Budget 2002

Cork

I would point out, finally, that there is actually benefit in attracting massively successful artists to Ireland. They spend their masses of money here,

This is the oldest chesnut in the book - why should I pay tax - Don't I pay VAT on everything I buy.

THink about it...a U2 living in Ireland not paying tax generates as much direct tax-revenue for the government as a U2 not living in Ireland.

I think that If U2 leave Ireland - that is their choice. Some of us - don't have the choice of becoming tax exiles.

you have finally started admitting that artists should have a cap on their benefits (rather than no benefits) which is in effect what I've been saying since the start :

I think their should be a cap on both Grants to Mega Farms & Mega Artiests.

But - this tax exemption is not really a mechanisim for artiests with an income - not all artiests or farmers have this luxery.

This tax exemption has very little to do with funding the Arts in Ireland.

.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
This is the oldest chesnut in the book - why should I pay tax - Don't I pay VAT on everything I buy.

With all due respect, that can't be the oldest chestnut in the book. We've only had VAT in this country for less than 30 years. That makes it at most a 30 year old chestnut.

This tax exemption has very little to do with funding the Arts in Ireland.

It has everything to do with funding artists in Ireland. Last I heard, artists were making most of the art.

I see you've essentially conceded that at least some artists are entitled to some funding or exemptions.

Cork

Well - I have heard the I pay VAT on what I buy - Why do I have to pay tax arguement many times.

you've essentially conceded that at least some artists are entitled to some funding or exemptions

Well - I have mellowed a little. I think they needs to be limits. I know that CJH had the foresight to bring in the measure. It has helped many artiests.


If you spent 10 years working on a novel and earned nothing and then you had a book that sold 40000 - Why should you have a large tax bill in the year of publication.

But there needs to be limits on these exemptions - as they were intoduced when art was not really happeing in Ireland.

I think there needs the system needs to be changed to facilitate this.

bonkey

Despite you now more or less agreeing with the stance I was initially taking, I'm vaguely disturbed that you claim to do so because this was a measure brought in by Haughey, and he being the epitomy of FF means that it must have been a smart thing.

Incidentally - I was wondering how long it would take you to realise that you were vehemently arguing against a policy created and supported by your beloved party.....

jc

Cork

I know that CJH had the foresight to bring in the measure.

This policy has indeed served Ireland well. We don't have a big population & this relief has ecouraged our arts.

But - It is now over 30 years old & it must be reviewed.

I think - we need to exempt income under a perscribed limit. This would say well less than €1 million thus still encouraging arts while raising revenue for our exchequer.


CJH also brough in the House / stallion tax exemption - this too needs review. It has served Ireland well but we need to take stock and see if it can be changed in order to raise some tax monies for badly needed services.

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
I think - we need to exempt income under a perscribed limit. This would say well less than €1 million thus still encouraging arts while raising revenue for our exchequer.

I can understand such a system for the "struggling artist" and I would have the limit under €50,000.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Cork
- as they were intoduced when art was not really happeing in Ireland.
.

Good old CJ! He brought Art to Ireland!! THank God!

(yes quiet at the back there yeats, shaw, stoker, behan, friel, wilde, bourroghs, dunne, lynott, and all you other people...)

Cork

Originally posted by Dustaz
Good old CJ! He brought Art to Ireland!! THank God!

(yes quiet at the back there yeats, shaw, stoker, behan, friel, wilde, bourroghs, dunne, lynott, and all you other people...)

This exemption would have covered much of the work of Lynott & Friel?

I can understand such a system for the "struggling artist" and I would have the limit under €50,000

Well - I agree. Even a limit of 50k would encourage the arts.

Victor

So much for removing the tax on work, this is from today's SBP. I think it is outragious that someone on €30,000 pays about 30% tax, but someone (lots of people) on €300,000 pays none.

As one of the officials of the Bar Council of Ireland (in a discussion on Barrister's fees), put it recently he "had" to put €39,000 into his pension last year. Nice to have that €39,000 in the first place.

While i am glad a lot of the shelters are gone, "wheeler-dealer" types are still paying a maximum of 20% on their capital gains.

Quarter of highest earners paid no income tax in 2002 [note Newspaper edition says 2000]
By Ed Micheau

A quarter of the state's highest earners pay no tax at all, while most use schemes, exemptions and partnerships to reduce their contributions to under 10 per cent.

A study by the Revenue Commissioners of the 1999-2000 tax period shows 63 per cent of the Republic's top 117 earners had an effective tax rate of less than 10 per cent.

The main tax incentives were multi-storey car parks, hotels and other property-based capital allowances. Other tax reliefs, such as heritage homes, film relief and loan interest cost the exchequer a further €6 million.

The study also showed that none of the top 117 earners had an effective tax rate in excess of 30 per cent, indicating that the country's top tax advisers were doing a good job.

The tax yield of the average taxpayer has hovered just under 30 per cent in recent years.

However, top earners who did not avail of the property-based tax allowances fared comparatively badly -- 231 of the country's top 400 earners had an effective tax rate of between 30-44 per cent, while 52 top earners handed over 45 per cent of their earnings to the taxman.

"A repeat of this study in two or three years will give a better indication of what reliefs are being used to reduce the effective rate by the very wealthy," said the report.

In his recent budget, Minister for Finance Charlie McCreevy announced the end of nine capital allowance incentive schemes from December 31, 2004 including multi-storey car parks and other property reliefs.

My maths was never very good , but is that report not saying that roughly two thirds of the top 400 earners are paying more than the average taxpayer?
But that two thirds of the top 117 earners pay less than 10%...

Just goes to show you can argue anything with statistics, and still come out saying something unimportant.
Presumably if you expand the numbers surveyed and look at the top 1000 earners,the extra 600 or so are paying their fair share.

As one of the officials of the Bar Council of Ireland (in a discussion on Barrister's fees), put it recently he "had" to put €39,000 into his pension last year. Nice to have that €39,000 in the first place.

My only comment on that would be fair play to them, if they are able to do that, they studied damn hard to be in a position to earn such fees.
If I had the patience and the brains to be a barister, darn it I'd be up there staking a claim to that money as well.
When that person does, come to draw their private pension, on retirement, they will have to pay tax on it, so it's only delaying the inevitable.
mm

Victor

Sorry, my point is that money gets to grow until he retires and is only then taxed. This creates a vast cash-flow issue for government (albeit one that they approved).