infidelity

rachel · 18-12-2002 4:07pm #1

Something that was said in the ''women huf'' thread got me thinking about infidelitySIZE=1]not actually engaging in it but just about it.[/SIZE, when I think Lili mentioned that if someone cheats something is lacking in the relationship.
What level of infidelity would you allow and still take your partner back or would any type of cheating lead to a goodbye.
A couple of my friends said that anything from a drunken kiss in a club to a full blown affair is inexcusable and that would be that others said they'd allow another chance if their partner was genuinely sorry and they were going to try and work at getting back together.
Just wondering what the views on this in here are.

hedgetrimmer · 18-12-2002 4:21pm

I think, for me, it depends on the motivation behind the action. We've all done stupid things when drunk, but I think you maintain a level of judgement when drunk about actually having sex, but snogging *can* occur when pissed before you know what you are doing.

Tazz T · 18-12-2002 4:28pm

Yup, depends on the situation/relationship. People can make mistakes. If it's out of character, you should know. Some ppl never learn tho from their mistakes tho and should be discarded as faulty.

Riamfada · 18-12-2002 4:28pm

Im totally against any form of infidelity. All types. It shows that a person cant be trusted and that if they would consider getting close to somone else than they obviously dont care that much, drunk or not. Here i take no excuses, its A serious smell ya later situation. AND i think women are so much worse than men on this respect. This new independeny woman thing that the spice girls introduced has created a generation of sluts and tarts who do what they want. ( exceptions of course )

seamus · 18-12-2002 4:31pm

Originally posted by rachel
What level of infidelity would you allow and still take your partner back or would any type of cheating lead to a goodbye.

None, none at all. Regardless if I'm hammered, I still know 'do not kiss someone else', not that I have any compulsion to do it anyway. If I was so drunk that I 'forgot' this, then I'd either be asleep, or incapable of co-ordinated body movement, ruling it out anyhow. No 3 strikes, no second chances, she'd have her marching orders.

Women are way more forgiving than men. Some surveys put the figure at 50% of women would take back a cheating partner, but only 15% of men would. Interesting.

Typedef · 18-12-2002 4:34pm

Infidelity.

For me, I have 'quite often' been the sort of fella girls like to cheat on their boyfriends with as opposed to being the boyfriend.
Certainly I wouldn't go out with a girl who I knew had cheated on her boyfriend (particularly if she did the cheating with me!).

The odd snog is fine when you are 14 and so on, but when you start getting into relationships with people, sleeping around on them is umm, the sort of thing lots of people 'brag' about, but rarely actually do.

Maybe it is just because I'm a fella, but I like clearness and unambiguity in a relationship, it's easier for me as it's easier for the girl, a often leads to b after all.

In any case infedility is only the sort of thing I would tolerate, if I had no choice, by that I mean if I was married with a sprog or two, I could tolerate a single act of infedility, mostly due to the amount of time, effort and energy I had invested in the relationship.
In this regard my tolerance for infedility is a function of time/energy investment in a relationship. So right now, not being married and not having a sprog, I would have absolutely no time for an unfaithful chick.

Yes I'll admit when I was younger and wilder I was a bastard, and deep down, underneath it all, I suppose I still am a bastard. So would I be unfaithful again? Perhaps, but mostly in former relationships, when I did end up with another girl, it was because the relationship I was in was in big trouble anyway, so I was looking for another lover, before giving up on the one I had.

If that sounds cold and calculating, umm, no offence, I don't mean to offend the sensibilities of ye, who believe in a perfect world.
No really.

Typedef · 18-12-2002 4:37pm

Posted by me
I could tolerate a single act of infedility, mostly due to the amount of time, effort and energy I had invested in the relationship.

That said, I would most certainly go out of my way, to even the playing field if I knew my wife had slept with someone else.

I'm a great believer in give and take in that regard.
Quid pro quo agent Starling.
You sleep around, I sleep around, Quid pro quo.

A girlfriend? A girlfriend would be kept on board the Loveboat for as long as it took me to find a replacement, by which time my love would be told in no unambiguous terms that she was being jilted for a younger, firmer, more faithful model.
And try not to let the door hit your ass on the way out love.

Edit: kiss

Shiminay · 18-12-2002 5:02pm

Drunken snogs or pinches of bums or general messing that may involve a grope of something inapropriate can and will happen - they shouldn't mind you.

If I knew my partner was just doing something like that for the craic and had no meaning behind it, then that's OK (any doubt as to the seriousness of the thing would complicate things).

I mean in fairness, I've done it myself infront of partner (and vice versa) and all concerned knew it was being done for the craic so there was no stress.

Anything more (i.e. anything that had any sort of real meaning) - even when drunk would end up with a very big "fuck you and goodbye" and assurances that the entire world would come to know what sort of person said unfaithful type is.

thedrowner · 18-12-2002 5:05pm

i dont think i could do it to someone, i remember being in a relationship with someone i didnt really care too much about and i got an offer off someone else i was slightly interested in when i was incredibly drunk and i told them i couldnt be with them coz of my boyf. i dont really understand why i said no, i must've cared about the boyf in question a lot more at the time then i do now (mental note: duh)....

again i think it depends on the situation. if i didnt care about someone who cheated on me my pride would probably give them the boot, but if it was someone i really cared about and they only did it the once, id probably take them back. repeated cheating i cant tolerate.

Kell · 18-12-2002 5:28pm

The abuse I am going to get for this from the lads- but here goes. I turned down the offer of a threesome once with two women in the name of fidelity. It wasnt just an offer either. One was half naked and throwing herself at me. Never again, married, engaged, I dont care. Mind you, since then the opportunity has never presented itself again. The old rule of lightening never strikes twice applies to threesomes to methinks.

logic1 · 18-12-2002 7:14pm

Originally posted by Typedef
That said, I would most certainly go out of my way, to even the playing field if I knew my wife had slept with someone else.

I'm a great believer in give and take in that regard.
Quid pro quo agent Starling.
You sleep around, I sleep around, Quid pro quo.

A girlfriend? A girlfriend would be kept on board the Loveboat for as long as it took me to find a replacement, by which time my love would be told in no unambiguous terms that she was being jilted for a younger, firmer, more faithful model.
And try not to let the door hit your ass on the way out love.

Edit: kiss

You're still a virgin right?

.logic.

Victor · 18-12-2002 7:24pm

Isn't cheating defined by what the other person objects to?

Originally posted by rachel
not actually engaging in it but just about it.

Damn, did you have to shoot me down on boards, a text message wasn't impersonal enough.

Originally posted by rachel
A couple of my friends said that anything from a drunken kiss in a club

Well I think a 'kiss' is one thing, a snog and a grope is another. I would also depend on how 'transparent' the behavior is. If the 'cheater' is deliberatly hiding the cheating then it is much more serious. However if it is just a quick kiss on the lips with the partner there, then I don't quite think it is cheating.

rachel · 18-12-2002 7:50pm

Originally posted by Victor
Well I think a 'kiss' is one thing, a snog and a grope is another.

By kiss I meant snog, I think. If a snog still involves tongue action interaction.
(I'm not as down with the lingo as I used to be).

sutty · 18-12-2002 8:10pm

I think feelings also play into it. while sleeping with someone is wayyyyy out of line. a drunken kiss means very little, unless there are feelings from the two parties involved. IE: two friends who have feelings for each other. Also how you find out is something to consider. If you have to find out off someone who seen them at a night club or pub or someone who heard from someone ect..
Rather than the person who comited the act saying something up frunt. For me I guess a drunken kiss/snog with no feelings behind it means very little. But one with feelings behind it or if its more that a once off with the same person would force me to drop them like a sack of spuds

smiles · 19-12-2002 12:58am

Hmmm.... given my "esteemed" partner's views on this I guess I should be getting drunk more often ( :P )

I dunno, I'm a flirt, always have been, always will, and a lot of guys tend to have a problem with that (guys i'm going out with that is - the others dont mind at all! :P ), but... in my eyes it's just a bit of fun and a bit of craic.

Drunken snogs? /me shrugs, again a bit of fun.

<< Fio >>

DeadBankClerk · 19-12-2002 1:12am

OMG someone was trying to get Rachel drunk :O

Lump · 19-12-2002 1:21am

Yea, but isn't there a difference if you do it in-front of your partner? Because if you were having an affair you are hardly going to do it right in front of their eyes. I dont think that counts. I went out with a girl in England, she used snog people in front of me. I used snog birds in front of here. It all seemed ok. However if I had found out that she was doing it behind my back I'd be a bit pissed.

Any way, we don't go out anymore, not because of that, but of "other issues"

John

Tazz T · 19-12-2002 10:46am

Don't most cases of infidelity begin with a drunken snog?

So wouldn't you be worred that one of the 'fun' drunken snogs your partner has turns into something more serious?

WhiteWashMan · 19-12-2002 10:56am

Originally posted by smiles

Drunken snogs? /me shrugs, again a bit of fun.

but thats the problem isnt it. its not about your fun, its about how much fun your partner thinks it is.

im of the belief 'do unto others...'
so, i wouldnt do the dirt, because i woudltn want my partner too. the rest i leave to trust.

and in my eyes, a drunken snog is inexcusable. if you cant even be let out to get drunk and control yourself, then you dont respect your partner and you dont respect yourself.

sutty · 19-12-2002 12:38pm

Well if we are talking about what I would consider my own moral code when I'm out. I wont cheat in anyway. If I'm out dancing or something, I'd be more likely to go into my own little world rather than start looking for someone to dance with/snog/shag.

Shiminay · 19-12-2002 12:46pm

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Eamo - how would your partner feel about it?

Different people feel very differently about these things. Your own opinions might not match those of your partners.

Fun is fun, but make sure it's fun for all concerned.

BTW Hun, your being a flirt doesn't bother me at all

Jak · 19-12-2002 1:52pm

"You must remember this ... "

If the person cheats (kisses someone etc) on me behind my back and at some calm rational moment later on lets me know, I am not too worried about it. As long as I don't know the bloke, I don't think I would be crying myself to sleep over the matter.

Sleeping with people is a different level for me, and I probs would not tolerate, nor expect it to be tolerated. That isn't to say I would not still stay in touch or be friends with the person (as long as we still got on) - I'm all for amicable breakups and hate the fact that so many people view them as something of an impossibility .. to quote an ex "If you leave me, I never want to see you again" .. charming.

At the start of a relationship though (given that we are not 12, and you don't ask someone .. "Dyou wanna be my girlfriend?" and sign a contract) I tend to still see other people, and have done so in every relationship.

As things progress, I get more involved and behave.

That said, unless I intend to marry the person, I will not, nor will I expect from them, total property rights.

People get very uptight about these things to the utter detriment of their quality of life in my view. Everything is taken so personally, whereas that is not always the case.

I think secretly some people just love the drama of it all - personally I fkin loathe it.

JAK.

Lord Khan · 19-12-2002 2:41pm

infidelity is a word regardless of what people think. it has a straight-forward meaning
the quality of being unfaithful . regardless of the stance in which it is done.

There is no unilateral reason that makes it "ok" as some of you think, which I have to be honest makes me doubt your intentions towards the whole aspect. You can use excuses such as amount of alcohol consumes or it was just a kiss (nice long list to go through). Some people even get into relationships seeing the possiblity of cheating, dating neive partners who just who accept they are cheating, or flirts who they can say are the reason for their lack of fidelity. I am very rigid about going out with anybody, as I'm one of these kinds that have to be sure, rather than just have a partner.

I'd be inclined to do the same as sutty when going out too, He can make the excuse that he goes into his own world but fact is ... he is honest to his better half

. Being drunk doesn't make you do things you don't want to do. Being drunk makes you slower. If you do "cheat" on your partner I'd advice you to talk to them ( as said before when they are sane and calm), not a year later or just hide it. It's the act not the deed that defines the situation. It applies to everything in life.

I, as said before don't even consider the idea of cheating when going out.

Victor · 19-12-2002 2:56pm

Anyone seen "Metropolitan"?

Originally posted by Lord Khan
infidelity is a word regardless of what people think. it has a straight-forward meaning the quality of being unfaithful . regardless of the stance in which it is done.

un&#183;faith&#183;ful adj. 
1. Not adhering to promises, obligations, or allegiances; disloyal. See Synonyms at faithless. 
2. Not true or constant to one's sexual partner. Not true to one's spouse; guilty of adultery. 
3. Not justly representing or reflecting the original; inaccurate. 
4. Obsolete. Deficient in or lacking religious faith; unbelieving.

Of course faithfulness or unfaithfulness is subjective (and should be judged by the other partner) - in the case of swingers / some bisexuals / "wife-swappers" or the like, the main factor of faithfulness is who you go home to, not with.

What about Mormons, Muslims and other groups with multiple partners? Are they by definition unfaithful?

(There are also many lesser levels of this).

Talliesin · 19-12-2002 2:59pm

in the case of swingers / some bisexuals / "wife-swappers" or the like

"some bisexuals" presumably meaning those who are swingers / "wife-swappers" or the like?

sutty · 19-12-2002 3:06pm

Originally posted by Lord Khan
[B
I'd be inclined to do the same as sutty when going out too, He can make the excuse that he goes into his own world but fact is ... he is honest to his better half [/B]

Guess I left that one a bit open. What I meant was that I would just dance (not with someone) nor would I try to pick someone up or be picked up. I've never been unfaithful in any sence of the word.

as for the better half.... what better half, I'm single and as I stated before in an other post somewhere.. I'm too single

WhiteWashMan · 19-12-2002 3:24pm

Originally posted by Jak
"You must remember this ... "

If the person cheats (kisses someone etc) on me behind my back and at some calm rational moment later on lets me know, I am not too worried about it. As long as I don't know the bloke, I don't think I would be crying myself to sleep over the matter.

Sleeping with people is a different level for me, and I probs would not tolerate, nor expect it to be tolerated. That isn't to say I would not still stay in touch or be friends with the person (as long as we still got on) - I'm all for amicable breakups and hate the fact that so many people view them as something of an impossibility .. to quote an ex "If you leave me, I never want to see you again" .. charming.

At the start of a relationship though (given that we are not 12, and you don't ask someone .. "Dyou wanna be my girlfriend?" and sign a contract) I tend to still see other people, and have done so in every relationship.

As things progress, I get more involved and behave.

That said, unless I intend to marry the person, I will not, nor will I expect from them, total property rights.

People get very uptight about these things to the utter detriment of their quality of life in my view. Everything is taken so personally, whereas that is not always the case.

I think secretly some people just love the drama of it all - personally I fkin loathe it.

JAK.

again andy, its not down to how you feel about it. if you spend the night with someone other than your partner, then i think the important bit is how your partner feels about it.
remember, i may have the attitude of 'do unto others as you would have done unto thine self', however, my partner may not see it that way.
in other words, just because you believe its fine to snog someone because you feel your not owned by someone else, doesnt mean that your partner will turn around and say 'you know what, im being silly, of course you can be with whomever you want'. i cant see many people being so secure in themselves that they will allow their partner to run amok around them, which is basically what you are saying there.
what if your partner did it, while you were happy in the knowledge and secure in your relationship, until she says 'actually, you know what, hes a better fúck than you are, im outta here'. i think your views would be sorely tested in a situation like that. most likely youd call her every name under the sun including a slut and a slag.
but, hey, you say its ok to do the dirt....

Jak · 19-12-2002 4:08pm

Ahh eamo ..

We've had this talk before.

Most important thing is I don't lie. My girlfriend or anyone I see, will on a number of occasions have had me tell them the way I am. I force no choices on people, nor do I mislead them. I always try to ensure people keep perspective on things and to keep the relationship at a level I am happy with. At the moment I am very happy, but i have still explained this will "not be the last relationship i am ever in".

Again, I have had a girl cheat on me, but I always maintain a level of distance in these things - I don't throw my whole self into something. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the relationship and care and be willing to throw myself in front of a bullet for someone.

I just always appreciate that there is more than one person in the world for me and I believe that I could always find someone else and my life would be all the richer for the different experiences.

I refuse to be trapped early into something I may later regret.

JAK.

WhiteWashMan · 19-12-2002 4:26pm

Originally posted by Jak

Most important thing is I don't lie. My girlfriend or anyone I see, will on a number of occasions have had me tell them the way I am. I force no choices on people, nor do I mislead them. I always try to ensure people keep perspective on things and to keep the relationship at a level I am happy with

and thats all well and good, and i have no problem with that, however, its gotta be hard finding someone to be with who knows that they are always going to play second fiddle to some bit of stuff that catches your eye.....

i agree that honesty is always best, however, tht doesnt mean that if you tell your girlfriend she will forgive you. i wouldnt. but im not your girlfriend

as for perspective, in my case it would be, you slept with someone and that is disrespectful to me.

or do you hook up with women who dont mind because they lack self respect? or is it part of a swingers club? im confused. i just dont see how you can have a sexual act with someone while you are in a relationship with someone else. any sort of sexual act from snogging to sex as far as im concerned shows a complete lack of respect.

Originally posted by Jak
Again, I have had a girl cheat on me, but I always maintain a level of distance in these things - I don't throw my whole self into something. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the relationship and care and be willing to throw myself in front of a bullet for someone.

well then if you keep level headed and maintain a distance, then maybe its because youre not too worried about it? maybe you dont respect, trust and love your partner as much as you would make out?

Originally posted by Jak
I just always appreciate that there is more than one person in the world for me and I believe that I could always find someone else and my life would be all the richer for the different experiences.

I refuse to be trapped early into something I may later regret.

JAK.

who says you have to be trapped, or need to regret anything?
if you are not happy in a relationship then you should move on. seems fairly straight forward to me.
or maybe you have difficulty in commiting in a relationship, and by giving yourself these little 'escape clauses' you are allowing yourself the security blanket you need to cope in a relationship.

however, i feel that if you are part of a relationship, then if you do any sort of infidelity, then you are breaking the trust of the person you are with and you are disrespecting it.

the main point is where each persons 'personal line' is crossed and what diffreent people would deem an infidelity. some would say a snog while drunk is not, personally i would. did you trip over and stick your tongue in their mouth? you willingly engage in a sexual act with someone else, something that i would find hurtful.
oh, and no, i wouldnt consider taking someone back unless there were some seriously extrenuating circumstances...........

lili · 19-12-2002 4:36pm

well, i didn't have the time to read all the posts (cause as you have certainly noticed, my english is not so well) so, i hope my post will not make a double.

when i talked about infidelity in the women houf topic, i was talking about someone who has 2 men or 2 women in his or her life. i mean, if you need to get away what you don't have at home, you have to break with your regular. i know couples who stand this situation cause the kids and seems to me not acceptable. how a guy or a woman may return in the arms of his or her regular when they just leave their amant or maitress?
for the occasionaly cheats, it's different, depends the situation and sometimes people has to realize their fantasms. after all, we have only one life:)

infidelity

Comments