The Rat and the Phone Book

spongebob

Amongst Eircoms jobs is the maintenance of the

Primary National Directory Enquiries database

If you get a circuit from another operator, typically Chorus ESAT or Worldcom.....but also the Mobile Networks......that number is supposed to go into the database IF requested.

There are 2 problems with this.

Problem 1 . If there is an Eircom number for your company it will ALWAYS be listed FIRST in the database and given out in response to Directory Enquiries requests FIRST if it exists. I know a guy with 2 E1 voice circuits and 300 DDI numbers from ESAT who got an Eircom analogue line installed for an alarm as ESAT don;t do analogue......guess which number 'made it' into the phone book ....it was installed around the cutoff for the next years directory ISTR

He had to

a) Get a new alarm line
b) Put permanent call forwarding on the Eircom line to divert to ESAT , this costs him about 20 Euros a month still.....3 years later or so.

It took about a week and shedloads of phonecalls for him to get rid of the Eircom number from the National Database. ESAT were no real help to him (or themselves as they should be terminating those calls).

Problem 2

The only way to find out what the Rat is up to is to ring 11811 to check the current entry in the database, this costs 60c a pop. Surely the RAT should be obliged to

a) Send out an annual notice of Directory Entries....maybe in the Feb/March Eircom bill for its own customers

b) It can then send a batch to the other carriers that they may send to THEIR customers with THEIR bills.

If you don't correct the entry, it goes forward into next years book....but you are warned. Maybe only Business lines should get these annual warnings.

Anybody notice the long term price of being inertial about the issue.?

M

Richard Barry

Why not print the phonebook entry on every phone bill issued – particularly for simple one or two line installations – together with a URL pointing them to a website where the customer can make changes? Personal and company circumstances are changing all the time and it may be appropriate to change an entry mid year so that it is up to date for the 118 lot.

Using one’s phone number and a four or six digit “PIN” derived from the account number – be it an eircom account number or one of the OLOs. If they are really paranoid about putting this application online, they can write to everyone who has made a change or put it in big print on the phone bill.

In the case of PRA customers with lots of DDIs and listings, the customer could be pointed to the same website to “see all”.

The porting / redirection of numbers could also be end-user performed on a web interface basis – particularly 1-800, +800, 1-850/890, 0818, 0700 and similar.

Finally eircom surely needs to be more proactive in keeping the truly horrible www.goldenpages.ie website up to date.

It would challenging to design a more unfriendly and useless user interface than that employed by goldenpages.ie....

R

jd

Originally posted by Richard Barry

Finally eircom surely needs to be more proactive in keeping the truly horrible www.goldenpages.ie website up to date.

It would challenging to design a more unfriendly and useless user interface than that employed by goldenpages.ie....

R

Golden pages isn't owned by eircom any more-they flogged it off to pay some of the debt..

Richard Barry

Originally posted by jd
Golden pages isn't owned by eircom any more-they flogged it off to pay some of the debt..

So what? It should be up to date and the interface still stinks.

R.

dahamsta

So what? It should be up to date and the interface still stinks.

So you said Eircom should fix it. If you have a problem with goldenpages.ie, you should complain about it to them.

adam

Richard Barry

Swisscom have an excellent online phonebook at www.whitepages.ch.

It’s updated every day.

You can search the entire country or a canton or a postcode or town for any name.

When you have found the entry you can add it to your personal phonebook with a click. Another click will produce a route map from your current location to the address in question.

You can also generate a public transport schedule to get to the address in question.

The business directory is at www.theyellowpages.ch

It is also available on CD and DVD. You can look up someone's details, get a satellite view of the street they live in with another click (with alterable angles of perspective) and if you are thinking of inviting them to lunch you can click for a street map in their area which comes complete with restaurant info. Click on the restaurant to reveal the phone number. The CD/DVD set also comes with a route planning system.


R.

(Cookies must be enabled for the site url)

Richard Barry

Originally posted by dahamsta
So what? It should be up to date and the interface still stinks.

So you said Eircom should fix it. If you have a problem with goldenpages.ie, you should complain about it to them.

adam

No I didn't - While the search interface is obviously a problem for the current owners of goldenpages.ie to sort out, I don't know where the "data up to dateness" problem lies - be it eircom as a (a semi-annual???) provider of data or the website operators.

I was simply criticising the goldenpages.ie product as it stands, as an aside, to the core thread of the problems of phonebook inaccuracy in Ireland.

One can't assume that all criticism in a given thread is directed solely at the party whose identity appears in the subject header.

R.

spongebob

Richard and I agree on the main point.

The primary database is in need of serious COMREG oversight.

Goldenpages are a derivative of this database but are more searchable than anything provided by Eircom.

BT have a quick basic searchable phonebook on their UK site, why is there no such interface for Ireland.......leading to more illegal earnings for the RAT as people ring 11811 to find out what should be in the public domain.

M

jd

Originally posted by Muck


BT have a quick basic searchable phonebook on their UK site, why is there no such interface for Ireland.......leading to more illegal earnings for the RAT as people ring 11811 to find out what should be in the public domain.

M

yes there is
go to www.eircom.ie -the phone book is there.
Its dog slow though

jd

Originally posted by Richard Barry
No I didn't - While the search interface is obviously a problem for the current owners of goldenpages.ie to sort out, I don't know where the "data up to dateness" problem lies - be it eircom as a (a semi-annual???) provider of data or the website operators.

I remmber someone (on one of the newsgroups) saying the goldenpages website runs on a box in crown alley-and is seriously underspecced. I dion't know how often the dtatabase is reloaded though

jd

Originally posted by Muck
Richard and I agree on the main point.

The primary database is in need of serious COMREG oversight.

i agree too, actually.

Dustaz

Im tempted to move this thread, but i honestly cant think of anywhere it should go ..

sceptre

Originally posted by Dusty Claus
Im tempted to move this thread, but i honestly cant think of anywhere it should go ..

I can - to Business/Economy it goes.

(may be of as much interest to regulars over there)

Richard Barry

Originally posted by jd
yes there is
go to www.eircom.ie -the phone book is there.
Its dog slow though

Not only slow, the eircom phonebook doesn’t have its own domain name.

1) One can only search residential subscribers by county. So if you are looking for someone with a common name in a big county and don’t know their first name one might have to wade through several thousand entries page after page.

2) Any well thought out search interface would allow one to specify the town at a very minimum, not to mention the street name and NDC. If a handful of people don’t wish to be searchable by these criteria, they can surely remove the information they don’t wish to be searchable by from their directory entry.

3) The conduit database has a similar problem – try looking up a number in Cork city and it lists entries from all over the county (and further) – even though one has specified the town and county. (The county should be unnecessary in virtually all search events as there are very few town names duplicated in Ireland, and where duplication is present the towns in question are relatively small).


R.

PS Why the move? This directory information matter has as much to do with Ireland’s “offlineness” and its awful infrastructural deficit as the issues DSL, cable internet, etc.

If someone’s phone number can’t be easily found they might as well be offline in terms of being reachable. It certainly has as much to do with residential subscribers as business users.

I would have thought that content is best left where it was originally posted unless there is an overwhelmingly more appropriate slot for it (eg a non-broadband related posting about X-box or Linux in IrelandOffline) – which is not surely the case here!

[With apologies to the “residents” of Business / Economy who may have no interest in the domestic affairs of IrelandOffline]

spongebob

Originally posted by jd
yes there is
go to www.eircom.ie -the phone book is there.
Its dog slow though

There is a link in there to the GOLDEN PAGES if you search on a Business.

The Golden Pages, a Private Company is NOT responsible for running the Primary National Numbering Database, Eircom have that responsibility.

Therefore we should be searching Their database and not somebody elses.

I also think that this should be moved back to its original location or to Net /Comms. The Numbering Database is part of the Eircom USO which is shortly coming up for discussion apparently.

M

Victor

Then use both. With goldenpages.ie you can add the town to it. On the Goldenpages site using "Murphy" and "Clonakilty" instead of "Cork" takes your from 1192 entries to 35. Although Eircom will give you 2943.

spongebob

Eircom are Responsible for the database and not Goldenpages.

Comments on the Goldenpages UI are tangential at best.

Now the USO consultation has started can this be poked back into the IoffL forum pls

M

jd

Originally posted by Muck
Eircom are Responsible for the database and not Goldenpages.

Comments on the Goldenpages UI are tangential at best.

Now the USO consultation has started can this be poked back into the IoffL forum pls

M

What do directory services have to do with Internet access..
this thread is in the corrrect forum..