Would There be a "Gay Community" in an Ideal World

Talliesin

This question is related to fisty's thread about whether there is a need for this board.
Say we lived in a completely egalitarian society, where nobody was bigotted against homosexuality, and there were no political concerns associated with being gay.
In such a case would there be a gay community? Is the gay community an artefact of homophobia, or is there something to it that would still be desirable if there were no homophobia?

swiss

As someone stated in that thread, these are discussion boards for various communities. There are seperate boards for Quake and Counter Strike players, but all are games players. By that rationale, we should lump together all of these boards into the 'games' board.

People of similar interests seek each other out, and form societies based on their mutual interests. This can be said about almost any facet of our lives, our hobbies, our work etc. The reason why communities are formed is because of social reasons. I'm sure if people were gay they would want to talk to other gay people about their experiences and insights, just as counter strike players share tactics and organise clans and matches.

Is the gay community an artefact of homophobia

I think this is a stereotype. Homophobia can discourage openness amongst the gay community, forcing them to become more secretive, even turning communities into a clique. This is not what this board is about. I for one welcome input from people of all creeds, even those that mitigate against homosexuality, (if the arguments presented are coherent and logical).

Talliesin

Well I'm thinking more about the Gay Community as a whole, rather than just this board (hence the separate thread).

Gordon

Yes I do believe there would be communities of Gay people because Gays are a minority (as far as we know) and you rarely, if ever, get communities of the majority because the WHOLE community (gay and straight) is seen as the community in the eyes of the majority hence no need to call it a community. It makes no difference how homosexuality is seen I believe.

DeVore

Ok, this is my turf now... I think a LOT about communities and why/how/where/etc. That doesnt mean I'm right of course but I've come up with some interesting thoughts on the topic...

Imho, communities spring from people who share a common trait or interest. (Duh!) So, there are trainspotting communities, Irish communities (sharing a location or heritage), professional communities etc etc

Normally you'll find that these people identify themselves out of a BIGGER community that is too impersonal or broad for their liking.
The tendancy to group together is hardwired into us from the days when lions would eat people. In a group you have a much larger chance of NOT being the one that gets eaten then if you are on your own.

Tribalism is so engrained its sometimes hard to see for the silly things it can generate. I mean, Quake vs CS.... both first person online mulitplayer games... you'd think the communities would be brothers-in-arms against the ignorance of the general populace but nope, they fight like cats and dogs sometimes...

Any population where there is a definable subset (especially a minority) will forum a community if given sufficent space to do so. Boards.ie is living proof of that.
People want to be different, they want to mark themselves as being apart from the maddening crowd and so identify themselves with outward signs: Medals or pins, badges, dress codes (goths, rockers, skater boys etc), even hankies from time to time in the case of homosexuals.
Haircuts, cars, accents all are used to distinguish yourself from the pack.

I've no doubt that people who share something as distinctive as a minority gender preference would seek each others company for more then just relationships.

DeV.

Talliesin

I wanted to ask the question first before I gave my own answer.
DeVore has hit the nail on the head about communities.
I am in a monogamous heterosexual relationship, and I never was much of a scene-queen. As such my lifestyle is pretty much "straight". But being bisexual is a big part of who I am and how I view myself and as such the gay community is "my people".
So yes, I think the gay community would exist as such in a homophobia-free world.
This also is my answer as to why we should have this board.

hedgetrimmer

I'd be interested to know how you express your bisexuality in a mongamun hetrosexual relationship. Not that I doubt you, honestly, but I'd imagine it might echo as guidance or ring true with some people here.

If it is too personal a thing to post, i obviously fully understand

yellum

Yeah there would be, but probably a lot of the support function that it provides now would be lost in an unbigoted world.

There would be no need for support groups for those coming out and telling their parents since people wouldn't really be coming out, well they might come out and say "I like the opposite sex or I like the same sex " but it wouldn't be the same deal that it is now.

Communities will always exist though to link those that have interests which are the same or alike.

Talliesin

I'd be interested to know how you express your bisexuality in a mongamun hetrosexual relationship.

Well apart from the fact that my wife and I may consider the same celebrities to be attractive I'm not sure if it has that much of a direct effect
There is the fact that I met her at an LGB event, so if it wasn't for my being a member of the Gay Community I would never have ended up in the monogamous heterosexual relationship I am in!

I would say that a lot of my attitudes about relationships have been influenced by my being bisexual. Since I would have been just as likely (probably more likely given the circles I moved in at the time) to have formed a lasting relationship with a man as with a woman a lot of the "conventional" ideas about male and female roles in relationships don't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.
Since my concept of my partner as someone I love, find attractive, enjoy being with, and want to spend the rest of my life with is not related to the fact that she is a woman I have less motivation for seeing her as different from me because of her sex, and beyond the ability to give birth and nurse there is no reason for us to divide the responsibilities of raising our children and running the home on any grounds other than what is truly practical.

Of course that is also true of heterosexual men with pro-feminist beliefs, and not true of every bisexual man in a straight relationship. It also doesn't make me completely devoid of conditioned notions or immune to taking advantage of male privilege. But it is a view that has some origin in my bisexuality.

As such it's not so much a matter of "expressing" my bisexuality, it's a matter of being bisexual. After all you are bisexual (or gay, or straight) when you aren't having sex. Having come out as bisexual, been very recognisably out (involved in events etc.), and pretty much "living in" the community for a long time. It is such a strong part of my identity that it isn't something that could go away.

I would say though, my being in a straight relationship did pose questions for me w.r.t. my identity for some time. This speech touches on some of the same identity issues I had for a while.

Nevyn

Just because you are in a long term realationship wiht a person of the oppsite gender and you have kids does not make you straight.

It is amazing how many people once they peg you as a breeder think that you could never be Bisexual or have any contacts wiht or have been part of a so called gay scene.

It is more then just sexual attraction, you fall in love with who you fall in love with and if you are Bi if can go either way.

It can mean losing friends as i did when you make that choice and there are a lot of people that think children just are not part of alterative living. That you have sold out, caved in or gave up. well they are wrong you go where happines and acceptence can be found.