Young Scientist ot Year - ya wha ?

naitkris

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Some might say that he probably wants to keep the details of his invention secret, but surely that goes against the spirit of what is supposed to be a science competion. Other entrants did seem to have projects with actual results that they made public.

cannot be said better or more to the point. I don't think he deserves the award if he is not going to show the "science" or "technology" behind it. it doesn't justify to give him an award, plain and simple.

I just saw the RTE show at 16:10 and it has nothing about his project other than him lifting up this trophy. It's funny though as if it is taken from open source or other applications as someone suggested, he will definitley be found out about in May at the European Young Scientist (I'm sure the judging level has to be at the highest level) and then he can come back to Ireland, give back the trophy and the 3000 Euro and disgrace himself and the Esat BT Young Scientist competition. Funny thing is, I don't think he's Irish and he's representing Ireland in the European part of the competition - I think I read both his parents are from Saudi Arabia and he is born there as well, it's just that he has been in Ireland for most of his academic life.

cherrio

I just wasted half an hour of my life watching that show, showed nothing, about him or his project.

Some one said it was 1.5 million lines long, I am a programmer myself and that is massive, the amount of RAM you would need to run that program is ridiculous.

naitkris

Originally posted by cherrio
Some one said it was 1.5 million lines long, I am a programmer myself and that is massive, the amount of RAM you would need to run that program is ridiculous.

actually I mentioned this earlier - he said this himself that it is 1.5 million lines done over 2 years and that is what is written in yesterday's Irish Times. I'm also a programmer and if it is true (which I seriously doubt) then the guy is either a) God or b) something close to God. I mean to start something that big at 14 years of age... means the guys writing more than 2000 lines of code every day while at the same time going to school (Leaving Certificate years too!).

zynaps

Maybe they're all comments
Anyway, there is no reason to assume the more lines of code there are, the 'better' the program will be.
In fact, if anything, it would probably be the converse, as I'm sure you'll know

Did he claim to have written these 1.5m lines himself, or were they just 'in the program'?
Perhaps this is the open source stuff being thrown in...

At least he skinned it though, it sounds like at the least, he's a competent enough coder...

cherrio

I suppose we should not critize him too much, seeing he is not here to defend himself. Lets just leave it at, something smells fishy....

eth0_

Originally posted by naitkris
Funny thing is, I don't think he's Irish and he's representing Ireland in the European part of the competition - I think I read both his parents are from Saudi Arabia and he is born there as well, it's just that he has been in Ireland for most of his academic life.

What's funny about it? That comment is tinged with racism. Who cares if he wasn't born here. Does that mean he's not entitled to represent Ireland in something? The competition is for kids at Irish second level schools.

He sounds like a sheister but where he was born does NOT come into this at all, naitris.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by naitkris
It's funny though as if it is taken from open source or other applications as someone suggested, he will definitley be found out about in May at the European Young Scientist (I'm sure the judging level has to be at the highest level) and then he can come back to Ireland, give back the trophy and the 3000 Euro and disgrace himself and the Esat BT Young Scientist competition.

I don't think he should give the 3,000 back. He won fair and square according to the rules. I might have been a bit unfair implying that he was keeping the details of any possible innovation secret. It could be that he was quite open about how he did it. Similarly, with regard to using pre-existing code and components - not a problem necessarily.

The problem for me is that no attempt seems to have been made to communicate the nature of his entry to the outside world. This would not be his fault. All he is required to do is put up papers outlining his work on display.

If he achieved a 400% speed-up on some aspect of browser performance (and this is what the media is saying), does none of the media feel curious about how this might have been achieved or what aspect of performance had been sped up?

seamus

It's strange enough his whole shadowyness of it. He says he wants to start his own software company, so maybe he wants to use this as a launchpad.

Personally, I would have released it open source, regardless of how innovative it is. Maybe his idea of creating new software is cannibalising old stuff......the media was calling him 'the next Bill Gates'. Maybe they were more correct than they think

Aside from this, anything he 'borrowed' under the GPL would have to be declared, so either he's being sneaky and hoping no-one will find out, or he really did code most of it himself.

Either way, I'd be intrigued if someone went up and asked him in the RDS........

naitkris

Originally posted by eth0_
What's funny about it? That comment is tinged with racism. Who cares if he wasn't born here. Does that mean he's not entitled to represent Ireland in something? The competition is for kids at Irish second level schools.

He sounds like a sheister but where he was born does NOT come into this at all, naitris.

i am sorry i made you think it was racist - English is not my first language and i am not Irish myself (but Swedish) which should back up this. it's just that to represent a country abroad at such a prestigious event as the European Young Scientists, I (maybe nobody else agrees with me perhaps) "assumed" that the person representing that country is from that country, like an ambassador, diplomat etc. it has nothing to do where he is originally from, just that it's not Ireland. I have also lived briefly in Saudi Arabia if you think I am being racist. Furthermore I don't think I said anything negative regarding Saudi Arabia or where he is from - correct me if I am wrong here.

If I won the Young Scientists here in Ireland, I personally would not wish to represent Ireland as it is not where I am from* but would instead ask for the runner-up to be choosen - though that's just me and I think it's great otherwise for Ireland to have a bit more multicultural-background citizens representing Ireland abroad. I think it is fantastic how far Samantha Mumba for example has come. I hope this clear up things a little. Some people both write things on forums like boards.ie meaning something else AND others read things and think it is something that it is not.

* I am technically half-Irish by birth but my nationality is Swedish.

longword

Originally posted by naitkris
actually I mentioned this earlier - he said this himself that it is 1.5 million lines done over 2 years and that is what is written in yesterday's Irish Times.

For comparison, the 2.2.0 Linux kernel has 1.6 million lines of source code.

eth0_

Originally posted by naitkris

If I won the Young Scientists here in Ireland, I personally would not wish to represent Ireland as it is not where I am from* but would instead ask for the runner-up to be choosen

Well you can't do that ...take the €3000 and say 'I'm not representing this country in Europe". If you don't want to represent Ireland in the European Young Scientists exhibition, then you don't enter the Irish competition, simple as that.

[/quote]
I think it is fantastic how far Samantha Mumba for example has come.[/QUOTE]

Well....she *is* Irish by birth.

naitkris

Originally posted by eth0_
Well you can't do that ...take the €3000 and say 'I'm not representing this country in Europe". If you don't want to represent Ireland in the European Young Scientists exhibition, then you don't enter the Irish competition, simple as that.

I think it is fantastic how far Samantha Mumba for example has come.[/QUOTE]

Well....she *is* Irish by birth. [/QUOTE]

that's true it would be rude wouldn't it - i see your point. the Samantha Mumba thing was used to prove my point that i'm not a racist as i was wrongly accused. Being a part foreigner to Ireland, it's nice to finally see a bit of change in Ireland and some new skin colours coming in and bringing with it new talents, ideas and views on life. It has been badly needed I feel and is only in the last couple of years really begining to take shape. just look at how Irish, Swedish, Dutch etc. immigrants etc. have done to the U.S. it's now a truly multicultural country with many different religions and beliefs all coexisting with one another.

Gavin

I think it's safe to leave that there naitkris & eth0.
drifting slightly off topic.

Gav

Dr_Teeth

All very dodgy I must say. He's clearly written a standard MFC application which embeds IE's rendering engine, a dvd player, a text-to-speech dll etc etc.

The only way that lot is 1.5mil lines of code is if he counts the source of all the Microsoft libraries he's using lol!

It's an interesting project and no doubt was a lot of work. However it sure as hell isn't SCIENCE, which is what I thought this competition was about.

Teeth.

monument

Did he have this working or is it just an idea???

Some of the others got runners up (or something) just for doing what looks like a text book science experiments

Raggamuffin

To be honest Could Esat/BT make use of this at all?

I mean a firend of mine presented a "science" project involving vaccinations etc.

MY question is how can you give the overall Award to somebody whose project is so obviously business geared and not simply science.

Also if broadband was introduced in ireland ages ago then this project would have been worthless.

GUI

even at 1.5 million
that wouldnt include the mfc libraries..

its blatant this guy has got away with murder..

be interesting if someone emails pat kenny radio show
with url of this thread and get them to read
some of the facts ppl have posted
that obviously show this kid is covering up his tracks..
blatant misuse of GNU code licenses..
copying and using other code as his own

bricks

Doesn't DCU have a really quick net connection, like 40Mbits or more. It may disaplay page 4 times quicker under these conditions. Just like Opera would render quicker in DCU.
And I'd say its a definite that the millions of lines of code includes the MS or other libraries that are used.
If the program uses GPL does he not have to release any enhancements on GPL also?

longword

Originally posted by GUI_XP
its blatant this guy has got away with murder..
blatant misuse of GNU code licenses..
copying and using other code as his own

Steady on now.

Our main complaint is the very fact we have almost no information to play with. Nothing to suggest he has used let alone abused GNU licensed code. Nothing to suggest he has stolen code. Nothing more than speculation that his project has been misrepresented.

dahamsta

Young Scientist To Apply For Patient

'An Luch Bhocht', our weekly computer section, reports on the revolutionary
new 'Ballyhoo Browser'

A LOCAL schoolgirl has developed a Web 'browser' that speeds up the
Internet by 500%. Leaving Cert student Toya O'Connor (17) wrote the 2.5
million lines of code in just 18 months, and is to apply for a global
patent for her revolutionary new invention. Internet developer Mossie
Culhane said last night: 'In a way it just shows that there is nothing new
under the sun. For years we have had modem tweakers, browser enhancers,
proxy software and download managers, but Toya has cleverly managed to put
them all into one package.' Freddy Corcoran, CEO of Ballyhoo Abhaile (Irish
for 'home page') said: 'We're still trying to work out what it's 500% of,
but theoretically the Ballyhoo browser would give users on a normal 56k
modem a 336k connection, which would be ideal given how slow Eircom has
become.' Professor Donie Redmond of IT Ballyhoo's computer science
department said a fivefold increase would have a major knock-on effect on
the industry. 'Eventually we will need only a fifth as many ISPs, which
would be no bad thing. It will also speed up Internet usage by 500%, which
means people will have a lot more time on their hands. I haven't seen the
Ballyhoo browser yet, but strictly speaking I don't think it means faster
file transfers, just faster loading of webpages. The trick is to turn off
various elements such as pictures and sounds.' This is not the first time
Toya has come tops either. She won a national essay competition a year ago
with her essay on 'How I discovered the Internet'. Toya's own WebPage is
at: http://fairplaytoya.4t.com

elexes

wonder if he ment the lil dig at eircom

naitkris

original news article at: http://www.ballyhoo-examiner.com/cgi-bin/ballyhoo/news/index.cgi?ref=browse&f=view&id=1042453152194125175165&block=

seriously though, as funny as the article is (I hadn't laughed so much in years), i don't think it's fair to start mocking the whole thing as there is NO HARD EVIDENCE that it's a copy and paste job - despite all the LOADS OF SMALL EVIDENCE (maybe not even evidence if he has an explanation). All we can do is hope the guy comes out and explains a little bit more about his "invention" and clear up all this confusion that is over the whole thing (on this thread anyway!). it could also be that the Irish Times and RTE just didn't bother to ask or even tell us how it works and that he has actually explained it all, just to a small groups of people, i.e. the judges - which is fine if he wants to patent it. so it could turn out just to be bad media coverage of an event (which is nothing new either).

GUI

well hes not telling us alot about it ;-)

Mailman

Would the DVD component have come from somewhere like
http://www.maximusdvd.com/playdvd.htm

Saw this in February of last year.

Snaga

well its made it to slashdot, not many believers there either

www.slashdot.org

Mr E

780,000 lines of code according to slashdot. Must be on the metric system or something. Some of those comments are very funny:

I have a theory - if he feeds the processor the right series of commands, he could create a resonance cascade that would create a bubble in spacetime which would cause all time inside it to pass at a faster pace than normal.
The downside on this would be that you age four times as fast while surfing, but hey, there's always something ...

- Dave.

davej

I just checked the esatys.com site and I couldn't find any mention of the winners ?

Also it's a pretty shoddy site, they've even spelled the word "guidelines" as "guidlines" on their menubar...amateurs.

davej

naitkris

good article at http://newsobserver.com/24hour/technology/story/712974p-5244591c.html

it says he patented it last thursday, though this without a doubt cannot be true as, legally one has to be over 18 to sign any sort of contract, i.e. a patent. he probably meant his parents did it for him though which is understandable.

things seem to be going from wierd to wierder reading the hundreds of posts at http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/03/01/13/1212253.shtml?tid=95

It is now reported to be "only" 780,000 lines of code (not 1.5 million) and in 18 months (not 2 years) however the Irish Times reported differently - I mean, sure 2 or 3 months off here and there is lazy reporting, but half a year or almost half the amount of code this time around, come on?

still if 780,000 is true, that's 1,500 lines a day while the kid also studies for his leaving cert and goes to school 5 days a week and must also do a few hours sleep here and there or else he'd drop off and die (apparently you can go 4 weeks without food but not more than a week without sleep before you die I've heard). being a programmer, if he somehow managed to pull that off he'll be my new hero.

also, how'd the kid test it out, i mean if it's that big then surely some beta testers would come in handy, though he doesn't even have a web page with both his name or "XWEBS" on it.

seamus

It should probably be challenged in the national papers - Because so little of actually what it does is explained, and because it's nothing new - how did he win with something completely unoriginal?

1,500 lines of code a day isn't impossible, just extremely difficult. At 16, he'd either be in 4th or fifth year, so he's not exactly killing himself with study.

As was pointed nicely out on Slashdot, his Internet footprint is almost zero. Something smels worse than logic's farts.

naitkris

apparently he's in 6th year at the moment according to the Times - he probably skipped 4th year or something if he's 16 now.

below are two interesting slashdot.org posts in response to the news of the innovative new software:

- "Maybe the Irish have a 1. april equivalent today?"

- "Do we have any reason to believe that this has a lower bull**** quotient than that daft '100x compression of random data' story doing the rounds last year"