Certifications in IT industry

jim_rebels

What do you guys think of certifications?
Was a time when CCNA / MCSE meant something.

I did MCSA and CCNA, doing CCNP as soon as I can get off my lazy arse.
Any CCIE's on this site??

Any Oracle and Solaris / LINUX certified people out there?

Gaz

MCSE's aint regarded to highly anymore , to many paper mcse's out there.

CCNA on the other hand still holds some credibility, Im hoping to start CCNP soon myself ..just need to get motivated.

CCIE is still a major cert though and can demand a high salary , well before the IT slump it was 70-80 grand if not more, doubt you would get that now though

BogoBot

In no particular order, I've done MCSE(NT4), MCSE(W2K), CCNA, CCSA, CASE, CISSP. I'm currently working towards CCNP and then either RHCE or Solaris.

They don't carry much weight on their own but if you can show experience in the subjects you are certified in then you can get past the HR interview and onto proving to an IT Manager/Senior admin that you know something other than where to find the best braindumps.

Anyone who hires on the basis of a candidates certs and not on a technical interview deserves what they get.

Bogobot.

jim_rebels

The CISSP BogoBot is a venerable achievement (isn't that the exam you need to prove 3 years hands on first??)

Ya I agree they get ya passed the HR interview and then it's up to you to show that you are not merely paper certified.
There are only 31 CCIE's in Ireland, just checked. I'd be interested to know what they are doing and where they are working.

BogoBot

The CISSP is a pretty big undertaking and there are some checks in place to maintain its value. The exam itself is very difficult but I reckon its fair....there are a couple of essential books I can recommend if anyone is interested.

After I passed the exam I was audited (a random selection of people who pass are) which meant I had to provide more proof of my experience. I was a bit worried that I had wasted about EUR550 but my accreditation came through about six weeks ago.

I suppose its a case of trying to persue certs that complement your experience _and_ provide the credibility to move into other fields. I'd love to get CCIE but I doubt I'd be up to it without another 3 to 5 years hard core networking.

Bogobot.

java

In my opinion, experience counts far more than letters after your name. I met a guy doing his CCNA who had never even seen a Cisco router! How much help is he going to be when a WIC dies and needs replacing? Real world experience is far more worthwhile - if your lucky enough to get it. Of course there is nothing wrong with also having certification.

BogoBot

Originally posted by java
I met a guy doing his CCNA who had never even seen a Cisco router! How much help is he going to be when a WIC dies and needs replacing?

I hope that anyone who interviews this quy realises his inexperience...could make for a nasty day in the NOC : - )

On the other hand, if you browse a job site/recruiter page some of the job spec's are quite ludicrious....degree, experience and perhaps a cert for a 1st/2nd level helpdesk? This kind of alphabet soup recruitment is partly to blame for the increase in paper certs.
I saw one about 2 hours ago that wanted eight years experience in .net ....People massage their CV's and accumulate certs in the hope of measuring up to imaginary positions/titles/skillsets.

I wholeheartedly agree that experience is what counts...and the above behaviour makes that experience difficult to aquire.

Bogobot

bricks

How would you get this:)
You'd have to be somehow doing .NET stuff before it was even out. Hell you'd have to be doing it before Windows 95 was even out.

Thats probably a good acid test for a CV tho, check if the OS that the applicant claims experience in actually existed for the number of years they claim to be experienced in it:).

MarVeL

I was working on a site some years back and had two technicians assigned to my team at one stage who were both recent MCSEs. We needed to get some test PCs built for a lab and I assigned these "techies" to the task. All that was required was NT 4, not even networked.

When I checked back an hour later they were still trying to figure out how to use the build disk and cd I'd provided them with.

Experience should always be more important than certs but the cert on its own may just get you through the door (and assigned to some poor buggers team)

ando

Originally posted by MarVeL
I was working on a site some years back and had two technicians assigned to my team at one stage who were both recent MCSEs. We needed to get some test PCs built for a lab and I assigned these "techies" to the task. All that was required was NT 4, not even networked.

When I checked back an hour later they were still trying to figure out how to use the build disk and cd I'd provided them with

thats unbelievable, really is :mad:

MarVeL

I've heard similar stories from other people as well. The braindumps and, to a lesser extent, transcenders and the like have largely devalued the MCSE as a proof of technical expertise. Nowadays it seems to prove only that someone can remember the answers for the duration of the exam. I have heard rumours of a more practically focussed exam but I haven't been keeping up with the current requirements. It sounds like it would be a definite step forward.

Then again one of my fellow Computer Science graduates had to be shown how to turn on a pc in his final year so maybe there really is nothing new under the sun.

GUI

its another thing keeping up ur qualification too!

Mr. Fancypants

Originally posted by jim_rebels
There are only 31 CCIE's in Ireland, just checked. I'd be interested to know what they are doing and where they are working.

Only 31 in Ireland? Have 5 where i work.....maybe 6 now i think about it. It is a particlulary difficult exam, with a week in almost an almost prison like system doing labs etc. But i would of thought there where more than 31 with Ireland being on the cutting edge of technology etc etc etc.
Oh, in case i somehow gave the impression i am CCIE qualified, im not

jim_rebels

Ya 31 is quiet low, I am guessing you work for a telecoms company,
CCIE's

The practical exam is brutal alright, I have seen the lab set up.

Mr. Fancypants

Actually looking at those figures 31 seems alright in comparison to the rest of Europe taking into account population size etc.

And yes, i do work for Telecommunications Company. Not one of the evil ones the lads on Ireland Offline love to hate so much tho'.

STaN

some1 run through what the different qualifications mean and what you are "ment" to be able to do with them.

Say some1 needed a very expierenced people in bandwidth management, server management, packet manipulation.... the job would be a large operation involving in the linux/windows2k servers and IP traffic, VPN's, proxies, firewalls etc

GUI

good luck with that stan
i wouldnt go near ur place for 50 grand a year.

bascially
CCIE is highest qualification you can get from cisco
bascially says ur a bit of a god in all network environments.

server administration hard to benchmark really.
im impressed when i meet someone who can
administrate samba .. and win2k server
means they got good linux and windows server administration skills

STaN

no offence but wouldnt let u near me with a 10ft barge poll

as per our irc conversations,

so whats the 1 under it

yellum

CCNP

Gavin

Originally posted by GUI_XP
good luck with that stan
i wouldnt go near ur place for 50 grand a year.

bascially
CCIE is highest qualification you can get from cisco
bascially says ur a bit of a god in all network environments.

server administration hard to benchmark really.
im impressed when i meet someone who can
administrate samba .. and win2k server
means they got good linux and windows server administration skills

Means jack **** really. Samba and windows 2000 can be configured with a person with very little networking knowledge. I would certainly not rate a person highly if they were to profess these abilities in their CV.

Gav

GUI

Stan i believe ur the person who lacks in computer knowledge..
how many times did u **** up ur pc u tried to build ;-)

how many times did i help u through each problem u developed.

dont bother with CCNP
u wouldnt even get the CCNA :-)

STaN

shows what ye know, i didnt build it.. it was given to me

and its not me going for qualifications

GUI

sure its xmas Stan
we shall agree to disagree
(or argue it out on irc ;-)

STaN

yes i shall agree that all this is OT

GUI

agreed