Eircom and splitting lines

STaN

I suppose it prevents DSL on either line?

Is pair gain illegal? And can you request another physical line if you want?

Vuk

Aye, STaN, I believe you will fail the line test on a split line and therefore no DSL


Also, I currently have DSL from EsatBT, are there any protections in place to ensure that Eircon doesn't ever split my line ?

phaxx

Just a thought - since I'm right opposite the exchange, and there are errorcom engineers and their vans outside the and around the street all the time, should I just ask one of them what can be done? Should I offer to give yer man 20 quid if he'll put me back to a normal line?

Dempsey

Speaking off the devil, today I was connecting at 48.0kbps, at around 12:30, grand. Around 14:00 I tried to connect again and I connect at 19.2kbps, after disconnecting and connecting a dozen time the max I can get is 24kbps.

During dial up the noises are slightly different to the normal. It almost sounds like its dialling again or something. This has happened before but goes away when I disconnect and reconnect. Is it a sign that eircom have split my line?

Mossy Monk

if i was to change from Eircom to Esat would Eircom have to unsplit my line

SkepticOne

Originally posted by STaN
I suppose it prevents DSL on either line?

Yes. In addition to slowing down your dial up speed to 1980s levels, pair gain systems make DSL and indeed ISDN impossible. Only thing is, if you want you can order ISDN and if Eircom decide to fulfill your order, they will remove the pair gain. Same is not true for ADSL. You have no way of upgrading to a non-pair gained line if you want ADSL. Some people have suggested that one way might be to upgrade to ISDN and then downgrade back to PSTN in the hope that you will be left with a non pair gained line. You have no guarantees, however, that either a) you won't be put back on the pair gain or b) that the non-pair gained line will be suitable for ADSL. This is a very risky and expensive approach.

Is pair gain illegal? And can you request another physical line if you want?

At present, no. As highlight said, if you are concerned, then you need to respond to the USO consultation document: http://www.odtr.ie/docs/ComReg02116.doc. Closing date is 11th February 2003.

zynaps

What if you already had DSL?
If it was no longer functional due to eircom installing a pairgain, what could you do? (except go after them with a pipe?)

zynaps

Dempsey

Look for compensation for loss of service, say that u needed it for work and important files couldnt be sent and you lost out on 1 million euros?

Lemming

Originally posted by zynaps
What if you already had DSL?
If it was no longer functional due to eircom installing a pairgain, what could you do? (except go after them with a pipe?)

zynaps

They'll also have broken the 12 month contract which they make YOU sign.

So by all means, beat them to death with their own material.

Kevok

I'd check the T&C's first. I'd bet they've already covered there asses on that possibility.

Dempsey

My connection was back to "normal" Sunday, 48Kbps. Still gave €ircon a earful:D . But I use to be at 52Kbps and then I messed with the Qos thingy and my speed went down to the present. Can anyone explain this one?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dempseyt
My connection was back to "normal" Sunday, 48Kbps. Still gave €ircon a earful:D . But I use to be at 52Kbps and then I messed with the Qos thingy and my speed went down to the present. Can anyone explain this one?

Imagine if you still had to pay them the remainder of the 12 month contract even though the line was not up to carrying it.

That would blow.

Lemming

Well, I just rang eircon over my line.

I had 3 issues to deal with (two of them related to the first)

1. Has a Pair Gain been installed somewhere on my line since Dec 2002.

"No". And they confirmed this. I'd like to get my local engineers number and see what he says.....

2. Connection speeds are now brutally inconsistent.

3. My connection has become DIRELY unstable, even when returning to prior connection speeds of 44 - 49.3 kbps, eg. I dial in, connect, am still getting a carrier signal yet get 100% packet loss incoming after , say 5 seconds - although this number is arbitrary and completely random.

Having checked the latest bill, there are a score of dial-up's lasting approx. 5 seconds in January.

Now, after the conversation with, what sounded like the male equivalent of the old TE biddy (scary though, eh?), he turned around and said that eircon was only obliged to provide voice telephony. When I informed him that they were obliged under regulation from the former ODTR to provide data telephony upto a certain level he didn't want to know and insisted that he was right. It's a pity I couldn't find the relevant document to quote "ad verbatim" to him.


GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :mad:

Dempsey

After giving €ircon last saturday (via email), A techinan or engineer arrived at my house but I was at College. The mother sent him away not knowing that I had complained, "There is nothing wrong with our phone line". I wonder how confusing this was for him and Eircom!!

STaN

Originally posted by dempseyt
After giving €ircon last saturday (via email), A techinan or engineer arrived at my house but I was at College. The mother sent him away not knowing that I had complained, "There is nothing wrong with our phone line". I wonder how confusing this was for him and Eircom!!

tell the folks if u have anything like that going on,.,,, i missed my ISDN installation 3 times cause the folks thought he was installing it and charging them for something they didnt need

eth0_

Originally posted by Lemming
When I informed him that they were obliged under regulation from the former ODTR to provide data telephony upto a certain level he didn't want to know and insisted that he was right.

Yeah, obliged to provide 9,600 kbps. Never EVER mention the word 'internet' to Eircom in situations like these!

spongebob

2400 , not 9600

sceptre

Originally posted by Kevok
I'd check the T&C's first. I'd bet they've already covered there asses on that possibility.

I suspect that they might be guilty of frustrating the contract (I think that's the legal term - it's ten years since I did any contract law) and you would probably be entitled to something back, regardless of the T&C. Dave Staunton as our local legal expert would probably be the person who would know.

Like the lads say, never ever mention the internet to Eircom when complaining. Tell them the line is crackly, you can't send faxes, there might be water on the line - anything but the Internet. They don't want to know and unfortunately the terms of their Universal Service Obligation put them in the right.

spongebob

Originally posted by sceptre
Like the lads say, never ever mention the internet to Eircom when complaining. Tell them the line is crackly, you can't send faxes, there might be water on the line - anything but the Internet.

When you dial 1901 and press 2 for repairs that above is the golden rule. The funny thing is that Biddy in repairs has been using the exact same excuse since at least 1994 ...probably earlier but I distinctly remember this crap in 1994.

The USO came out in 1999 and really only meant that you could complain about persistent disconnects.......once you swore blind to Biddy you had your modem throttled back to 2400.....

M

Lemming

Originally posted by Muck
When you dial 1901 and press 2 for repairs that above is the golden rule. The funny thing is that Biddy in repairs has been using the exact same excuse since at least 1994 ...probably earlier but I distinctly remember this crap in 1994.

The USO came out in 1999 and really only meant that you could complain about persistent disconnects.......once you swore blind to Biddy you had your modem throttled back to 2400.....

M

The point I tried to make with the middy (male-biddy equivalent) was that eircom is obliged to provide "data transmission", not intermittent data transmission (speed aside on this point. I'm dealing with the stability of the connection).

Anyway the entire episode has made me resolved to move 1800+ euro's a year worth of revenue off them and go w/ ibb or the like. I'd dearly love to stay with utv/dna since they've been good to me over the years, but enough is enough with that f*cking rodent.

spongebob

Originally posted by Lemming
eircom is obliged to provide "data transmission", not intermittent data transmission (speed aside on this point. I'm dealing with the stability of the connection).

You are 100% correct

In order to get them to do anything for you , you must maintain that you are NOT attempting to MAINTAIN a speed higher that 2400bps. (2.4k in dempseyt_speak) A crap line with water ingress or with short circuiting somewhere will not be able to maintain 2400.

In extremis, you must demonstrate the instability to the linesman (person) with the serial port for your modem on your PC set to 2400 and not 57600 or 115200 as usual.

They are obliged to fix that according to the USO .

M

Lemming

Originally posted by Muck
You are 100% correct

In order to get them to do anything for you , you must maintain that you are NOT attempting to MAINTAIN a speed higher that 2400kbps. A crap line with water ingress or with short circuiting somewhere will not be able to maintain 2400.

In extremis, you must demonstrate the instability to the linesman (person) with the serial port for your modem on your PC set to 2400 and not 57600 or 115200 as usual.

They are obliged to fix that according to the USO .

M

Hmmm .. I may delay my ibb exodus slightly (excuse my language but I am still stewing after that phone call yesterday) in order to shove the USO re:data transmissions up afore-mentioned "middy's" proverbial arse. My only regret is not being able to personally and physically shove it where the sun don't shine in front of his entire department.


Cheers for that Muck

Dempsey

Err, I hate to get technical for no reason but yee do mean 2400bps not 2400kbps?