Post-Budget Hikes - Car Tax [Merged]

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork

have not and are not being reformed by FF[/QUOTE

they have not been reformed either by FG or Labour.

Reform of public services is not a topic that really has been achieved by any political party.

Not the issue.

You are a FF supporter. ASsuming you are old enough to have the vote (and use it) you are one of the people responsible for voting them into power.

So, what you are in effect saying is that you have given you r support for a party who refuse to solve the problems of inefficiency that you want solved, and who are doing things that you feel are unconscionable - like raising raxes by more than the rate of inflation.

I dont care about your argument that "the other parties are no better". I agree - they arent. Thats why I refuse to vote for maintaining the status quo - for any major party to retain their seats.

You openly support this wastefulness on the grounds that no-one else is any better. Fine - then you accept that such wastefulness is a normal part of political Ireland.

Cope. Quit moaning. You have no position to moan from while you lend your support to these people.

jc

Cork

I dont care about your argument that "the other parties are no better". I agree - they arent. Thats why I refuse to vote for maintaining the status quo - for any major party to retain their seats.

I think that Michael Martin is a pretty good minister.

I think that he is a decent and capable Minister.

Even when you look at the minor partys such as Sinn Fein.

Where is the Health policy?

Was it right that Martin Ferris TD was using his medical card?

It is no wonder that the system needs change.

I feel - Michael Martin is the best Minister for Health in years.

He has massively increased the health budget - massive amounts of monies is being spent.

What we need is health management.

Tell me Cork how you figure Micheál Martin is a good minister, when after all the extra billions pumped into the health service over the last five years, it's still in a sorry mess??

In such a mess that it pays to send patients abroad for treatment:rolleyes:
He is the minister overseeing the *cough* health management you are talking about.

Whats Martin Ferris having a medical card to do with this??
Thats just fraud, nothing to do with the lack of Michae Martins capabilities.
mm

Cork

Most of the additional money went on staff. Then you had medical inflation.

If you could solve the health problem with money - it would be solved years ago.

It will take serious reform where the health service has got to become more efficent & effective.

Hard Decisions need to be taken. Michael Martin is a very capable & honest man. I really do not know much about the health stratergy - but I hope it works.

Our medical system needs big improvement but I don't think that it is in a " sorry mess".

Originally posted by Cork
Most of the additional money went on staff. Then you had medical inflation.

If you could solve the health problem with money - it would be solved years ago.

It will take serious reform where the health service has got to become more efficent & effective.

Hard Decisions need to be taken. Michael Martin is a very capable & honest man. I really do not know much about the health stratergy - but I hope it works.

Our medical system needs big improvement but I don't think that it is in a " sorry mess".

I'm sorry Cork but it is in a sorry mess,the following is a rather personal example, and you can contact me to verify the story if you wish.
My Father was extremely ill in St Vincents Hospital in Dublin.
His first night after being brought in through casualty, was spent on a trolly.
During his second night there, he fell off his bed, breaking his nose and cutting his eye, his face was covered in blood.
I went up to see him that morning(I hadn't been told) and his wounds hadn't even been dressed by 11 am.
Of course I called the registrar, and declared war.
He was more worried that I would sue, than in my fathers condition.
There was a patient in the same ward drinking vodka from a 7up bottle, who was being abusive.
There are thousands of stories across the country as bad as that...It is disgracefull, and to be quite frank,your statement about the minister being capable is utter nonsense.

I would respectively suggest that you address the facts before you make sweeping unsupported one line statements.
mm
p.s I realise that this has gone way off topic, but, the above was a necessary reply imho.

Cork

I too have personal experience of the health system. People on trollys, people waiting to be seen, Filthy ICU Units etc.

I too had a bad experience with the health system. I can't go into it in any more detail.

There should be Centres of Excellence in this Country. Public Health nurses need to be efficent and trained up well. Nurses need to keep up to date with medical developments.

I think that however bad the servise is: I would not describe it as a mess. Although, Some ascepts of the service are a shambles.

I think that trolly should never be used for more than 25 or 30 minutes. I think that the weekend service should be the same as the week day service. I think that the current feud bewteen the Minister for Health & Finance should be done through the airwaves so they people know what is happening.

Cork

I know that I too have gone away from the topic. But I think that in the light of more Health Cutbacks it is relevant to post Budget issues.


I think than Man - you are right. But, the health system is so vital - I just did not want to refer to it as a "mess". I wasn't playing politics. When you suffer a loss - you try and convince yourself that everything possible was done 4 the person.

hallelujajordan

Originally posted by Cork
I think that the current feud bewteen the Minister for Health & Finance should be done through the airwaves so they people know what is happening.

You must be MAD . . . to consider it useful in any way to conduct government business over the airwaves is completely bonkers! But if you think FF are going to do anything other than just sweep this sorry mess under their already bulging carpet then you're completely crazy . . .

Originally posted by Cork

There should be Centres of Excellence in this Country. Public Health nurses need to be efficent and trained up well. Nurses need to keep up to date with medical developments.

I think that however bad the servise is: I would not describe it as a mess. Although, Some ascepts of the service are a shambles.

I think that trolly should never be used for more than 25 or 30 minutes. I think that the weekend service should be the same as the week day service. I think that the current feud bewteen the Minister for Health & Finance should be done through the airwaves so they people know what is happening.

You can think, all you want, but the facts of the matter are that the minister you think is so capable, is totally responsible for the mess, through his obvious dis regard for patients of the public health service.
Charlie McCreevy is quite right imo, to be scolding his colleague, for the way he is running things.
and I don't want to hear the usual line from you, like " what would FG do, etc, etc,"...! It's what the current government are not doing that is pertinent.
mm

DiscoStu

Public Health nurses need to be efficent and trained up well. Nurses need to keep up to date with medical developments.

say that to a nurse and you would have your head ripped clean off.

After the nurses strike they were promised more pay, better training etc. courses were set up in the uni and colleges in ireland to train nurses to a degree level. however in that time what did the government do? they hired masses of foreign nurses on the cheap so this year the first batch of graduates are about to enter the workforce and they are told that there are no places for them due to the cheap labour that was fired from abroad.

What you must understand is that there is no, repeat no financial benifit for a nurse to go and get further training. my mother a staff nurse with over 20 years experience has done two degrees in oncology and managment, yet has not received a single penny in extra pay beside the annual increase due to inflation. in any other field of employment she would be considered a valuable asset yet is still looked upon with contempt by the government.

over the years nurses allowed themselves to be walked on due to the doctor(master, male) nurse(servent, female) mentality that was the norm. yet over the years as the nursing profession modernised they were not givien what quite frankly owed to them. so saying nursing needs to be modernised is quite an ill-informed and quite frankly ignorant thing to say.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
But, the health system is so vital - I just did not want to refer to it as a "mess". I wasn't playing politics.

The cynic in me says that had this been a FG minister you'd be beside yourself telling us how much better a track record FF had, and that not just the minister but the entire government should be thrown out for such a disgrace.

Then again, how you can claim to not be playing politics when you posted the following is beyond me.

I think that Michael Martin is a pretty good minister.
I think that he is a decent and capable Minister.
Even when you look at the minor partys such as Sinn Fein.
Where is the Health policy?
Was it right that Martin Ferris TD was using his medical card?
It is no wonder that the system needs change.
I feel - Michael Martin is the best Minister for Health in years.

Yeah - very unpolitical Cork. Talk up your own party, and cast aspersions at the others. Amazingly unpolitical and honest. Truly.

You might at least have the honesty to admit what you're doing, rather than making one-party-sided comments and then trying to defend them by claiming that you didnt want the topic to be a political football (on a poltics forum no less).

If you're not willing to discuss these points honestly, I'd rather you didnt discuss them at all. This is not a soap-box for you to promote your beloved party, and to be quite frank, I'm getting increasingly fed up of you treating it as one.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
I feel - Michael Martin is the best Minister for Health in years.

He has massively increased the health budget - massive amounts of monies is being spent.

Wrong again.

The budget comes from the minister of Finance, as you well know.
So, the massive amounts of extra monies have come from a minister who is currently getting a lot of flak because of his massive overspending.

Secondly, the amount of money doesnt matter a toss - it is how the money is used. How much significant reform has your precious minister introduced if he is so good, or is he just throwing the extra cash McGreedy gave him at the same old problems and inefficiencies in the same tired old way, and is great because, well, hes FF?

hc

Cork

I have seen at first hand the defiencincies in our health system. I have seen people of n trollys. I have seen grotty ICU units. I have met public health nurses that were away with the fairys. I met one pretty good one.

Overall - I am not defending or attacking any Minister for Health.

I think the system needs reform big time.

It is pretty crucial. It is urgent & of utmost importance.

gandalf

Cork I really think you should step back and think a while before you post on this again. I mean you say the health service is a disgrace no arguement from me on that, and then in the same breath you say things like you think that the government are doing a good job. THEY HAD 5 YEARS OF PLENTY where if they actually gave a damn about the country and were forward thinking they could have reformed the health service and made sure that money was not wasted. They didn't.

Getting back on topic, they could have also sorted out the infrastructure properly instead of the mess we are in now. Remember if it wasn't for a FF minister in the 50's Dublin would still have a tram line, now we're wasting money on building one again that alot of experts think is too small for the population belt it has to cover, they are building a port tunnel that is too small for a significant percentage of the trucks it is suppost to be servicing. But everythings behind schedule and costing more (6.7 Billion more!!! Nice management Bertie, looks like you are using that qualification you "got" from UCD!).

This is the same government that introduced the NCT where tax paying drivers (more tax now!) fail tests because their cars are worn out by sub standard roads that they are paying hefty taxes (VRT & Motor Tax) to actually use. THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED ON YOUR FAVOURITE PARTIES TERM IN OFFICE.

Please think before you reply to this Cork because I like bonkey believe your faith in FF is bordering on the hypocritical.

Gandalf.

Cork

FF have massively increased the health budget. Still we are getting a pretty shoddy service. The service in parts is a disgrace.

The problem is not one of money. It is one of inefficency. The Irish health service needs to become a modern & efficent one.

If that takes - closure of the smaller hospitals - close them.
If it takes - laying off certain staff - lay them off.
If it takes - scraping health boards - scrap them.

No political party in Ireland has a magic wound. It think all political partys are responsible for our health system.

if it wasn't for a FF minister in the 50's Dublin would still have a tram line,

Oh - A Tram would solve the transport problems of Dublin. Trams went out with the ark.

This is the same government that introduced the NCT

The NCT was an EU thing. We were one of the last countries in the EU to introduce it.

ALL HAPPENED ON YOUR FAVOURITE PARTIES TERM IN OFFICE.

Everything was smelling of roses before - It was not.

Yes we need a far improved health system.
Yes we need an intergrated transport system.

The Irish people are paying less tax now than in the previous FG/Labour government.

Charlie McCreevy has brought reform of our tax, pensions and savings area. Unemployment is low by EU standards. Bertie was influential in the Good friday agreement.

It is so easy to moan & groan and to look back with 20/20 vision. This state has achieved alot. Things are not perfect and things need big improvement.

This country still has problems - but what are the solutions?
Not all the problems we have can be laid at government & I thinkit is about time we asked ourselves what we as a people can do for our country.

I hope we do more than moan and groan.

It is so easy to moan & groan and to look back with 20/20 vision.

*cough* we are not looking back too far , in fact we are talking about the here and now.

Oh - A Tram would solve the transport problems of Dublin. Trams went out with the ark.

you are very fond of these types of sweeping unsupported statements-where is your evidence for this?

The problem is not one of money. It is one of inefficency. The Irish health service needs to become a modern & efficent one.

Is this finally an admission by you cork, that the party responsible for 80% of our governance over the years has built an ineffecient wastefull health service, indeed one that is a shambles, propped up with incredible strain by hard working, caring nurses and junior doctors??

Or are you saying that the responsibility for this lies with the parties who have been responsible for about 20% of our governance?? (Which doesn't wash by the way) Or are you just trolling with more meaningless one line party political, blah, blah blah...??

If as I suspect, the latter is the case I suggest you take your blinkers off and get real.

mm

Cork

Originally posted by Man
*cough* we are not looking back too far , in fact we are talking about the here and now.


Or are you saying that the responsibility for this lies with the parties who have been responsible for about 20% of our governance?? (Which doesn't wash by the way) Or are you just trolling with more meaningless one line party political, blah, blah blah...??

mm

The health systems has problems. Yet the blame game achieves nothing.

I could analyse the make up of the health boards over 30 years - But blaming is futile. I think that the health system needs organisation and efficency needs to be paramount.

We need Centres of Excellence. Their is no over night solution - that is why Minister Martin has brought in a stratergy.

I really don;t know too much about this stratergy - so If people do - let us know.

gandalf

Cork if you want to talk about the Health Service start up a new thread. Get back onto topic here. To be honest you are spouting the same crap here without offering anything new.

Gandalf.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
It think all political partys are responsible for our health system.

By that logic, no political party in Ireland is responsible for anything. This, however, does not stop you constantly telling us how bad it would be to have other parties in charge and how good a job FF are doing.

Of course, when faced with an issue like this where you cannot defend the current (and historically most common) government. it suddenly becomes "everyone's problem". Classic.

Explain to me, so, if such key problems are the responsibility of everyone, and not just of the parties government, why you feel that it is in any way important that FF stay in power as a "better" choice? Surely if they arent actually responsible for anything important, so their being in power is completely irrelevant.

Oh - no - wait. I'm falling for it again...applying the same logic to two seperate posts of yours. How foolish of me, I should know that cross-post consistency is a bit much to be asking.

Oh - A Tram would solve the transport problems of Dublin. Trams went out with the ark.

Dublin had one of the most extensive tram systems in Europe until it was shut down, due to a mistaken belief that public-owned transport (i.e. cars) would be a far cheaper, flexible, and therefore more preferable option. It was not "A tram", no more than Dublin Bus is "A bus" or Iarnrod Eireann is "A train". Then again, such honesty (or knowledge) might remove any semblance of credibility your argument presented.

Secondly, if trams went out with the Ark, why are they still central to transport in almost every major mainland European city? Are you trying to suggest that Dublin, with its massive traffic problems, is somehow more progressive then all these other cities where trams have become a backbone of mass-transit transport, and where traffic isnt a fraction of the problem faced in our capital?

Charlie McCreevy has brought reform of our tax, pensions and savings area.

And he's done such a good job of managing his finances that he has more or less bankrupted the country, which will have serious knock-on implications in future years - most typically in increased taxes and decreased investment in necessities like health and transport.

However, I'm sure that you'll manage to blame them on someone else, or make them "everyone's responsibility" if and when these knock-on implications of Charlie's "great job" come to pass.

Also - wasnt it you who was only a few days ago complaining that no minister should ever be allowed bring in increases above the rate of inflation. I thought McGreedy was doing a good job? What for the complaints then?

It is so easy to moan & groan and to look back with 20/20 vision. This state has achieved alot. Things are not perfect and things need big improvement.

No-one is doubting that the state has done well. What people have a problem with is the alacrity with which you are willing to talk up the successes of the state as successes of FF, but to write off failures of the state as "everyone's failure", or just avoid the issue entirely by re-telling us about the great things people did.

I mean - the minister of our failing health service is doing a good job according to you. Why? Cause he's increased funding...despite the fact that he hasnt increased funding (he was given more, which is different), and the fact that even you are openly admitting that money wont solve our problems. So exactly what has he done a good job at? Remind me again? Oh - yeah - I forgot - hes in the right party....that must be it.

Then there's McGreedy, who, despite your own complaints about his budget and his practical bankrupting of the country, youre now holding up as having done a good job. Yeah - so good that the public is baying for his blood based on the fact that he has managed to overspend, despite the signs being present that the economy was overheating and that the market was heading towards recession. In short, he's done a pathetic job, but despite even your own complaints elsewhere, youd have us believe hes done a good job.

As has Bertie, cause, you know, he had a hand in the Good Friday Agreement a whole 4 years ago, which is obviously more important than anything he may have done, or been involved with in the interim. Despite having to face wave after wave of scandals, he can stand up and ignore public opinion and keep his corrupt appointees around, offering nice little platitudes to the press and the hoi polloi, but he's done a good job cause, you know, he had a hand in that Agreement.


Damn - there I go again - looking for consistency between your posts. I'm sorry - Ill try and stop. Its hard though - I keep expecting you to use the same logic as the rest of the world - you're using FF-logic.

Not all the problems we have can be laid at government

Explain to me how the management of the health service and our transport industry can be laid at someone else's feet? Whos to blame? Stop offering bland contentless platitudes and distractions and deal with the issue at hand. If you want to blame someone other than those in charge, then blame someone.

I thinkit is about time we asked ourselves what we as a people can do for our country.

I hope we do more than moan and groan.

Well, most people here seem to be in agreement that one thing we can and should do is to stop offering blind support to a government that has singularly failed to tackle key issues over the course of its many stints in government.

You, however, seem to think that such blind adulation is somehow in the best interests of the country, despite your utter failure to offer a convincing reason as to why. Even your "best of a bad lot" comments are contentless - you have not pointed out a single actual reason as to why FF offer a better deal - you have merely offered contentless disparaging remarks and rhetoric.

I have to laugh a little at the irony (and hyprocracy) of someone blindly following FF party rhetoric telling us to ask ourselves what we can do for our country.

Ha ha. (that was me laughing)

If we all did what you did Cork, would we be any better off? Would FF have made a better job of our health and transport issues if they only had more votes? If so, then please explain how. If not, then I would suggest that you admit that the first thing we should be doing is not voting for a party who is clearly perpetuating the problems and has no real interest in tackling thorny issues because they know that the solutions will (in the short term) be less popular than the problems.

jc

Cork

And he's done such a good job of managing his finances that he has more or less bankrupted the country

This country is not bankrupt & McCreevy is doing a competant job despite the WORLD economic slowdown.

Services in this country have to be financed. Yet people bemoan having to pay more motor tax.

Where do people expect the money to come from?

Taxation - The FF/PD government have reduced both personal & coperate taxation.

Borrowing - Done that road before.

Where would FG or Labour have financed their manifesto plans? What Big solutions have FG, Labour, SF or the Greens?

People moan about paying a little more motor tax - yet the continue to enjoy low personal tax rates?

FF/PDs have improved both Childrens Allowance and the OAP Pension - & I say "Well done".

They have brought in the mimimum wage - where subsequently people were working for £40 per week.

But getting back to motor tax - What appropriate level of motor tax would ye suggest.

A rise of 10% is not bad when inflation is bewteen 5-6%.

But moaners will still moan.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
A rise of 10% is not bad when inflation is bewteen 5-6%.
But moaners will still moan.

Originally posted by Cork
There is NO excuse for a government to saction increases above the rate of inflation.

Two posts, from Cork. in the same thread, about the same increase. In one, there is NO EXCUSE for something which is "not bad" in the other.

Cork - you are either a troll or you genuinely havent got a clue. I've run out of other options.

jc

gandalf

People bemoan paying motor tax because the Government and Local Government are doing a piss poor job of actually delivering a adequate infrastructure.

A rise of 10% is pathetic given the actually state of Irish roads. All the current infrastructure projects are doing is addressing (in a very inadequate manner) our current problems they are not as in most other European planning 10-20-30 years down the line. They are not looking into why they cannot deliver a project on time or on budget but people like you Cork turn around and say "they are doing a good job".

You honestly think we are paying low personal taxes, that is a joke Cork, indirectly we are being taxed left right and centre, thanks to the increase in the lower level of VAT peoples Telephone, Gas & Electricity Bills will increase further (along with all other services). VRT theres one for the motorists we have the worst prices for cars in Europe (bar one country). That wouldn't be a problem if we had a proper public transportation system, whats that whoops looks like the visionaries in FF haven't sorted that either.

Cork I'm asking you this out straight, what age are you ? As long as sheep like you vote for inept politicians like those in FF we will still be in this mess. Thank you Cork and the rest of your flock!

Gandalf.

Cork

As long as sheep like you vote for inept politicians like those in FF we will still be in this mess

I think that this comment is unfair. Bertie Ahern is decent & honourable man. Mary Harney and the rest of the cabinet share the same qualities.

Did you look at either the FG (compo to taximen + Eircom Shareholders) or Labour (tax + spend).

the Government and Local Government are doing a piss poor job

You should really stand for election yourself.

we have the worst prices for cars in Europe (bar one country). That wouldn't be a problem if we had a proper public transportation system

How is this transportation system to be funded? Pebbles?

Look at the National Development Plan. Look at the new roads and bypasses. Yes our infrastructure has a lot of actching up to do.

It also needs to be funded. Fair play to Charlie McCreevy for not borrowing for infractrutural projects.

With public private partnership - things will start moving. Public private partnership is the way to go. The new national stadium will be built because of public private partnership. We will have decent roads due to public private partnership.

In the future - If you want to use a road you will have to pay for it. I think water charges are on the way. Yet people will oppose this as well. Services will have to be paid for.

Roads will have to be paid for. I think - that Telephone, Gas & Electricity Bills services have to be paid for as well.

So, whats the arguement - People objecting to pasying for services?
Who do you expect to carry the can?

gandalf

Originally posted by Cork
I think that this comment is unfair. Bertie Ahern is decent & honourable man. Mary Harney and the rest of the cabinet share the same qualities.

Bertie Ahern is far from a honourable and decent man. As for Harney wasn't that the person who used a EU Funded Plane to open a Off License!

Did you look at either the FG (compo to taximen + Eircom Shareholders) or Labour (tax + spend).

LOL this from someone telling people to hold judgement until the Tribunials report back, showing yourself up as a hypocrite again Cork!

You should really stand for election yourself.

Under Serious consideration actually

How is this transportation system to be funded? Pebbles?

We already are, VRT, Motor Tax, Duty on Petrol, Toll on certain roads what else do you suggest ??

Look at the National Development Plan. Look at the new roads and bypasses. Yes our infrastructure has a lot of actching up to do.

It also needs to be funded. Fair play to Charlie McCreevy for not borrowing for infractrutural projects.

YOu mean these projects whose planning was started in the 1970's and are only implimented now, and who was in power for most of that time.

With public private partnership - things will start moving. Public private partnership is the way to go. The new national stadium will be built because of public private partnership. We will have decent roads due to public private partnership.

Do you actually have a clue what your talking about. Nice soundbite road that "Public Private Partnerships" obviously designed to make the FF flossy brigade to feel all warm and fuzzy inside :rolleyes:

In the future - If you want to use a road you will have to pay for it. I think water charges are on the way. Yet people will oppose this as well. Services will have to be paid for.

We already are and for waht we are receiving return we are not getting value for money. Services are already been paid for thru the taxation system.

Roads will have to be paid for. I think - that Telephone, Gas & Electricity Bills services have to be paid for as well.

Read above !

So, whats the arguement - People objecting to pasying for services?
Who do you expect to carry the can? [/B]

No-one objects to paying for anything if they are getting value for money but we are not and the current pack of cronies in power are not ensuring and imho will not ensure that we do get value for money. This is something that I feel you have not got the capacity to grasp.

Gandalf.

bonkey

Originally posted by gandalf
No-one objects to paying for anything if they are getting value for money but we are not and the current pack of cronies in power are not ensuring and imho will not ensure that we do get value for money.

Not only that, but if we are to believe Cork's PPP road-building propaganda, then it is a good thing that we are being asked to pay more now (through increased taxes) to pay for roads which we will have to pay to use once we've finished paying to have them built.

Yeah - that makes a hell of a lot of sense. Its no wonder our infrastrcuture is so piss poor when logic like this marks a good government.

jc

Cork

No-one objects to paying for anything if they are getting value for money but we are not and the current pack of cronies in power are not ensuring and imho will not ensure that we do get value for money.

It is the job of the Controller & Auditor General to determine this/

The General Public are spending mega money on tiny dwellings - do you think they kniow anything about value for money?

Not only that, but if we are to believe Cork's PPP road-building propaganda, then it is a good thing that we are being asked to pay more now (through increased taxes) to pay for roads which we will have to pay to use once we've finished paying to have them built.

I hope - we will not be asked to pay for roads twice.

Bertie Ahern is far from a honourable and decent man. As for Harney wasn't that the person who used a EU Funded Plane to open a Off License!

Both Bertie and Mary are decent people.

wasn't that the person who used a EU Funded Plane to open a Off License!

If this was the case why did She increase the PDs seats during the last election?

Oh The people were fooled.

They did not read journalists like David Mcilliams, Shane Ross & Matt Cooper.

FF/PD got re-elected. They must be doing something right.


This debate can be summerised as follows:

We already are, VRT, Motor Tax, Duty on Petrol, Toll on certain roads what else do you suggest ??

Roads are expensive & they need funding.

Increasing Road tax is not a bad way to achieve this.

gandalf

Cork what age are you ?

Gandalf.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
I hope - we will not be asked to pay for roads twice.

Cork - you've just defended road-tax increases because they will help fund the building of new roads in PPP which we will be tolled to use.

You billed this as a good thing.

Now you're saying you hope it doesnt happen?


FF/PD got re-elected. They must be doing something right.

This debate can be summerised as follows:
Roads are expensive & they need funding.
Increasing Road tax is not a bad way to achieve this.

No, this debate can be summarised as follows :

No government should raise taxes by more than the rate of inflation byt the current government are doing a good job bvy raising taxes by more than the rate of inflation.

People should not be asked to pay for things twice, but the government is doing a good job by raising taxes to pay for roads we will be tolled to use.

The minister for Health is doing a good job because the Minister for Finance gave him more money, but more money is not what is needed in the health sector.

The government is not responsible for critical areas - that is the remit of all parties - but they are responsible for any successes in these areas.

Every single one of these comes directly from taking multiple posts of Corks on this topic and combining his arguments across them. Every single one of them is nonsensical.

This thread is a farce.
This thread is closed.

jc