Why don't girls play electric guitar?

Muppet Monarchy

Originally posted by Giblet
I have yet to see a girl who can play lead guitar half as well as any guys i know, including myself
Funktastics right, Its just more 'Male' to play guitar. Most Females WILL be stuck on basics like Oasis, Greenday et al. No harm in that, and there are just as many guys stuck there aswell, but there are more guys who want to progress. I'm a pretty experienced guitar player, and If i had to guess at the reasons why there is a lack of girls playing it is because they're not good enough to be in bands. The level of guitar/bass some girls play is usually low, but the need for an experienced player in most bands today is minimal (eg:JJ72) so you might see some girls in the band, but to be honest, Hillary is eye candy and she will probably never play much beyond root notes and maybe a few fifth notes or octaves thrown in if Mark shows her. You may not like it, or even be insulted, but its true, and its not my fault

I suppose you think it's more 'male' to fix cars, lift heavy weights, go out and work for a living, kill spiders, provide for their family, not be a good at showing their feelings, work on oil rigs, fight in the army, be a policeman etc. etc. etc.
It must be handy to justify things on that basis. That way, if anything's ever hard, or you don't do it as well as you like - it doesn't matter. It's not your fault, it's your silly, weak, feminine way. All you need now is for some nice young man to marry you so you can wash dishes for the rest of your life.

Muppet Monarchy

funktastic :
ok maybe down at the christian youth folk group they are just as good .Obviously you look less technically at music ,can hardly be seen as just as good though.

Music isn't ****ing maths. It doesn't matter how good you are technically. Someday, you may learn this too.

funktastic :
Jimmy Page ain't overrated either he brought about numerous progressions in recording along with guitar.

???

giblet :
Page is over rated? HOW!

And how come Slash is **** and you name no hopers like Kim Deal? Kim Deal couldn't play guitar beyond the basic chords!
Guns n Roses were one of the best guitar bands of the eigthies early ninetys. And theres no way you can deny Slashs' ability as a Guitarist. He came up with more riffs and inspired more people to play guitar than any "chick" guitarist. I take it you're biased because you're probably a girl yes?
And you must know a HELL of a lot of shít male guitarists, because I have never seen a girl come close to most people I know, except pure beginners.
And i have seen more than a few girls play guitar.
I take it most people on this forum can't play guitar beyond the basics to be singing the praises of Kim Deal et al. And calling Slash Page fret ****. NEWS FLASH: thats how you play guitar.

Wow. You blow me away man. How you can be in charge of anything is beyond me.
There is no right way to play guitar. No more than there's a right way to paint, or sculpt, or sing or anything creative. Bands who use basic chords : Beatles, Hendrix, Stones, Nirvana, REM, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.
It doesn't ****ING MATTER.

Giblet:
You're going on opinion more than fact!

Yes. Yes I am. My opinion is that it doesn't matter how (fast, well, many cigarettes you can smoke while) you play guitar, it's the emotion you convey in the context of the song that matters. Some big schmuck soloing for 7 minutes ain't gonna do it for me, brother.

Giblet:
Giblet He didn''t know where to place a solo or riff?!!! now come on thats bs, its plainly obvious that you've been playing the intro to "Where is my mind" too long, and have lost the plot. Seriously though are you taking the piss. Slash came up with some of the most original solos ever (even just solely using a pentatonic scale) and he knew damn well were to put them. And his riffs, well tbh I doubt you know what a riff is, to be making comments like that. Ok actually im gonna stop, I dont want to embarress you any further, and end on this point.

People are s**t at guitar because they wont expand on to bigger and greater things, and shouldn't comment on things they dont fully understand.

It gets better. Man, my fingers are hurting now.
Slash? Original? My arse!
You line up one of his solos against any other guitarist that was in any hairy metal band during the 80's ; there's no fekkin difference. It's all the same - hammer-ons, pull-offs, ridiculous bends, running up and down the scale like diarrhoea. Man, we've heard it all before. Are you familiar with Dinosaur Jr.?

Man, I left it sit a whole day before posting on this thread. Where's the credit, eh?

Shorty

Everybody should seriously check out Sleater Kinny. Forget about the girl thing, they're just a great band.

If ever a thread should be dipped in a vat of acid/shot from a cannon/blown up. Didn't we already have a thread like this when Joe Satriani came to town? Or maybe that was another board. This whole technical proficiency versus whatever is such a load of ****.

Muppet Monarchy

Why would you want it deleted? Maybe the rest of us were'nt around for that discussion! It's not like one extra thread is gonna destroy the board or somethin'!

Muppet Monarchy

From Giblet's personal website :

http://www.geocities.com/flacid_ie/slash03.jpg

Giblet

SO basically Muppet Monacrhy, you don't like progression, so you would be happy to be **** on guitar for the rest of your life and not learn anything.
I said Slash has played some of the most original solos, even using the pentatonic scale, which is the 80's rock scale, but he did different things with them, which is why he stood out.

funktastic :
Jimmy Page ain't overrated either he brought about numerous progressions in recording along with guitar.

???

I take it you dont know who Jimmy Page is, Lets just say that he came up with new studio recording techniques that are still used today. And he inspired many a guitarist.

You see you fail to grasp the whole point of this thread.

I'm trying to explain why girls dont play guitar, as asked in the first post. I answered, but you seem to be going off on this "What does Giblet know about guitar and music, When he obviously doesn't agree with me" tangent.

Also Music IS maths!
Try building a standardised musical instrument without it.

Giblet

Yes its a pic I used years ago on a Message board, and i had to host it, why?

Muppet Monarchy

I'm just trying to work out what the **** this 'progression' thing you're talking about is. What 'progressions' is Jimmy Page responsible for? What is it with your obsession with 'progression'.

Next, I'm not trying to say you know nothing about music (why does everyone on these boards take things so personally?). I'm just trying to point out where, and how, I disagree with you, by quoting comments you made, and then offering my own opinion. It's called discussion, y'all.

You're trying to explain why girls don't play guitar...Have you ever heard of any of the bands i mentioned above? If you had, you'd sure as **** think twice about saying that it was because girls are missing 'a certain anger/emotion to be expressed in rock'.

I don't fail to grasp the whole point of this thread. You failed to understand / read my rebuttals of your argument. Let's stick to those, shall we?

Of course music is maths, but if you're thinking mathematically while playing it, you may be missing a little.....something, don't you think?

I really really don't find Slash original at all. That's just my opinion, though.

kranog

Oh just say what the originator wanted to hear !!!

COZ..........THEY SUCK AT IT !!!

Nah, I'm just taking the urine ladies !!!
Peace,
kranog

http://www.popstar.ie

Giblet

Progression is getting better or introducing new better things.
Jimmy page came up with new ways to mike amps, record tracks, new techniques such as "backward echo", Better Mulitracked guitars, and hundreds of other things. Plus he was a damn fine geetarist.

Anyway, yes I know that girls can possess the ability to write great songs et al, but don't you think there are lots of girls LACKING in the same attitude it takes to play guitar like they are? Like how many of these bands are there. I would say male bands out number to the 100's or more.

I'm just making points above things I have observed everyday when dealing with bands.

Muppet Monarchy

No, I don't think girls are lacking in the attitude to play guitar. Again, I ask, are you at all familiar with any of these bands? I'm really not interested in how many bands of any kind there are. I don't think that's an issue.

Are you sure it was Jimmy Page who came up with those techniques, and not just a talented engineer / producer? Where's your bibliography?

I don't think playing any instrument should be about progression. I think that should be a by-product of doing something you love.

funktastic

Muppet Monarchy..I've nothing against girls playing guitar but the subject was raised about girls not being able to progress on the instrumnet due to rock being male dominated.It not all about being technical but there doesnt even seem to be a female guitarist who plays anything beyond effects driven solos or chords.Listen to 'Estranged' or 'Coma' if you think Slash is unimaginative.



Jimmy Page-Backwards echo startede by Page as a session musician and then used commonly,seen by Rolling stones producer Glyn Johns,recording drums-miking at distance ,listen to 'When the levee breaks',and don't say it's just the drummer,the miking makes that song, miking of amps.They got the best live sound of any band at the time,they received 90% of gate receipts from manager Peter Grant when bands were getting only 50% at the time,never released a single yet remain one of the biggest bands of all time.I wouldnt call what they did as not being innovative.

Giblet

Jimmy page WAS a talented producer!
Look on any Led-Zeppelin site, eg: http://www.led-zeppelin.com

Well you see, lack of female guitarists = lack of female guitar bands.

And I think thats what he's trying to find out about.

Don't get me wrong, jesus I love playing guitar, and I wouldn't play it otherwise. And I like to learn, and thats progression.

To be honest I haven't heard the bands, and I don't really need to, because I shouldn't need to be given examples, if ya know what I mean.

NeMiSiS

Girls cant play guitar cause you need a dick to bang the strings with,I thought it was that simple...least thats how I play.

:P

NeM

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by Giblet
To be honest I haven't heard the bands, and I don't really need to, because I shouldn't need to be given examples, if ya know what I mean.

Judging by the way you've gotten so wound up about the way people have been talking about Slash and Jimmy Page, and god-knows-who else, it would seem as if you're just not interested in any side of music that isn't loud, stadium rock. This is fine, each to their own and all that, but it makes a question like "Why aren't girls good at guitar" very difficult to answer. From my experience, girls are drawn more towards an emo sound (like Sleater-Kinney, or Bikini Kill), rather than the more male-dominated arena-rock.

You aren't interested in that kind of music, so you're saying they're "no good". That's a little uh.. short-sighted, don't you think?

johnnynolegs

excellent point Obey I applaud thee

Giblet

Well I haven't even heard of these girl bands ever in my life, and I dont think its a problem I have, more that I'm not going to seek out every little band someone says. I listen to plenty of different types of music, so its not like I ignore anything.

And the question that asked was, why dont girls play guitar, not whether they're any good or not, even though them not being any good could contribute to that.

Giblet

Oh and I'm not saying that people are crap just because they play a style of music I don't listen too. But would you compare Kim Deal to Slash in ability, not song writing.

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by Giblet
Well I haven't even heard of these girl bands ever in my life, and I dont think its a problem I have, more that I'm not going to seek out every little band someone says. I listen to plenty of different types of music, so its not like I ignore anything.

You wait for music to come to you?
This kinda explains your devotion to people like Slash and Jimmy Page

Seriously though - I'm not saying you're 'ignoring them'. Just that you have no interest in the type of music they typically make, and because of this, you miss the fact that they're there.

But to sum up - yes, there are many girls playing guitar. You just haven't heard of them.

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by Giblet
But would you compare Kim Deal to Slash in ability, not song writing.

In her ability to play REALLY FAST and REALLY LOUD? No. In her ability to understate a song with guitar, rather than to overstate it? Yes, definitely. Would I rate slash's songwriting abilities against.. well.. anyone? No.

But hey - didn't you just say this wasn't about whether they were 'good' or not?

Muppet Monarchy

Drums were mik'ed at distance long before Jimmy Page was a session musician. He may well have seen some of the above techniques used at sessions he was doing, and then used them on Zeppelin records, but I seriously doubt he invented them.

Giblet, me old matey. How can you comment on girls in music, without out having ever heard some of the most influential examples of the genre(using that term loosely there)? I believe you said :

Originally posted by Giblet
I'd say thats more of a problem you have yourself. Seriously though, learn to play better (give it a few years) You might appreciate good guitarists in ALL types of music, rather than strictly Indie/Grunge/Pop-Rock

Now then. Maybe you, too, should do your research a little better, hmm?

Giblet

Now come-on, I dont listen to every band ever.

But let me put it this way...I have both Space's albums.......

Giblet

To be honest, There was no understating in many Pixies songs.
And in the breeders, she wasn't so much of a guitarist than a bono, ya dig.

Muppet Monarchy

I don't listen to every band ever, but I still know all the bands you've mentioned. Also - read the posts, dude.

Giblet, me old matey. How can you comment on girls in music, without out having ever heard some of the most influential examples of the genre(using that term loosely there)?

Dig?

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by ObeyGiant
But hey - didn't you just say this wasn't about whether they were 'good' or not?

Whether you like the Pixies, or the Breeders, or whether I like Jimmy Page, or Slash is all completely irrelevant. You've said yourself that the question is about why girls don't play guitar.

They do.

Hell - you even brought up a female guitarist, all by yourself. Kudos, you answered your own question.

Giblet

OBEYGIANT FFS!

I know girls play guitar, jesus.

There are Far less of them though, and we were trying to find a route to cause.

Muppet Monarchy, I have heard Girl guitar bands in music, but what I'm basing more of my facts on is real life girls all around us! I have seen many pick up a guitar, and give up for a month, because of all the different factors I've discussed, and yes this happens to guys, but there are more guys who've gone on and play guitar. And I'm sure you've seen it too.

ObeyGiant

Now we're both entirely clear on what we're discussing, let's start actually discussing it.

Something that is really important to remember when talking about something like this is that the music industry (in particular, the 'rock establishment') has been a male-dominated arena for many years. When girl rock groups initially started springing up, they were treated as a 'novelty' (even bands like the Bangles were initially treated this way, until they got an influential supporter, high up in the music industry). This goes some way to suggesting a reason for the 'historical' lack of female guitarists.

Now, mainly thanks to the increase in independent record labels, music has diversified over the past couple of decades, and all sorts of different genres are available to whoever wants to get into them, rather than the traditional two-guitarists-bassist-drummer-three-chords-and-the-truth rawk setup. This has meant that there is an outlet (and - in most cases - a market) for all types of musical expression.

Which brings me to something I've said before - the majority of girl bands fall into the category of 'emo'. If not 'emo', certainly a more mellow sound than the types of music that teenage boys tend to listen to (big, loud, stadium rock). Of course there are exceptions to this - L7 being the first ones to spring to mind, but primarily, girls would tend towards gentler, more expressive music. And they've flourished - the emo section of your local record shop (it does have an emo section, right?) is most likely filled with girl-only bands.

So I would suggest that it's less a matter of girl guitarists not existing, and more a case of you just not being aware of them, for one reason or another.

funktastic

Yeah it's known that there are girls playing guitar but the point was that the majority do not progress at the same level.Thats basically it all the other points raised about Zeppelin etc are irrelevant. The points about Led Zeppelin and Guns N Roses were seperate as people were saying Slash and Page didn't do anything innovative.

And drums were never miked like on 'When the Levee breaks' to such effect before, a combination of Bonham's ability and Page's techniques he picked up.And it's known that he started backwards echo and the first proper use of bow on a guitar picked up from David McCallum's father.

Muppet Monarchy

Re: drum mics.
NO. I'm gonna need you to prove it. I just don't believe that.

Also, I discussed at length why I thought some people's theories about why girls didn't 'progress' (man, I'm starting to hate that word) were flawed. So it's not been all off-topic.

Giblet

Jimmy used a 50ft high stone staircase in a castle, stuck the drums at the bottom, stuck the mike hanging from the ceiling.
He also put mikes at the pedal end of the Bass Drum for greather depth.
On amps he used to use two mikes, instead of the standard one. One Behind the amp, and one far away in front.
He came up with these ideas, and they've been used since 1968.