I have the soluntion to the problem at Liverpool

irishgeo

Having watched the liverpool history DVD and i think we need a player like John Barnes. Thats the one thing liverpool are missing.

I dont know any Barnes like in ther priemership but i am sure houiller does.

What do people think?

milltown

We are totally devoid of any creativity in the midfield and have been for the past two years at least. Ince may have been ManU reject scum but at least he knew when the short ball/back pass was the sensible option, unlike Gerrard always looking for the clever 45 yard pass.
Am off on honeymoon in a week and a half and look forward to coming home in late January to see Liverpool back at the top of the premiership having bought Litmanen back and giving him a regular game as an attacking midfielder alongside Hamann rather than being wasted as an out and out striker/bench warmer.

xlex

O.K. I could give a buck about Liverpool or the premiership but...

Liverpool are one of the more onbe dimensional teams playing in the league... I think Gerrard is looking up every time he gets the ball to see if Owen is in a position to run on to a bal over the top or through... If that doesnt work they're limited... If you stand on Gerrards feet Liverpool have lost a huge player...

spanner_head

Bring back Richie Partridge who is on loan to Coventry at the moment and there is the winger problem solved. He scored an amazing goal last week. Give him a chance! We've got nothing to loose!

Also, expierenced players is a must. As GH just said in his post match interview the average age of players playing against Newcastle today was 23.

Overmars and Kluivert have been touted as coming but apparently there is to be no signings in this transfer window!

LizardKing

Agree totally with the Richie Partridge suggestion , he's on fire at coventry and has played well in most games scored some good goals as well as the one you described where he ran nearly the whole pitch and hit the net with a screamer....

He's helped Gary Mac to get the Manager of the Month for Nationwide division too.....

Houlliers made a lotta mistakes but a lot has to go down to the players , plus the fact that the team are not getting the rub of the green i.e they're unlucky. Players are missing chances and deflected shots etc. are costing the team points.

Back to basics is whats needed - we need Owen and Heskey together quick - get rid of Diouf he's muk - play richie partridge behind the front two so we are back creating chances again...


(thats my tuppence)

BKtje

i think diouf has been playing much better than michael owen.

He's been running around the pitch sticking one hello of a lot more ffort in than owen. Infact during the arsenal game he made himself a lot more chances than Owen did. (least i think it was arsenal).

Owen hasnt impressed me lately and dont even get me started on what i think of that oaf Heskey.

Waylander

I think far too many people are blaming Owen for Liverpools one dimensional tactics. If a team only plays in one way, like Liverpool do, over the top for Owen to run onto, it is easy for other teams to see this and counteract it. I blame Houllier for Owens form. F*ck sake he was losing one nil to Newcastle and took a striker off for a defender. What more do I have to say. I know Diouff was getting hot under the collar but that was not a solution. Richie Partrige will never make at Liverpool as long as Houllier is in charge, and for the same reasons I am glad Duff did not go there during the summer.

Caesar_Bojangle

bring back mcmanaman i say

Praetorian

I think Duff would be good for Liverpool and vice versa...

I follow Man Utd :P

Duff needs to be somewhere that he'll always get his game. Might not happen at United.

Liverpool's football is too predictable ATM.

Id say Houlier is too soft on them aswell (not wanting to have another heard attack at the same time).

Xterminator

I can see why it would be good for liverpool to gewt Duff, but I dont see why it would be a good move for Duff to go to liverpool.

He's still at a learning stage in his carrer.
The facilities are Blackburn are first class. The coaches are first class. The players he is alongside are class players (Cole, Jansen, Dunn, Friedel, Taylor). The team is making good progress , and strengthing each year. The won a domestic tropy last year, and arent far off defending it again this year. Finanacially the club is sound, and can match the wages offered by all but the European Elite, (and their bank balance is a lot better than most of them too!). Duff will get his game when he's fit. He's well settled in at Blackburn who nursed him through the ranks.
I could even mention that Blackburn have won the premiership, and Liverpool have not! (Just a fact).

So wheres the big benift in joining Liverpool?

Also how secure is Houllier's job?
Remember what happened to Robbie Keane at Inter?
A new manager came in, and he was not even given a chance!
If a new manager comes in at 'pool, he may

Duff is right to stay put for another year or two, and when he feels he's done all he can with Rovers, then move on to a club that can offer more.

X

Praetorian

Liverpool are only currently one spot ahead of Blackburn...but usually Liverpool are in the top 5 at least.

Duff would benefit more from playing with a team thats going places. (In recent years)

As soon as Liverpool escape this bad form cloud, they will be back up challenging for Champion's League spots and perhaps even the Premiership trophy. It would be a great experience for Duff to play against decent European opposition.

Also how secure is Houllier's job?

I think he should be reasonably confident.

Remember what happened to Robbie Keane at Inter?
A new manager came in, and he was not even given a chance!

He got his chance in a couple of friendlies and failed to impress.

If a new manager comes in at 'pool, he may

Duff is excellent week in week out (unlike Keane who might be great on one day and below average on another). You would have to be a stupid manager not to see how good he is.

Duff is right to stay put for another year or two, and when he feels he's done all he can with Rovers, then move on to a club that can offer more.

Perhaps.

That would be a better alternative than going to United.

Ohh almost forgot

I could even mention that Blackburn have won the premiership, and Liverpool have not! (Just a fact).

That was the 94/95 season. Ancient history in Football terms :P

Xterminator

Originally posted by Praetorian


Duff would benefit more from playing with a team thats going places. (In recent years)

Thats exactly what he is doing at Rovers.

Originally posted by Praetorian

As soon as Liverpool escape this bad form cloud, they will be back up challenging for Champion's League spots and perhaps even the Premiership trophy. It would be a great experience for Duff to play against decent European opposition.

Agreed, i just dont agree that he will consistantly get it with Liverpool.
Further i dont think Liverpool will be in the Champions League next year.

Originally posted by Praetorian

I think he should be reasonably confident.

Like O'Leary? Like Vialli? C'mon, some fickle fans are calling for his head already. Like Fergie said in there bad patach, your only as good as your last result.

Originally posted by Praetorian

He got his chance in a couple of friendlies and failed to impress.

Robbie never got a fair chance.

Originally posted by Praetorian

Ohh almost forgot
That was the 94/95 season. Ancient history in Football terms :P

I happen to agree.
However, by the same rule, you guys won nothing last year, and are out of Europe, and the title race this year. (Anything before that is just ancient history) So I dont see a big difference between yourselves and the Rovers this season.

Arsenal, and United both had a bad run, but 'Pools current slump in form is beyond a slump. Its a collapase worthy of Englands Cricketers!
I would point out the decline of Leeds (and there financial worries), as an example of direction 'Pool are taking.

X

LizardKing

Quote from Rick Parry LFC Chairman

"In the last 4 years we have consistently improved our league position finishing 4th, then 3rd and then 2nd last season. We just have to make that last step to reach the top. It is clear that in January we must sign somebody."


4th then 3rd the 2nd ..... sounds like improvements to me
the seasons not over yet mathematically we can still catch everyone so keep the faith - it'll come good in the end and if its not the League this year then they'll get something for the Massive Liverpool Trophy Cabinet

Take it

Houllier should be given a chance I don’t think its fair people calling for his head, the team has lost confidence and thats very hard to regain, he has tried different things in the midfield, but WHAT was he thinking of against Newcastle he fielded the worst midfield in the premiership biscan, chyrou (or however its spelt) and diao are nothing but average players that would struggle to make it into a first division squad!!


We wont win the league we probably wont make the champions league but liverpool will be back next year with a stonger challange (i think ive said that for the last 7 season!!!!)

WE NEED DUFF!!!!!

jonno

I agree we could do with Duff or any player that can make play as weel as him. Alot of people say that we should bring back Partridge. I agree but I think it should wait till later. The first division is a good training ground for him but it aint top class footie. Give him more time to develop. Also bringing him back now or even buying Duff with so much pressure on the team could run any player. They would be seen as the saviour and that kinda pressure is defiantely unwanted for players so young and I hesiatate to say inexperienced.

I say get an experienced creative midfielder like Overmars and bring one of teh lads in at the end of the season.

mike65

Originally posted by LizardKing
Quote from Rick Parry LFC Chairman

We just have to make that last step to reach the top. It is clear that in January we must sign somebody."

Thats an interesting difference with his "employee" Gerard Houllier
then. Speaking of whom, yesterday I read the "put up or shut up" warning to his players, then today he accused players of not pulling thier weight. Oh and there was the admission the title is pretty much out of reach....its all looking terminal.

Mike.

Praetorian

However, by the same rule, you guys won nothing last year, and are out of Europe, and the title race this year

Your points have been unambiguous up until this one. It seems you are saying United are out of the title race this year? That is preposterous...

Guinness is killing more brain cells than usual (i only had 4 pints ffs and now some Rum). God Xmen is a great film. Thank god for Sky Movies.

It’s all relative. It’s been 8-9 years since the 94/95 Blackburn accomplishment. United won something recently! (In football terms). Ok so “ancient history” was a slight exaggeration. Very few (if any) of the 94/95 Blackburn squad still play for the team today. That’s what I would consider a good while ago or “ancient history”.

jonno

I think this spell is putting alot of pressure on Houllier. I think the man is an alright manager but FFS he has to change his tactics.

Here's a snippet from an interview with him yesterday from www.liverpoolfc.tv

Question:

It's Manchester City this weekend - a team and a manager renowned for playing exciting football. What do you make of the game?

Answer:

I hope you're not saying we don't play exciting football. I'm looking forward to it. Both teams have good strikers and are in good teams who will be eager to do well in this competition.

Now there is a man is a world of his own.

BKtje

that disturbs me, even charlton ( i hope ne way ) knew that the football he played wasn't very exciting.

If he meant it then liverpool have a bigger problem than i thought. (at least from an excitement point of view and in hope of it changing etc )

Makaveli

Originally posted by Xterminator
and are out of Europe

Out of the CL yes, out of Europe no.

houllier is making the same mistake wenger almost made.
he buys unproven players and tries to make stars out of them.
worked with some at arsenal, (petit, vieira, anelka) and indeed a few at the pool (hyppia), but it can only work for so many players and to be honest houllier absolutely flooded the club with sh*t players(smicer, traore, diouf, diao) and ditched the great players on the squad (fowler, litmanen)

Space Coyote

Totally agree Tipp_Gunner.
Practically every signing GH has made was bought as a squad player to do a job, not to improve the class of the team, apart from Hyppia and a debatable few others.
When I heard we were signing Litmanen I was delighted, when I heard we were signing Anelka on loan I was ecstatic...
and what does GH do, he f*cks it all up.
He has done all he can as manager, time to move on Monsieur.

jonno

The players he has dont get a chance to gell together. The quality of the squad isnt brilliant but he has to put a regular team together (with wide midfielders).

Then if he played them all the time it'd improve consistancy and maybe make some of those players he bought be able to concentrate and improve on their position on the field. Rather than them wondering where they will be playing in the next match.

IMO thats why Hyppia came good. Remember the year we had the best defense in the premiership (2 seasons ago I think), well Hyppia and Henchoz were the two main central defenders. they got used to each other and learned how to play as a unit. That takes alot of pressure of the keeper.
Whay cant Houllier do the same with the midfield. The players are there to make a decent team.

It comes down to very basic managerial skills. I have faith in Houllier bringing the pool out of this patch but he'll have to bring in new faces in the summer too

It is however in the long term better to buy cheap continental players rather then spend absolutely loads on overrated players as a quest for instant success, like man united and lazio do. that way i couldnt fault houllier. i think even at their best they have no depth in their play. too much long balls. it is a possibility that some of liverpools new signings need time to adjust to the pace of the english game and as another problem regognised, houllier rotates his squad far too often as i will agree wenger does and sir fat-Cu*t. liverpool do need width and i think partridge should at least be given a chance to prove himself rather than spend money on damien duff.

darthmise

Originally posted by Praetorian


Duff needs to be somewhere that he'll always get his game. Might not happen at United.

Liverpool's football is too predictable ATM.

I'd rather have Harry Kewell over Duff. ( Utd Fan)
I know its been said to death about the pool, but they do need wingers. I watched some of the villa game, and they COULD NOT get in behind them.
Diouf was the only player who managed it, he plays well when hes out wide. Hopeless up front tho'.

If they could get someone for the left, maybe even leave riise out there, and play the same 11 for a run of games then maybe something positive could happen for them.
They have gone as far as they can with houllier.

darthmise

Originally posted by tipp_Gunner
It is however in the long term better to buy cheap continental players rather then spend absolutely loads on overrated players as a quest for instant success, like man united and lazio do. that way i couldnt fault houllier.

Diouf cost 10 million squids!!
Hes worth 4.. tops.

LizardKing

Dioufs Agent must be laughin all the way to the bank , cos he was nothing before world cup and his performances were hyped totally out of proportion. He's not to blame alone for Liverpools bad run. Its a team game and theres more than one problem at the moment - Also more than one answer to the problems. I don't think there's any magic step that will make it better and make the bad run go away.

It will require a mix of ... (IMO)
- raising team morale
- playing better football as a unit
- getting strikers the chances they thrive on
- strikers taking more of the chances they are getting.
- bringing in 1 or 2 players who can help create chances
- sticking to a set team for a few games to give them more of a chance to gel and work off each other better...
- start playing "passing football" again instead of the "knock it over the top" crap


They're still in a few cups and can still get champions league next season so its not all doom and gloom... :rolleyes:

darthmise

Originally posted by LizardKing
Dioufs Agent must be laughin all the way to the bank , cos he was nothing before world cup and his performances were hyped totally out of proportion.

He was african player of the year going to the world cup. And Pool had him pretty much signed before the world cup began.

LizardKing

Originally posted by darthmise
He was african player of the year going to the world cup. And Pool had him pretty much signed before the world cup began.

Yeah but he has not shown in any way to be worth 10 million. I'm starting to think that African Player of the year does not mean too much ( Mustapha Hadji won it too )

LizardKing

Someone elses opinions on stopping the rot ....
Opinion on what needs to be done...

Space Coyote

African player of the year doesn't mean jack. Apart from George Weah, who was a legend, what other African player has ever done anything worth talking about ?

I remember Diouf saying that he wanted to become the best player in the world.
He's only 21, but unless he's playing in a team that passes the ball along the ground, attacks with conviction and believes in their ability, there's no way he's going to improve at Liverpool.

God help Le Tallec and Sinima-Pongolle when they join us in the summer. It could be a disaster for them.

YNWA, we can only get better!

Originally posted by darthmise


Diouf cost 10 million squids!!
Hes worth 4.. tops.

but thats the way football goes. 10million is the price of even your average player now, or even 28million for Veron.

hey Pires was not great his first year in english football and he has established himself as one of the greats.

houllier will have to establish a first eleven in order to settle the team, and go on from there.

frankly why john arne riise was dropped for that useless traore god only knows.

anyway thats beside the point, the fact is houllier assembled a whole squad for nearly the same price ferguson paid for three overated players.

1 awkward defender, 1 lazy midfielder and 1 diving b*stard of a striker, goals or no goals.

Waylander

Good to see you can be objective with your judgement Tipp.

1 awkward defender, 1 lazy midfielder and 1 diving b*stard of a striker, goals or no goals.

By the way how many players has Ashley Cole had sent off this season, and what about Franny Jeffers tripping over his shoe lace for the Arsenal, and he doesn't even get goals. As for the other two i am more then happy with the signings. I think Veron has had as good a run lately as any player in the premiership, and I am confident that Ferdinand will be as good as he is expected to be. Finally United spent £77m on those three player, while Mr Houllier has spent over £100m in four years so a difference of £23m may be considered a nominal difference to you but I would consider it fairly substantial.

jonno

I think the point that was trying to be made is that Houllier has brought together a squad of players for over £100 million and as yet has not succeeded in making a team out of them. It's like he thinks every match is a training match, swapping and experimenting players in different positions. That sorta stuff should be done at Melwood and so when the squad turns up at a game they know what they have to do and what position they have to do it in.

Speaking of training Ian 'Toshie' Rush has signed to return to Melwood as a part time assistant coach. Hel work mainly with the strikers. Imagine if some of what he had could rub off on the young strikers there.

Whether Arsenal have players that aren't honest is not the point. Although while Im on the subject damn you Jeffers:mad:

Originally posted by Waylander
Good to see you can be objective with your judgement Tipp.

By the way how many players has Ashley Cole had sent off this season, and what about Franny Jeffers tripping over his shoe lace for the Arsenal, and he doesn't even get goals. As for the other two i am more then happy with the signings. I think Veron has had as good a run lately as any player in the premiership, and I am confident that Ferdinand will be as good as he is expected to be. Finally United spent £77m on those three player, while Mr Houllier has spent over £100m in four years so a difference of £23m may be considered a nominal difference to you but I would consider it fairly substantial.

True Cole and Jeffers need to cop themselves on, arsenal never were a club for cheats but a club to be cheated.
but on the subject of him not scoring goals he never gets the chance in fairness with bergkamp and henry up front, and he was prolific with Everton bar the injuries he used suffer. hey at least he has a championship medal to his name. van the man may have to wait a bit.

peeve

Point has been made in other threads i know, but in houillers defence, he's not the only manager to have spent a lot of money assembling a fairly average squad....dave o'leary ring any bells anyone? :rolleyes: at least houiller has something to show(even if they are plastic cups(uefa / worthington etc)

(Btw i'm not defending houillers purchases)

I think we rode our luck in 2000 when we won those trophies - everything seemed to go our way - now anything that can go wrong is going wrong! isnt that murphys law?

smackbunnybaby

Originally posted by peeve
Point has been made in other threads i know, but in houillers defence, he's not the only manager to have spent a lot of money assembling a fairly average squad....dave o'leary ring any bells anyone? :rolleyes:

o leary got the sack for not delivering with the money he spent.houllier may have won stuff but thats in the past,the present is what matters.sack houllier