FF to stand in North Elections??

kamobe

An internal debate is taking place within Fianna Fáil that could lead to the party contesting elections in Northern Ireland following the elections due in May for control of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

That would be a VERY interesting development...

Found on Ireland.com. Unfortunately I don't have an account so I can't read the full article...

Chaos-Engine

Why not?

But it is alittle late.
They should have perhaps stood up north pre-good friday agreement....
Now that we don't lay clame to the north in or Constitution it would seem alittle rash.

FF can't claim to be a republican party unless it does stand up north...

I think it would be excellent. They would actually lose votes down south because of it
I sit here and hope they will

yellum

I could have sworn they mentioned this about 12 months back too. Definetly before the General Election anyway. All the parties should consider this.

Get the people up North used to the Southern Parties. Down the road anyway this country will be a 32 county republic again so they might as well start building the foundations for people.

Why stop there though ? They should seriously consider having people go up for election in European cities where there are large numbers of Irish people / people of Irish Ancestry.

And then theres the USA ....

Victor

Originally posted by yellum
I could have sworn they mentioned this about 12 months back too. Definetly before the General Election anyway.

I think this was in the context of "should the SDLP tie up with a southern party", with various reasons to go for FF, FG or Labour.

mike65

While I have little time for the ppl of Norn Iron, I really don't think they deserve Fianna Fail!

Mike.

gandalf

LOL and the unionists are whinging about the Sinners wait until they get a load of this pack of crooks in action.

Gandalf.

Cork

I think that FF should set up in the North. I think FF is very well regarded up there. I think that the firstpast the post electoral system will not help them.

I think that FF will be a threat to SF there. I think it is about time that Irish policitical partys began to look at issues on a 32 county basis and began to take SF on.

Originally posted by Cork
I think that FF should set up in the North. I think FF is very well regarded up there. I think that the firstpast the post electoral system will not help them.

I think that FF will be a threat to SF there. I think it is about time that Irish policitical partys began to look at issues on a 32 county basis and began to take SF on.

I'll make three predictions:
1. Fianna Fáil will not stand in NI Westminister elections .
2. If they set up in the North, they will stand in local and assembly elections, where proportional representation is used.

And the big one
3. Fianna Fáil when faced with a united Ireland or possibly before, (and subject to the ongo-ing "distance-ing" of Sinn Féin from the IRA) will open merger talks with Sinn Féin.
mm

Victor

Originally posted by Man
I'll make three predictions:
1. Fianna Fáil will not stand in NI Westminister elections

LOL, the thought of it.

Of course, the only risk of most FF "people" going to Westminister would be to accept the 'English' surrender.

rien_du_tout

Originally posted by Man

3. Fianna Fáil when faced with a united Ireland or possibly before, (and subject to the ongo-ing "distance-ing" of Sinn Féin from the IRA) will open merger talks with Sinn Féin.
mm

OMG nooooooooo....... wait......... some ppl probably think I mean oh god, not sinn féin, those non democrats.....hmmmm........ FFF, could be a nice little hate group.*not serious!* I honestly cant see this happening as the gap between them seems massive in every respect. FF claim to be a republican party, and yet only stand in 26 counties........ musta been were dave got his 26 county republicanism! but seriously It would be so bad. If/when ireland is reunited I'd hope that SDLP would join with labour, or is that too obvious as not to happen? and that FF wouldnt be in government with holiday breaks here and there as they have so far in the history of this state......... seems like there'll always be a political party calling itself Sinn Féin

seán

Cork

And the big one
3. Fianna Fáil when faced with a united Ireland or possibly before, (and subject to the ongo-ing "distance-ing" of Sinn Féin from the IRA) will open merger talks with Sinn Féin.

I don't think so. Bertie made his stance towards SF very clear. I had a little chat with a SF person beforeChristmas - they still favour the nationisation of banks.

If/when ireland is reunited I'd hope that SDLP would join with labour, or is that too obvious as not to happen?

I think that when the country is united. I think politics on the island will be transformed. It is too early to think of possible alliences.

I think a FG/Labour merger should happen in 2003 - but for future alliences - heavan knows.

It's not beyond the realms of possibilty, you know that Sinn Féin and FF might merge in the next 30 years or so.
Sinn Féin after the conflict have no serious possibility of entering government here whilst proposing nationalising the Banks.
I suspect policies like that hark back, the days when there were ties between Republicanism and the *cough* soviet union.
Indeed, who would have predicted that Pat Rabbitte would lead the labour party, 10 or 15 years ago? or that it would have merged with a party who in a previous republican mode would have had many of the "Economic" policies that Sinn Féin still have today.

20 or 30 years of peace and prosperity would be plenty of time for Sinn Féin to adopt more realistic vote getting policies,particularily when people are looking at policies by then other than strictly "republican" mantra.
My prediction is not as crazy as it may seem, a week , is a long time but in 30 years lots of political evolution might happen.

And Cork when you say:

I don't think so. Bertie made his stance towards SF very clear.

Whatever Bertie may say publically on Coalition with Sinn Féin now, this has no bearing on what the position might be in 20 or 30 years assuming all goes well and Sinn Féin either have completly distanced themselves from the IRA or better still the latter doesn't exist anymore.
mm

sceptre

Originally posted by rien_du_tout
If/when ireland is reunited I'd hope that SDLP would join with labour, or is that too obvious as not to happen?

Obvious, yes. Probably would make more sense than courting FF too. Worth keeping in mind though that the only reason the "L" in SDLP stands for "Labour" is that Gerry Fitt said he wouldn't join unless the party name included the word. Long time ago, admittedly, hopefully the SDLP, being nice moderates and all, don't campaign in a vacuum.

rien_du_tout

Originally posted by Cork
I don't think so. Bertie made his stance towards SF very clear. I had a little chat with a SF person beforeChristmas - they still favour the nationisation of banks.

I think that there is space for Sinn Féin as a radical left wing party as economics is not a viable ideology, which the FF seem to be worshipping. What draws me to Sinn Féin is its mix of republicanism and socialism and I think that a united ireland would have an affect on those voting for the romantic notion of a united ireland. So whart I would like to ask OT is what's so wrong with nationalising the banks? The number of left wing td's in the dáil seems to be pretty big. All smaller scale parties........ with growth from all of these I would love to see a socialist government of labour + others....oh ya

seán

sceptre

Originally posted by rien_du_tout
I think that there is space for Sinn Féin as a radical left wing party as economics is not a viable ideology, which the FF seem to be worshipping.

Economics is fine as an ideology.

Monetarism isn't.

FF are currently worshipping at the Friedman church, which swears that the fallout from Francois Quesnay's (father of laissez-faire-ism) economic policies in France, the UKand (yes, even) Ireland never happened.

Originally posted by rien_du_tout
So whart I would like to ask OT is what's so wrong with nationalising the banks? The number of left wing td's in the dáil seems to be pretty big. All smaller scale parties........ with growth from all of these I would love to see a socialist government of labour + others....oh ya

seán

Whats wrong is it would never work in a modern, small open economy, like Ireland, money would just flow of Ireland out for lack of confidence, resulting in a severe recession, due to peoples lack of spending power.
You would have one state institution with no competition responsible for borrowing and savings which is not on, in this day and age.
Thats why I kind of predicted that Sinn Féin would have to modernise it's manifesto in a post unification Ireland.
Otherwise, when the dust settles most people will look at reasons other than Republicanism when choosing who to vote for.
And Borderline communist beliefs will not be vote winners.
Labour party philosophy might be.
Joe Higgins is a fine politician and a great orator, but even his constituency only returns one borderline communist T.D
Mainly because that has a limited vote.

It's probably deserving of another thread , but Fianna Fáil is still calling itself "The Republican party" as to it's mind theres a job undone , ie a united Ireland. I don't see it ever standing in Northern elections which aren't proportional representation because to do so would split the green vote.
But in the event of a united Ireland,Republican voters who don't want a socialist government will have to look elsewhere, something unheard of currently obviously.
I just tend to think that, a slightly more conservative Sinn Féin in a post United Ireland situation could for survival end up looking to Fianna Fáil for a merger.
Remember in that scenario, you could have a lot of working class Unionists in the opposite but similar situation , who might vote labour, but certainly not Sinn Féin.
In that Scenario , a very tight struggle for the "socialist" vote, would be problematic for Sinn Féin as there are only so many seats in the various institutions to go around.

now as my hair is dripping, having just left the shower, I'm at risk of eltrocution here, so, happy new year all, I'm off to the pub again...
mm

Cork

I think that in a post United Ireland sinario - we will need inclusive partys.

I think that FF may decide to cease - I think we would be better off with having 2 big partys. But I think that we will need to keep PR or some form of PR.

I also fell - our County and Town Councils should be replaced with 4 provential federal authoritys.

rien_du_tout

Originally posted by Cork
I also fell - our County and Town Councils should be replaced with 4 provential federal authoritys.

ahhhhhh...... christ. The problem is I cant base an arguement here on facts but more on gut instinct. I think it would place the solution makers too far away from the problem...... that's the best I can do really. I'll give it more thought..... There must be some reason why I wouldnt like that!! help??

seán

aine

Personally I think it's one of the worst ideas I've heard regarding FF in a long time! why on earth would they do a thing like that? we voted to amend our constitution so that we had no claim over the 6 counties!! hence FF would have no mandate either from its party memebers in the south nor the electorate in general who re-elected them!

As to becoming a 32 county Ireland? dont bank on that one! firstly we couldnt possibly foot the bill for security costs in the north! plus dont assume that such a proposal would be welcomed by all people in the north that would be of the nationalist persuasion! services in Britain and hence in Northern Ireland are better than what they are here!

If anything I think that parties such as the SDLP should stand in the south!

oh and a sinn fein/ff merger?? such a thing is sooooooooo far in the future its hardly worth mentioning! it would be political suicide for FF! and they could hardly be taken seriously at any further peace talks, I mean they are obviously biased but Jaysus merging with Sinn Fein??

aine

I also fell - our County and Town Councils should be replaced with 4 provential federal authoritys.

I wouldnt necessarily agree with that! I just think that the lower levels of government in this country need more depth!

Local Government is a joke and has been almost since it was established in its current form by the British in 1898 and the regional authorities were basically created to maximise EU funding!

I think it would place the solution makers too far away from the problem

In a sense I believe thats true, rather than eradicating the town/city/county councils the lower tiers of subnational government need to have additional responsibilities designated to them which would give them an actual purpose while at the same time solving local problems locally!

Victor

Further story:

FF too busy to contest north elections - Kenny
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 21st January, 2003

Fianna Fail has so much on its plate that it does not have time to contest elections in Northern Ireland, the Fine Gael leader Mr Enda Kenny said today.

As he took part in a series of meetings in Stormont with Northern Ireland politicians, Mr Kenny dismissed speculation that Fianna Fail may enter the political fray north of border or merge with the nationalist SDLP.

He said: "SDLP leader Mark Durkan referred during a meeting we held last night to an Eamonn de Valera cumann (branch of Fianna Fail supporters) which had been formed in his constituency but that is really about the greater picture of all-Ireland unity in its broadest sense.

"We made the point to him that Fine Gael has the youngest age structure of any party in the Dail now and there is an energy and willingness to involve ourselves in the Northern Ireland process for the benefit of everybody, taking into account people's consent and understanding.

"The conclusion of that discussion was that if Fianna Fail were to run candidates in Northern Ireland it would further shred the nationalist vote.

"However, I think Fianna Fail have probably enough on their plate dealing with Fine Gael in the south, never mind trying to take over the entire country."

Speculation that Fianna Fail may organise on a 32-county basis has refused to go away despite SDLP suggestions that the party could shred the nationalist vote if it contests elections.

Northern Ireland Policing Board member and SDLP activist Mr Tom Kelly argued in The Observer last weekend that Fianna Fail would be the natural home for his party in the event of a political realignment throughout Ireland.

The Fine Gael delegation of five TDs and three Senators today met Ulster Unionist leader Mr David Trimble, Sinn Fein vice president Mr Pat Doherty and Northern Ireland Secretary Mr Paul Murphy at Stormont.

Their discussions focused on efforts to revive devolution.