Is Eircom Slamming?

dahamsta

Slamming has been discussed here before - do a search on the word if you want to read up on it - but ultimately it's the process of targetting your opposition's customers to get them back onto your service, with procedures that are considered immoral or unethical, and these days quite often illegal. There are rules and regulations about slamming nearly everywhere these days, but it's never really been a huge problem in Ireland before now, because there hasn't been an appreciable amount of competition in the marketplace.

That seems to be starting to change though, and the amount of posts here about Eircom's marketing lately seems to demonstrate that Eircom are getting just a tiny bit worried. Now marketing is marketing, and they're free to do that as much or as little as they want, but there are rules, and when they break those rules, it becomes slamming, and slamming is illegal. So is Eircom slamming, or are they just marketing? The only real way to find out is to ask people, and that's why I'm here.

The rules are simple: Eircom is allowed try to win you back as a customer with one phone call and one letter, no more. So first of all, has Eircom sent you more than one letter, or phoned you more than once? Secondly, do you feel that Eircom's behaviour was acceptable? Did they offer you a deal you thought was a little dodgy, or did they diss your current operator with what you felt were lies or deceit? What kind of tone did they use with you? What kind of language? Did you feel threatened, or made to feel silly?

I'd like to hear all about your thoughts on this subject, so open the floodgates and let it out!

adam

Krouc

Is eircom slamming?

I didnt think that was even a question!

I know ppl that get calls monthly from a Rat on the other end of the line from Eircom.

Slam free,
Krouc

c0y0te

I switched to UTVIP about 6 to 8 weeks ago, so I'm expecting my first post-UTV eircon bill any day now.

So far - the only communication has been the standard letter informing me that I was changing my business to UTV. In a way I sort of hope they do try to contact me, so I can give them a pile of crap in return:)

c0y0te

Dotsie~tmp

Listen if Eircom want to call around with a product or service that could save money (whether they do or not is a different story) whats the problem. If XYZCOM called around or started "slamming" as you say (the word slam didnt come to mind when they came, obviously some americanism) selling some new super cheap broadband service i dont think id hear this whinge. Im glad they came. Plus im intelligent enough to be able to pick through sales shíte talk when i see it, so i dont need you or these rules to protect me thanks. If i dont want to talk to them ill say leave me alone.

Im not defending Eircom. They have cost me a lot of money and im glad to be on a better service atm, but seeing it as a personal grudge match is silly. And dont ask people to snitch for you, though i will asnwer your question. The were polite, made a simple offer & left when asked to.

so open the floodgates and let it out!

Let what out exactly? The info that will finaly see you win the battle against the evil corporation? It doesnt exist, only in ur head.

_______
Dotsie.

jd

Originally posted by dahamsta
Slamming has been discussed here before - do a search on the word if you want to read up on it -
adam

http://www.fcc.gov/slamming/

I don't think eircom ae moving people back to their service without permission...

sunbeam

Well I got the call late this afternoon. Call centre girl sounded almost sheepish when she asked if I would consider coming back. I expect she'd been getting an earful all day. I explained politely that we are saving roughly €100 per month with UTV and asked if Eircom was considering offering flatrate internet access in the near future. I threw in a question about the possiblilty of unsplitting our line too, explaining that I found the prospect of paying by the minute while connecting at 16.8k particularly objectionable. Both were met with 'um not as afar as I know...' She asked if it would be OK if she called back in a few months and I told her fine, if she could offer me flatrate. Hmmm as I 'only' had average Eircom bills of €280 I obviously wasn't spending enough to be in the 'we'll make you a special deal' category.

Incidently I was browsing the Eircom subscription service site at the weekend trying to get comparison info on peak time rates to try to convince a friend to go with UTV. Couldn't find them anywhere so clicked on the 'sign up' link just to see. Guess what? I couldn't sign up if I wanted to as they have detected I am using an ISP from outside the state!

Krouc

yeah UTV dont have an inex listing. Eircom are blocking anything like that as ppl were scamming a load of webspace for warez and the like by signing up.

Good on em! :P

Connected to a easier life,
Krouc

sunbeam

Just came across this on the UTV support newsgroup (I'll remove this if UTV or the mods object in any way to me reposting it!)

---

"Carl Stinson" <carl@stincey.com> wrote in message
news:hraltu8eap4l2n8kl6ggnqrc82qblpnk0e@4ax.com...
>
> Could any UTVip customers who have been contacted by Eircom to receive
> a 'winback' on their telephony service, give us some details such as:
>
>
> What did they say about our service ?
>
> What was the tone ?
>
> Did they infer we had acted improperly/fraudulently ?
>
> Did they imply they could return their telephone service to eircom and
> retain our internet service ?
>
> Did they imply they had to actually sign for the service ?
>
>
> Any other relevant info ...
>
>
>
> We've had some users unwittingly getting their CPS removed after one
> of these calls (which effectively means Eircom bill you for our dialup
> number - so no free 150 hours,etc). As you can imagine there appears
> to be a lot of misinformation on the subject and we'd like to get as
> much info from our users as possible at this stage.
>
>
> Carl.

dahamsta

Listen if Eircom want to call around with a product or service that could save money (whether they do or not is a different story) whats the problem.

There isn't, as long as they don't break the rules. If they break the rules, they're breaking the law.

Plus im intelligent enough to be able to pick through sales shíte talk when i see it, so i dont need you or these rules to protect me thanks.

Not everyone in Ireland may be as well informed as you or it. They need rules, in the same way handicapped people need carers. I suppose you don't care about them, eh?

seeing it as a personal grudge match is silly

I don't see it as a personal grudge match. I don't even have a telephone line at the moment, so I don't particularly care. I do care if they're breaking the rules, for the simple reason that they have too much power as it is.

And dont ask people to snitch for you

"Snitch"? What are you, twelve?

Let what out exactly? The info that will finaly see you win the battle against the evil corporation? It doesnt exist, only in ur head.

I don't see it as a battle, I see it as right and wrong.

I'm sorry you feel the need to talk to down to people in this way.

adam

dahamsta

I don't think eircom ae moving people back to their service without permission...

I've discussed this before: I concede that the behaviour I'm discussing isn't "slamming" as the FCC has defined it, but the term has morphed to other usages. I view slamming as the practise of bullying or cajoling users into a service they don't want or need.

Strictly speaking you're right, but this has little or no bearing on the core enquiry.

adam

OHP

Originally posted by dahamsta
Not everyone in Ireland may be as well informed as you or it. They need rules, in the same way handicapped people need carers. I suppose you don't care about them, eh?

adam [/B]

While I agree with what you posted initially. I feel I must caution you to beware. Your track record for dealing with Handicapped people on these boards is not great even if you don’t realise it. So please refrain from using handicapped people as a scape goat for your inability to answer a question / remark etc.


OHP

Raskolnikov

I got a call from an Eircon rep today.

She kept harping on about how competitive Eircon were for about 10 minutes, i wasn't paying any particular attention to what she was saying except for adding a yea or ok every minute or so. Then i blew her argument out of the water by asking if Eircon was so competitive why was i saving E100 a month with UTV?

Oh, at the end of the call she made a cryptic reference to a future flat rate product, i don't believe she had any authority to hint at such a product exists so maybe Eircon could be attacked for that.

dahamsta

Your track record for dealing with Handicapped people on these boards is not great even if you don’t realise it. So please refrain from using handicapped people as a scape goat for your inability to answer a question / remark etc.

The lengths people will go to to be offended surprises me day after day. Please turn down the sensitivity and refrain from staining my character with your imaginary "track record". The topic is Eircom and their tactics, please keep it that way.

adam

dahamsta

Ok, this is the ODTR's take on slamming, courtesy of Aileen Canning. You'll find details in Decision Notice D13/02 (Word Doc) and the industry code of practise.

Slamming is defined as a customer being moved operator without their knowledge: either by mistake, or by misrepresentation (obviously misrepresentation is what I and others have been alluding to.) A customer can move services by either signing an application form, providing their details over the Internet, or by using a voice system called third party verification.

The form goes to eircom wholesale, who: a) provision the CPS; and b) send a loss notification to the losing operator. The only thing that the losing operator is allowed do is send the customer an anti-slamming letter (to ensure that the customer has not be moved without their knowledge). The losing operator does not know who the customer has gone to, and is not allowed make any winback attempt.

Finally, Aileen tells me that the ODTR has performed a number of investigations into this and have found no evidence of inappropriate behaviour so far. I don't know when the investigations took place or what their scope was, but apparently a note will be published about it shortly.

In the meantime though, if any operator is making inappropriate winback attempts, they're breaking rules that have been defined quite clearly to stop anti-competitive behaviour, and this should not be accepted. So if you have evidence of this, you should send it to the ODTR asap. The operator affected may also be interested in the information.

adam

De Rebel

Adam

Please could you clarify something for me. In your original post you say

Originally posted by dahamsta
The rules are simple: Eircom is allowed try to win you back as a customer with one phone call and one letter, no more.

in your curent post you say

Originally posted by dahamsta
The losing operator does not know who the customer has gone to, and is not allowed make any winback attempt

I'm not trying to be smart or catch you out, I just want to be clear in my own mind about this. For the record my interest is more a detestation of "Junk-Phone Calls" and a big interest in the Data Protection perspective - It would appear that Eircom Retail are way out of line on this one and abusing the client data which they hold - I have previously written about this in another thread. I think there is a major issue here and I'm only waiting for the day Eircom calls me on something like this and I will be on to the Data Protection Commissioner soooo fast....

dahamsta

My first post was led by information provided to me by an operator, the second by information provided by the ODTR. I honestly don't know which is completely accurate - don't think I hadn't noticed - however the ODTR sets the rules, so I suppose they win?

adam

De Rebel

Originally posted by dahamsta
- however the ODTR sets the rules, so I suppose they win?

I just had a look at Decision Notice D13/02 and it looks like the ODTR isn't too sure either :rolleyes:

dahamsta

I just had a look at Decision Notice D13/02 and it looks like the ODTR isn't too sure either

Aileen has clarified that the way I described it first is how it used to work before July. The ODTR intervened at that stage to increase competition.

adam

Hannibal_12

I think Dahamsta has a very valid point and frankly am at a loss for the personal attacks against him. As with many people here I have a dislike of Eircom for several reasons that have been quoted on these boards many times previous and I think information relating to any possible coercion or bullying tactics is vital so people are informed. It's time now that Eircom realise they cannot continually bleed us dry for inferior products at exorbitant prices.