EsatBT Residential Package, bye bye unlimited cap

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by eth0_
I aint justifying anything. I just think it's a waste of time moaning here. Moan to the source of the problem.

Moan to Esat? What's the point - just boycott them..

EDIT: I do hope that you're not implying that the source of the problem is Eircom or someone else - this is purely Esat and their concept of competition.

patrickmooney

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
FFS, their database is even older than eircom's. I've got DSL for over a year - and I got the thumbs up from one of Esat's resellers only to be told on the website that DSL isn't available in my area as yet, and I should consider Netsmart - very professional, twits!

Which Esat BT DSL service did you get the thumbs up for? There are two, residential and corp. Only 12 out of all available Esat BT exchanges are open for the residential service as I type. So you may be able to use i-stream and Esat BT Corp DSL, but your exchange isn't residential DSL compatible yet. If in doubt, ring them.

Tellox

The letter campaign sounds great, dont go down without a fight ect ect.. give us a printoff/send us the postcards, and give us the return address..

De Rebel

Further proof that ESAT and Eircom are a duopoly/cartel and that market forces, competition and all that b0llix aren’t worth a sh1t in this tiny little market.

Before they announced the cap this was a crap product anyway. In price/performance terms it’s identical to Eircom’s offering - the most expensive in the OECD and the EU.

Only political action is going to achieve change. IOFFL's efforts in 2003 should be singularly directed to lobbying for political action.

zynaps

What confuses me is that they received €9 million in the first place, to supposedly participate in the broadband "rollout".

Why have they been given a bloody big amount of money by the government, only to come out with something basically the same as eircom's dsl, only with 50% of the speed and around 55% of the price?

Perhaps the government should be looking for companies they believe will attempt to actually further the broadband situation, as IBB have been (on an albeit very small scale so far) doing.

Granted, an arbitrary sum of money doesn't necessarily transform the company into something that can handle hundreds of thousands of customers, but it's surely more deserved by someone like them than someone like esat, in the light of this latest offering.

I'd certainly rather see our money (because it is our money really) go to people trying to push the envelope here, than big corporations trying to merely maximise profit by staying .01 steps ahead of eircom.

Perhaps IBB are merely offering their service because it is so EASY to compete with this crap. Time will tell.

zynaps

eth0_

Originally posted by De Rebel

Only political action is going to achieve change. IOFFL's efforts in 2003 should be singularly directed to lobbying for political action.

FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

Dustaz

Dont know what to think about this one. Esat have blathered on endlessly about flat rate and then they restrict thier own service with a pitiful cap.

I agree with eth0 that this does look like a similar thing to the eircom cap. In fact it seems to me that its more or less there to support any 'spirit of the service' action they might take in the future. Being honest i dont really have a problem with that. If someone wants to download 30 gigs a month fine but i sure as hell am not going to subsidise them.

Having said that the 4gb figure is clearly still utter **** and unworkable in light of todays internet.

Dustaz

Originally posted by De Rebel

In price/performance terms it’s identical to Eircom’s

No its not.

Both Esats 512 and 256 offerings are significantly different to eircoms in performance and specs.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by eth0_
FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

I agree with De Rebel. Of course the government are aware of the situation, but despite the fibre rings, directive to comreg, etc., it is still fairly low down on their priorities. The problem is not that ESAT have brought out a rubbish product, but rather that there are no alternatives from other companies being offered. There is now effectively a duopoly on broadband in Ireland and such situations never lead to decent products being made available.

I don't think it is enough, though, to just nag the government to "do something". You must suggest concrete measures that will actually solve the problem. One such measure would be the lowering of the bizarre bitstream wholesale rate. This would allow companies like UTV to provide DSL services here like they do in the North.

De Rebel

Originally posted by eth0_
FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

Etho

I don't understand what your point is and frankly I find your post rather stupid.

I have never suggested firebombing anything. Nor would I.
I am not sure why you consider me uninformed. Please expand.
I did not propose that we attempt to inform the Minister. I am aware that the minister is aware of the problem and that the minister has promised to act. I suggested that we lobby for change. Political promises are cheap, IOFFL needs to redouble its efforts and ensure that the promises are followed up.

zynaps

eth0_'s posts seem to consist of berating responses to posts made by other people (including me).
Generally in a mocking tone. Boring

zynaps

MDR

Lets get off eth0_ case, he has valid point of view and is making it without malice. Its ESAT you are mad at not him, ESAT may or may not impose this cap, what galls me is that have left the option open.

eth0_

I'm a she!
I just think it's completely lame to react to this by starting a thread to bitch about the new Esat product.
Stop being all talk and maybe DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?

MarkR

what galls me is that have left the option open

Bit sinister all right.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Dusty Claus
Both Esats 512 and 256 offerings are significantly different to eircoms in performance and specs.

I beg to differ.

From a price performance perspective the Eircom & ESAT's entry point offerings are the same.

Connection charges : pretty much the same
CAP : pretty much the same
Upload speed: identical
Price: Eircom - €109 for 512K = 54.50 for 256K, ESAT 59.90 for 256K (calculating a price performance measure is standard practice when comparing products)

TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber. Or in my original phrase -effectively a duopoly/Cartel.

Any differences are superficial. I wholeheartedly endorse Skeptic's point - Cheap bitstream is the only way we will ever see true competition in the Irish market place.

Regarding the capI agree entirely with your point that a CAP is a fair idea to preserve Quality of Service. It is the level at which it is set that I disagree with. Some weeks ago you proposed 15GB/month as reasonable. I would endorse this and in fact it appears to be something of a norm/mid-point among mainstream international offerings.

MDR

eth0_

my apologies ... sometimes gender escapes me on the boards.

perhaps since we are all agreed that we need to expend our energy more constructively, you would be willing to pen a draft letter to the Minister yourself ?

De Rebel

Originally posted by eth0_
I just think it's completely lame to react to this by starting a thread to bitch about the new Esat product.
Stop being all talk and maybe DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?

I take it from this and your failure to respond to my previous post that you ungraciously concur with me that your 15.36 post was stupid.

I do not believe in vapid rants. The discussion that goes on here is useful and constructive. IOFFL lobbying for change is useful and constructive. Writing letters to Esat may be useful and may even be constructive and if you believe that this is the case I would encourage you to do it. I have my doubts and will therefore save on the postage.

Tazz T

Originally posted by MDR
Lets get off eth0_ case, he has valid point of view and is making it without malice. Its ESAT you are mad at not him, ESAT may or may not impose this cap, what galls me is that have left the option open.

Absolutely. We are all peed off with what Esat has done. Lets not take it out on each other.

eth0_

Originally posted by MDR
eth0_

my apologies ... sometimes gender escapes me on the boards.

perhaps since we are all agreed that we need to expend our energy more constructively, you would be willing to pen a draft letter to the Minister yourself ?

heh I wasn't getting at you for calling me a guy MDR
I don't think it's exactly my place to be drafting letters to ministers, as I am not affiliated with IOFFL. It would also be a bit late for me as I have already ordered DSL from Esat.

And as for de rebel....I didn't reply to your rant because it's a pointless waste of my time and also your lobbying time. The firebombing thing I mentioned was obviouly sarcasm and if you couldn't pick up on that then....

MDR

as I am not affiliated with IOFFL

I just presumed because you were posting to IOFFL boards you were a member ... silly me ...

eth0_

Originally posted by MDR
I just presumed because you were posting to IOFFL boards you were a member ... silly me ...

I wasn't aware I had to be a member of IOFFL to post here.

If that's the case maybe you should get an admin to only allow access to your boards to your members...

Dustaz

Calm down folks, theres obviously going to be differering opinions on every subject and thats just fine. You also dont need to be a member to post here. The forum is an open one because we are and always have been representative of the general public and thier opinions are welcome (as long as they dont piss ppl off ).

Dustaz

Originally posted by De Rebel


Connection charges : pretty much the same
CAP : pretty much the same
Upload speed: identical
Price: Eircom - €109 for 512K = 54.50 for 256K, ESAT 59.90 for 256K (calculating a price performance measure is standard practice when comparing products)

Heres where id disagree. First look at the full offerings
Price - Pretty much the same
Cap - No cap on esat
Upload - Twice the upload (256 compared to 128 with eircom)
Latency - MUCH better with esat.

Now, compare the 256 offer with Eircoms 512. If your going to halve the price and the download speed, then surely everything else needs to be compared from that point of view

Price - Pretty much the same (as per your example)
Cap - By the above logic, the eircom cap in this instance would be 1.5 gig - esat give you 4gb
Upload speed - Again, by the above logic, Eircoms dl speed would be 56k (!!!). Esat provide double that (128k, half of thier business offering)
Latency - One would assume it would be the same as the full price offer, again beating eircom.


I feel actually feel bad for pointing this out because i HATE the idea of this 256 offer, but it still beats eircom on anything they have.

I also think 15gb is a reasonable amount per month, although no doubt there would be arguments here. Interstingly, on the comparison between Ireland and Norway on the ioffl website, the norweigan bargain dsl offer (€40 iirc) features a 1gb cap. So it beats that.

MDR

the norweigan bargain dsl offer (€40 iirc) features a 1gb cap

Glad someone read it ...

you can buy 5gb add on packs that are cheapish

me thinks a 6 gb cap would be appropriate.

gurramok

Heres where id disagree. First look at the full offerings
Price - Pretty much the same
Cap - No cap on esat
Upload - Twice the upload (256 compared to 128 with eircom)
Latency - MUCH better with esat.

Forgive me if i didnt see it but where does it say in esats offering that there is a no cap residential product ?
If there is one like the eircon enhanced with no download cap, what price is it at ?
Is it the 512k/128k at 109 E that was launched a couple months ago , also where is the east product for 256k upload ?

spongebob

Originally posted by gurramok

Is it the 512k/128k at 109 E that was launched a couple months ago , also where is the east product for 256k upload ?

So was I, ESAT have a 512/128 @€;90+VAT

U may mean Elive which is a no cap whitelabel variant of Eircom iscream 512/256 @ €90 a month + vat as well.

M

Dustaz

Originally posted by gurramok
Forgive me if i didnt see it but where does it say in esats offering that there is a no cap residential product ?
If there is one like the eircon enhanced with no download cap, what price is it at ?
Is it the 512k/128k at 109 E that was launched a couple months ago , also where is the east product for 256k upload ?

Esats basic "business" DSL offer is 512/256 with no download cap retailing at €90 ex vat per month.

None of Esats original DSL products had download caps.

I stand by my analogy

DC

variant of Eircom iscream 512/256

Got it a little bit ar$seways there Muck. €ircon is 128Kbps upload, half of Esat. (Though by the looks of this thread that could be written €sat???)

I think I read every post on this thread and I don't think there was a single favourable response to Esat's residential product.

Can I stick my neck out and say that its a step forward? Not all the way forward, but at least its more affordable than the 90+VAT.

And the 4GB cap is better than the 3GB cap from €ircon at nearly half the price.

No mention of contention though. I would not be surprised to see it at 40 or 50:1 contention ratio. (I guess that is part of the reason why not all DSL exchanges have been residential enabled). If it is the case, I think I will stick with business DSL.

The difference between 256 and 512 is fairly substantial and noticeable. Obviously my DSL is 512 download and 256 upload. This allows me to see the difference when for example sending and receiving emails. Enough of a difference to make me think that only 512 can be considered broadband and 256 mid-band.

kamobe

I personally cannot understand this....

They were to release a product, 256k down, for 50/60 Europes. I would have paid them this crazy amount, for a below par product, simply because we're being shat on by every telecoms company in the market. It IS expensive, but affordable. I know i should be getting more for my money, but I actually have €60 a month to pay for this, whereas with the other crazily priced products, I don't.

So what do they do? How can make sure that very few people sign up for it? That's right ladies and gents, toss a ridiculous cap onto it. How many years later now, and we're still not getting what we demand.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by kamobe
They were to release a product, 256k down, for 50/60 Europes. I would have paid them this crazy amount, for a below par product, simply because we're being shat on by every telecoms company in the market. It IS expensive, but affordable. I know i should be getting more for my money, but I actually have �60 a month to pay for this, whereas with the other crazily priced products, I don't.

Ignoring the cap for a moment, I still don't regard this as a serious product (i.e. designed to sell well and make money for the company). a) It is too restrictive for the business market and probably won't be sold to businesses anyway. a) It is too expensive for the residential market. If they made it cheaper they could probably keep the cap and the 256k restriction and it would still sell and make a return (Dustaz will disagree with me on this ).