Got any questions ? .. . Killing Stereotypes

Shinji

Actually I thought he was being massively defensive rather than light-hearted, but hey

Responding to the questions slightly differently...

Are gay men more promiscous than straight men?

No. Straight men are pretty damn promiscous when you think about it though - or would be given the chance!

Is it easier to score in a gay nightclub?

Compared to what? If you're a good looking guy it's as easy to score in a gay nightclub as it would be if you were a good looking bird. I have a (bi) friend who is very good looking in a boyish kind of way, and he basically gets this in gay clubs - blokes buying drinks for him and so on. On the other hand if you're Joe Average, you won't find it any easier to score a good looking bloke than you would find it to score a lovely lady.

Do gay men have more one night stands than straight men?

Some of them do. A lot of straight men would probably have more one night stands if the opportunity arose, and the opportunity certainly seems to be there more for gay men. However just as many straight men aren't up for that, so it is with a lot of gay men - it just isn't their scene and they're only interested in sex in the context of a loving relationship. This surprised me at first as well because the one stereotype I'd assumed WOULD be true is that gay guys are all at it like rabbits...

Does sex come into play earlier in a homosexual relationship than a heterosexual one?

I think so yes - although that's a pretty sweeping statement. I think sex is less of an issue in homosexual relationships, because men take it that bit less seriously than women do. I know a lot of people in homosexual realtionships which seem more like very strong, loving friendships with casual sex attached, if you see what I mean.

Are gay men generally better looking than straight men?

No, although I guess if you did a headcount and totted up the stats you'd find a higher percentage of gay guys spending lots of money on clothes and beauty stuff. Not always true though.

Are gay men generally more artistically talented (music, poetry etc) than straight men?

Actually, yeah. I don't know why but a lot of the gay people I know are excellent designers, creatives, writers, musicians etc. Perhaps it's because they, in general, had it quite rough growing up because of their sexuality, and a lot of them got involved in creative or intellectual pursuits to escape that; or maybe it's genetic. Who knows - either way, although it's not a hard and fast rule, it's certainly a stereotype that comes under the heading of "no smoke without fire".

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Talliesin

I'd say the gay == creative stereotype probably has origins in the attitudes to homosexuality within artistic and creative circles. It's easier to be out if you're a gay interior decorator than a gay special forces sniper.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

"but but... I can't shoot him.. he's beautiful!!"

p

Originally posted by Jak:
2 People I know very well are gay. 1 is camp as bejaysus, and it has gotten worse since he 'came out'. Not many of us really liked the guy that much beforehand, but now, we just keep hoping he might go 'back in'.


Hope this isn't too off topic, but that post just called for an onion article:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3837/newly_out_gay_man.html

- Kevin

Andor

Are gay men more promiscous than straight men?

Probably, since you'll sometimes find theres double the single-minded guys than in a straight relationship!

Is it easier to score in a gay nightclub?

I wouldn't know, amn't too keen on going to one of those places either.

Do gay men have more one night stands than straight men?

Like Shinji said, some do some dont

Does sex come into play earlier in a homosexual relationship than a heterosexual one?

Depends, though in general i would say yes, since most men treat sex in a lighter fashion to women

Are gay men generally better looking than straight men?

nahh, though some are far more obsessive of their looks than straight guys.

Are gay men generally more artistically talented (music, poetry etc) than straight men?

I think yes, in alot of cases.



oh, and

Do you folk not find the camp voices and behaviour insanely irritating?

I do, but i know 2 guys like that and one is straight. its not so much 'the camp voices and behaviour', as that would imply its only found in homosexuals.

azezil

spawned of the gene thread...

are gay people less open to matters of sexuality/ sexual expression?
i ask this because many of the replys from straight people were 'yes i'd give it a go' while gay people seemed unwilling to even try it straight for a while!?

Shinji

i ask this because many of the replys from straight people were 'yes i'd give it a go' while gay people seemed unwilling to even try it straight for a while!?

Mmm... I think that's mostly because the question was being interpreted differently. Straight people see it as "would you be prepared to experiment", gay people see it as "would you be prepared to change to being straight"... Different questions. I certainly don't think gay males are any less open to experimentation than straight males - less so if anything.

STaN

Originally posted by azezil
are gay people less open to matters of sexuality/ sexual expression?
i ask this because many of the replys from straight people were 'yes i'd give it a go' while gay people seemed unwilling to even try it straight for a while!?

I think the people that would "give it a go" are curious and are not 100% gay per say. Or maybe its because allot of straight ment fanatsize about other men?

If your totally gay, there is no way you would even consider "trying it straight", it would be the same for a totally straight man trying it on with a man, its just not done.

If you have a tendancy to even look at men, every so often, then your talking.

Xelsior

Shinji:

Understanding promotes tolerance in my experience.

Pity it doesnt promote Acceptance, homosexuals aren't something that should be merely tolerated, you'd swear we were some sort of other species the way some people go on.

Shinji

Stan - that raises a question in my mind; is anyone actually "totally" gay or "totally" straight?

I don't think there's really anyone out there who wouldn't cross over given the right set of circumstances and/or intoxicating substances....



Xelsior.... That's not strictly fair, a hell of a lot of straight people are perfectly accepting of homosexuals. I used the word "tolerance" because, well, that's the first step isn't it - and on the flipside, there are lots who haven't even taken that first step.

Yurmasyurda

Originally posted by Shinji
Stan - that raises a question in my mind; is anyone actually "totally" gay or "totally" straight?

I don't think there's really anyone out there who wouldn't cross over given the right set of circumstances and/or intoxicating substances....

Depends really, due to an acceptance issue when I was younger I tried a few things with some pretty nice girls but never liked it, I just had to come to realisation and I will never be with a girl again (sexually of course) no matter how intoxicated I am.

De Rebel

Originally posted by DapperGent

Originally posted by De Rebel
(b) F**k off and stop stereotyping gay men!


FFS I'm not stereotyping gay men. I'm just wondering what you think of said stereotypes.

ahm I was having a laugh. I apologise if you though I was being serious, but given that you only posted half of my comment I expect that you knew that anyway and that your just a Dub doing what Dub's do best and being indignant.

Prizes for reading my response in the way I intended it to be read:

• Shotamoose "I think De Rebel was being light-hearted there" Gets joint first prize
• BuffyBot"He was just having a laugh" Also gets to enjoy a joint
• Shinji "Actually I thought he was being massively defensive rather than light-hearted" gets a little prize for no reason other than the fact that he is a Mod and it pays to keep the Mods on side
• DapperGent"FFS I'm not stereotyping gay men. I'm just wondering what you think of said stereotypes" gets the aforementioned apology

I really was trying to be lighthearted. I think that this “Are gay men generally more artistically talented (music, poetry etc) than straight men?” is stereotyping. I’m not getting at DapperGent for asking the question, its valid given the way in which the media portray gays and the way in which many gay men portray themselves.

Some gay guys are massively artistically talented (!) and some are not. Some would be allowed to decorate my bedroom, and a hell of a lot would not. Who knows what the correct answer is, but looking back at the known gay composers, playwrights, poets, painters etc. and even doubling the number to allow for closet cases – I doubt that there is anything statistically significant.

Looking at this from a historical perspective it appears to me that one of the reasons that gays are associated with the arts is that it is not an area where heterosexuals have felt challenged. So a gay guy who wants to paint is allowed to get on with it, and to be himself. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many other vocations, professions and careers, where gays are not tolerated, and if they are allowed enter at all its only by repressing one of the most important aspects of their personality. Thankfully, much of this is changing.

Well thats a more verbose response than my original one. Sorry again if you took me up wrong. I really didn’t mean to be aggressive, was just having a laugh.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by De Rebel

BuffyBot"He was just having a laugh" Also gets to enjoy a joint

*koff* I would never..

But anyway - back to the point. I have no artistic talents at all. I know many similar gay people...so I think it's definitely one stereotype which is not true!

DapperGent

Originally posted by De Rebel
ahm I was having a laugh. I apologise if you though I was being serious, but given that you only posted half of my comment I expect that you knew that anyway and that your just a Dub doing what Dub's do best and being indignant.

Sorry just saw this. I couldn't be sure if you were offended or not and I wanted to be clear that these weren't my opinions just common stereotypes. Erring on the side of caution if you will.
By the way I'm from Meath.

Originally posted by De Rebel
I think that this “Are gay men generally more artistically talented (music, poetry etc) than straight men?” is stereotyping.

I don't understand how a question can be stereotyping. If I'd left out the Are and the question mark it would have been.

Originally posted by De Rebel
Sorry again if you took me up wrong. I really didn’t mean to be aggressive, was just having a laugh.

Dats alright.

Clintons Cat

isnt the stereotypical campness something to do with self promotion?

Or is it more to do with creating a sense of identity,where the conventional signposts through life that markout a persons development (marraige/mortgage/kids) have been eroded,hence the importance of the "pink pound" to marketing men.

it hasnt always been the case that people have been comfortable expressing their sexuality openly. In adopting a set of mannerisms wasnt/isnt it a way of "letting people know"?
by adopting such tribal totems doesnt one not only make a statement about ones sexuality but also on ones outlook on life and the type of people one wants to associate with what anthropologists call mirroring.

i remember having a conversation with a gay friend who was quite vociferous about the more effete members of the gay community,it was his veiw that they reinforced "straight societys" predjudices against gay people.
I also seem to recall reading someplace that some self styled "Screaming queens" tended to veiw the more conservativly mannered gay people as having one foot firmly in the closet,ready to retreat back into straight society if the going got tough.

veiwed from either extreme both points of veiw could be seen as either entirely justified or entirely unreasonable depending on one persons outlook on life,experiences and political or sociological outlook on pink issues.Both veiws could be seen as being a form of reverse descrimination,that could only be adressed when the underlying causes of social exclusion (unequal status on marraige,mortgage,pensions,adoption,age of consent,) are eradicated.

hope that makes sense.

De Rebel

DapperGent

Thanks for your reply.

Stereotyping can take many forms. And stereotyping is not always offensive. Your question is not offensive, in some ways it could be considered flattering. However that is not the point. I would contend that even asking that question in some ways reinforces the stereotype and thus is a subtle form of stereotyping.

Many gays are sensitive to the whole “artistic” tag because of its effeminate connotations. Its particularly the case in this country where coming out was made all the more difficult for people because immediately you uttered the words “I’m gay” the listener immediately associated you with Oscar Wilde, Micheal McLiamore, Kenneth Williams and Rock Hudson. Not to mention the more extreme aspects of David Norris.(Note 1) Great people but not exactly what an insecure 17 year old wants envisaged as his future. Positive role models were few and far between, and in many ways this is still the case.

Like I said before, I’m not getting at you for asking the question, its valid given the way in which the media portray gays and the way in which many gay men portray themselves. And i'm certainly happy that you took the time and trouble to ask it and have taken the time to follow up rather than just walking away annoyed by my seemingly smart assed response. Fair dues to you.


/afterthought

Mods, how about a thread listing positive gay role models – in the last few years I have had the opportunity to speak to the parents of a number of young gay guys, and one of the challenges is convincing them that life for their offspring is not necessarily destined to be a sad dreary drudge of handbag waving gyrations and slow angst ridden descent into a miserable AIDS related death. People have the strangest ideas and seem to assume the worst. One point I find difficulty with in these situations is listing even three or four content, fulfilled gay men who could be held up as positive role models. I am fortunate enough to know many guys who fit the bill, but they are not household names.


(Note 1) I have great personal respect for David, his courageous campaign has greatly improved the quality of life for every gay man in this country. In mentioning him here I am simply alluding to his more extreme and somewhat arcane mannerisms and how they are generally perceived.

Shinji

If you think a thread like that would be interesting, go ahead and start one!

That's what the New Thread button is for.... Actually I reckon that could be an interesting one, although I can't think of any particularly famous gay role models offhand. I know some gay people in real life who I think would fill the role - very successful, happy people who are comfortable with their sexuality, basically - but famous ones are few and far between. Let's see what you can come up with!

azezil

In ghey sexual relations is one partner always the 'receiver' (bitch) or do ye take it in turns?

what happens if two, dominant types get together? due ye duel it out to see who's gonna be the bitch?

HerrLipp

In gay sexual relations is one partner always the 'receiver' (bitch) or do ye take it in turns?

Think this is a question best answered by yellum

Sangre

Do gay men frequent locker/changing room more then necessary??


Because If it was a unisex changing room I sure as hell would be more interested in that gym for example


Oh is there such thing as 'gaydar'? and how does it work?

Gordon

Oh and another one...
Is it not a bit messy?

STaN

Oh is there such thing as 'gaydar'? and how does it work?

Yes there is... and its a sence. Totaly subconscious. I was meeting some people from the internet and i knew one of them was gay, i found out later that he was

Is it not a bit messy?

Hahah, depends what your doing ... and how often

isnt the stereotypical campness something to do with self promotion?

Never thought of it like that, i suppose that would be an eliment of it. Some people who arent camp at all, are harder to figure out or maybe dont want every1 to know but might expose some tendencies under the influence of alcohol or in a gay presence

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Sangre
Do gay men frequent locker/changing room more then necessary??

Yes, because we all want to seduce the heterosexual hunks-o-love

Can't speak for other people but no. I remember once at a inter-company football match, I once was asked by one of the players girlfriends to drop his mobile into the lads dressing room because he was wanted urgently. The minute I entered everything stopped, except for the slow moment of towels to cover the knobs and arses of my workmates.

God, did they love themselves or what? I wouldn't have touched any of them with barge poles - minging ugly f*ckers.

Yavvy

I have a Gay question. and you will have to excuse the obvious lack of knowledge as I don’t have any gay friends and I don’t think I know anyone gay.

I rent DVD's from lazer on Georges street and I often see people coming in and out of the gay bar across the road. My point is no one ever holds hands...I have never seen two men hold hands walking down any street in Dublin. I have seen a few women but I have never seen them show any affection.

Getting swiftly on to my question, are gay people afraid of public reaction or god forbid some closed minded fool might attack them ? Or..............

Are Gay people just less affectionate than straight?



One last silly question

Why is there a pink tea cup sign on the pub ?

Talliesin

Originally posted by Alany
I rent DVD's from lazer on Georges street and I often see people coming in and out of the gay bar across the road. My point is no one ever holds hands...I have never seen two men hold hands walking down any street in Dublin.

I have seen men holding hands on Georges Street, but it is rare.

I've seen people's faces after they've had their heads kicked in on Georges Street as well, which might go some way to explain this.

The interesting thing is that Georges Street usually has a few undercover Gardai hanging about (or did when I was more scene) who wouldn't intervene because they are only interested in the pot and E dealers.

STaN

cup of tea? i think theres a cocktail (no pun inteneded) one aswell.... because they serve coffee & cocktails during the day? *shrug*

yellum

Originally posted by Alany
My point is no one ever holds hands...I have never seen two men hold hands walking down any street in Dublin. I have seen a few women but I have never seen them show any affection.

Getting swiftly on to my question, are gay people afraid of public reaction or god forbid some closed minded fool might attack them ?
Are Gay people just less affectionate than straight?

The world especially in Ireland is still not very accepting of many things including homosexuality. There is definetly a fear that you will get the **** kicked out of you if you show affection to a same sex partner in public. Its not like it doesn't happen. There are plenty of people especially with a lot of alcohol in them that are only happy to kick the crap out of "dem queers"

I've held hands with someone in public for short periods and even kissed someone outside the central bank cos I was a bit brave and with a group of people. It still kinda dodgy and unfortunately you might have to watch your back. I think theres been progress though.

Think about that .... Its a great world I live in where I have to watch my behaviour to such a degree. I bet straight people don't even think twice about showing affection in public or if they do its just the embrassment factor and not "God I hope someone doesn't attack me for kissing my girlfriend"

As for being less affectionate, no, why not call into that bar you mentioned and see are gay people less affectionate.

Yavvy

Yeah I often considered going to a gay bar. But I figured that I wouldn’t be welcome. Stupid im sure, I just think Gay bars are like a sanctuary where they can finally be themselves in a public environment and the last thing they need is some fool (me) staring at people like I never saw a gay man before (which im sure I would).

But the not holding hands thing...I was afraid it was cause of "Gay beatings”. It’s a sad reflection on Ireland and Dublin if that is the state of affairs. I would imagine cities like New York, Sydney, London and Paris are a lot more open minded and accepting

Yavvy

I have a question that Im sure has an obvious answer.

Im straight and I cant really understand how a man can be sexually attaracted to another. Do gay men feel the same way about straight men being attracted women ? I would think yes, but then I think maybe Gay men have a better understanding of the situaition

Is this a stupid question ?