue people might have over which McCreeevy wields some control is the benchmarking one. If people want to discuss that one here it's at least relevant (personally I think it's been necessary, it will happen and the most McCreevy can do is delay it)

I agree and it will cause government spending to go though the roof.

I think the Government will not take on the Unions. And Unions will not quash the benchmaking report for the national interest.

If this report is implemented - Public service unions will be out on strike looking for relativity.

I think the Government has to take on the unions, They will not & we will be back to High spending, high taxes and an economy taking a nose dive.

daveirl

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dahamsta

Ah, credit where credit is due - the "real" seamus ... said that.

Oops-a-daisy, sorry about that seamus. And seamus.

adam

Cork

the motion should have been after the book of estimates or even after the Budget. QUOTE]

Thats the opposition for you. I'd have no Confidence in them before the Government.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Thats the opposition for you. I'd have no Confidence in them before the Government.

Yeah, but you constantly seem to complain that you have no faith in the government either, so I fail to see your point.

And yes, I've heard your "best of a bad lot" platitude before. It still doesnt cut water. You have no faith in teh opposition, and no faith in the government. Proclaiming one as better then the other is nonsensical.

jc

I've just been listening to Joe Duffy.*warning- man's blood is boiling-end warning*

Basically on that show, an opposition TD said they had a letter from Mr McCreevy at the last election saying the economy was fine.

Was that the extent of their investigations?? or did they secretly know how little was left in the Kitty? and didn't want to mention it as the voters drunk on the tiger punch would firmly bash any party talking of cutbacks?
If they did know then theres no sense in them moaning about it as they are sharing some guilt for not telling the public and presenting the facts and figures last may.

If they did not even do the research, imagine how bad a government they would be.

There are a lot of people upset about the first time buyers grant, but don't builders add that onto the price of these houses anyway? Therefore it was a grant to line the builders pockets not the house buyers, an obvious target for a cutback.
mm

Paulg

The government should get rid of the interest tax relief for investers AGAIN. God knows why they brought it back last year.

Cork

Originally posted by bonkey
Yeah, but you constantly seem to complain that you have no faith in the government either, so I fail to see your point.

And yes, I've heard your "best of a bad lot" platitude before. It still doesnt cut water. You have no faith in teh opposition, and no faith in the government. Proclaiming one as better then the other is nonsensical.

jc

I think the government deserved to get re- elected. I like FF. I voted "NO" to Nice. I disagree with FF on many things but they are many things I like about them.

Nobody is perfect & within a organisation like FF - they are many openions.

We all don't follow the party line on everything.

But - truthfully - I am not a FF member but I vote for them more often than not.

Originally posted by Cork
But - truthfully - I am not a FF member but I vote for them more often than not.

*cough* and slightly off topic, you mean you voted for some one other than the party at some time:eek:
To be honest in my opinion theres beggar all difference between FG and FF, even on NI policy.
The only perceived difference is their stand on the civil war nearly a hundred years ago.
mm

Cork

There are big differences bewteen all partys. I think FF are better on both Northern Ireland and the Social patnership.

In my openion, FG are a party made up in my area by big farmers and business men.

Where as working people vote FF.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
In my openion, FG are a party made up in my area by big farmers and business men.

Where as working people vote FF.

Your opinion is not only continuing to go off-topic, but its a load of toss.

Look at the percentage that FG have in government - you're telling me that they get this from the votes of what can only be described as a group which makes up less than 1% of the voting population?

And no, I'm not interested in hearing a qualified "well, I actually meant...." explanation of that previous remark.

It is impossible from a logistics point of view, it is wrong, and it is offtopic. Drop it please.

jc

Cork

I agree that we are going off the topic - You should read John Waters views of the differences bewteen FF & FG.

Getting back to the topic. All political partys had access to the books before the election. They all produced giveaway manifestos.

Matt Cooper, Shane Ross, David McWilliams etc all pointed out the economy did not look too rosey.

The dogs in the street knew of the problem with government revenue.

seamus

Originally posted by Cork
The dogs in the street knew of the problem with government revenue.

But the dogs in the street weren't appearing on TV and going around to people's houses, lying through their teeth. To say that the electorate should have known is no justification of the lies. When a politician comes around to your house telling you stuff, you take it all with a pinch of salt. But you simply expect him to be colourful with his truths, not out-and-out lying.

I agree that all parties were equally to blame in pushing the 'economy is great' line, but after 5 years of unparalled income and growth, we had feck all to show for it, thanks to Charlie, and no-one in his party saw fit to point that out.

Cork

But the dogs in the street weren't appearing on TV

Matt Cooper and others all analysed the manifestos. I think the information was there. Maybe - these articles were confined to the Business Sections of newspapers.

But - The information was out there.