Forum suggestion: Privacy / InfoSec / Civil Liberties

dahamsta

Just looking for feedback on a forum for the discussion of privacy, personal infosec, civil liberties, crypto, etc; under the Activism category. Ordinarily, the title would be Privacy/Security, but this interferes with the Security forum in Technology a little. Suggestions and comments on a board name are welcome.

I believe I suggested this before a year or so ago and was shot down, but given the gross civil liberties violations in the US and the UK, and the violations McDowell wants to perform here, I think it's incumbent upon us to try and organise ourselves.

One of the reasons I'm doing this now is because of prompting by Karlin Lillington, who is very seriously concerned with current affairs in this area, and has suggested the (re)creation of an Irish chapter of the EFF. I'm attaching an email I received from Karlin outlining some of these issues, her permission to republish it is in-line. Also below is an example of the type of stuff that I would be posting for discussion.

I think a board here is a good way to get an evaluation process started. If that doesn't work, I'll try a mailing list. I might set one up anyway.

Thanks
adam

Hi Adam and David--

Hope you guys are doing well and keeping the insurrections alive on the
discussion boards! We need all we can get -- which is why I'm tossing out an
idea to you, to see what you think as you'd be more intimately familiar with
the activist side of the Irish net world.

Given McDowell's proposed data retention bill, and EU/Irish copyright
issues, and cybercrime elemnts of the criminal justice bill, and the
increasingly uncertain position of encryption protections in the ecommerce
bill, and, of course, EU moves generally on the data retention and
surveillance front, I am really hoping there might be a move to reinstate
the long-defunct Irish branch of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and/or
to create an Irish cyber rights group. The Irish Council for Civil Liberties
only has a single convener on these issues, though they try hard, and they
don't cover them at all on their website. I'm been trying to raise awareness
on the need for such a group for at least four years now (I can't tell you
how many talks I've given and columns written on this issue -- clearly no
one listens to me! [waah!]). I think launching a branch of EFF would give
instant credibility as well as offer some resources to whoever might take up
this challenge.

I've posted a related item on the blog today:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103966/2003/01/06.html#a1074

And I've also been piecing together a privacy data centre and story archive:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103966/stories/2002/12/02/inDefenseOfDataPrivacy.html

I've been in touch with EFF in San Francisco; their main activist is off at
the moment but would be eager, I think, to talk with anyone interested in
such a plan. It would operate in much the same way as IOffline and I know
there'd be plenty of capable hands out there (I am thinking in terms of the
Linux crowd, who are often well networked, and Ireland Offline and the
various boards participants, and students and so forth. Lots of bright
committed people who understand the issues). I know Bernie Goldbach (journo
with Examiner) would be interested in some involvement. I'm in a trickier
position with the Times but I can give space to the issues and am willing to
talk to groups or on panels or whatever. I am just very, very seriously
worried that there are NO voices, NO lobby groups, NO pressure on the
media/industry/government/citizens to address these issues, even as the Dail
starts to secretively consider laws in this area. And certainly, NO group
keeping an eye on MPs and their voting habits on cyber issues. I find it
hard to write straightforward stories on these issues as there's no one to
speak to the issues except the ICLU.

While I don't know if this would be your personal cup of tea, would you
consider reposting this to relevant places (cut as desired) or pushing it
out into some of the tech forums for discussion? I'm happy to arrange
connections for interested parties if that's useful. I will likely push the
issue in my column for Friday and will ask anyone interested to email me --
though god knows if I'll get any response. I really think the topic needs
airing and discussion out in the proper geek forums, where people care about
same.

Regards --

Karlin

RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages

Could we be constantly tracked through our clothes, shoes or even our cash in the future?

I'm not talking about having a microchip surgically implanted beneath your skin, which is what Applied Digital Systems of Palm Beach, Fla., would like to do. Nor am I talking about John Poindexter's creepy Total Information Awareness spy-veillance system, which I wrote about last week.

Instead, in the future, we could be tracked because we'll be wearing, eating and carrying objects that are carefully designed to do so.

The generic name for this technology is RFID, which stands for radio frequency identification. RFID tags are miniscule microchips, which already have shrunk to half the size of a grain of sand. They listen for a radio query and respond by transmitting their unique ID code. Most RFID tags have no batteries: They use the power from the initial radio signal to transmit their response.

You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon. Retailers adore the concept, and CNET News.com's own Alorie Gilbert wrote last week about how Wal-Mart and the U.K.-based grocery chain Tesco are starting to install "smart shelves" with networked RFID readers. In what will become the largest test of the technology, consumer goods giant Gillette recently said it would purchase 500 million RFID tags from Alien Technology of Morgan Hill, Calif.

[...]

vinnyfitz

me supports this service product or campaign

JohnK

Privacy has always been a concern of mine so I would definitely support this.

DeVore

I've been in touch with EFF in San Francisco; their main activist is off at
the moment but would be eager, I think, to talk with anyone interested in
such a plan.

Heheh and so the wheel turns...

Considering Antoin O'L and I set up the (ill-fated) EFI waaaaaaaay back when (seems like a lifetime ago) I dont think I could take the Karma backlash of refusing this request

Oh, and its nice to see Karlin reads the Boards...

DeV.

Typedef

Needless to say, any and all moves to inhibit the data retention bill need to be supported and given the gravitas they deserve.

For me, privacy is a big issue, I don't like the idea of my government or 'any' government thinking itself so important and so endowed with the sceptre of elucidation * that it can in an quasi-Stalinist, neo-Orwellian style snoop on the private information of others.

The paranoid in me says that the government will snoop the information 'anyway', but keeping the legal remit from the big brother authoritarian types is one way the little guy can be protected from over intrusive government scrutinisation of a citizens privacy.

In short groupings dedicated to keeping the little guy's information private are one of the only check points the ordinary people have to protect themselves from a snooping nanny state on steroids.

Edit:
The data retention bill seems born of a righteously indignant government, a government that believes itself so totally fit to govern that it can do no wrong, make no mistakes and is therefore unable to misuse information it 'retains'.

For me, I simply take issue, with the State keeping tabs on me, as if I were a criminal, when in fact, I have comitted no crime, been charged with no offence and deserve no treatment conducive with being a criminal.

Ok, no more ranting.
*I'd just like to point out : 'certain' people around here are in fact clearly.... quite mad...

DeVore

Illucidation?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illucidation

Anyway, it would appear Typie supports this product and/or service.

DeV.

ecksor

Originally posted by dahamsta
Just looking for feedback on a forum for the discussion of privacy, personal infosec, civil liberties, crypto, etc; under the Activism category. Ordinarily, the title would be Privacy/Security, but this interferes with the Security forum in Technology a little. Suggestions and comments on a board name are welcome.

As far as I'm concerned, all of this sort of discussion is welcome on the existing security forum. (I covered that in the FAQ I think ... )

spod

EFI seems to semi exist still and is hosted in connect.

It might be worth seeing if some of the old EFI people want to get involved, give pointers etc.

Also, whilst I agree with ecksor that discussion about this is more then welcome on the Security board, it is a slightly different sphere and to me it sounds like they're planning on starting some sort of campaign ala stand etc.

dahamsta

As far as I'm concerned, all of this sort of discussion is welcome on the existing security forum.

I understand that ecksor, and I appreciate it, but I think that Security's position in Technology would tend to preclude discussion of the political and social aspects of the issues that we would be posting on. That's to say it's where it is rather than who's running it would cause the problem. I have the same problem with the Politics board: I sometimes don't bother posting topics there, because I think it's quite likely the thread will fizzle out prematurely. I think creating a separate board in Activism is the answer: People will see "Activism" in the crumb trail and be able to identify the context. That said, I would hope that the mods of both forums would work together to keep discussions on-topic, in much the same way topics get moved back and forth between IrelandOffline and Nets/Comms.

Cheers,
adam

DeVore

Ok, I need to clarify something.

I thought this was for an IOFFL style group to bring political pressure to bear for privacy/civil liberties?

Is such a group forming ala IOFFL or MIJAG or is this a discussion group in general for the public to mull such topics over?

DeV.

ecksor

Moving the current forum out of technology might introduce the same problem of people not wanting to post their virus (or whatever) questions under a non-tech forum, but I'd rather either keep everything under one forum that people didn't feel inhibited from posting to. Would a name change help? You proposed a privacy forum before at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33745

With the current situation of two boards, it could clearly be separated into one board dealing with purely technology related topics and another dealing with implications-of-technology, laws-which-affect-our-freedom/privacy, what-can-we-do-about-it etc. (Even at that, some infosec topics might be a bit ambiguous). I'm not sure how clear this will be from the naming of the boards though.

On a much more pedantic note, I think that privacy is being used as a catchall term for 'privacy and/or anonymity' ?

vinnyfitz

what about :
Electronic privacy campaign
Digital privacy campaign
Snoop watch
Electronic Freedom
Big brother

or something......

Get some better ideas together and have a poll to come up with one name for both the board and the campaign itself.

Typedef

Why not just call it boards-eff or similar.

Big Brother would be great, but you'd get a tidal wave of muppets saying things like 'bring back goldie'

A sentiment I happen to agree with, but, totally irrelevant to electronic privacy.

How about : Electronic Privacy, for a forum title?

dahamsta

Is such a group forming ala IOFFL or MIJAG or is this a discussion group in general for the public to mull such topics over?

It will be both. The latter will be used to guage interest and supporters for the former. I'll probably also set up a mailing list, so if both the forum and the mailing list die, they can be laid to rest and we can pretend this never happened; if one succeeds, we'll concentrate on that for communications and work towards creating an entity; if both succeed, we'll all go "yaaay!" and slap ourselves on the back for a job well done.

If we really need to give ourselves a name for the moment, I like vinnyfitz's suggestions, particularly "Electronic Freedom". That's what we'd be about, and with the permission of the EFF, we would eventually become "Electronic Freedom Foundation (Ireland)".

adam

ecksor

That sounds cool.

This brings me back to the old problem though, how the hell do we get people who want to post about non-techy security topics to post on the security board?

DeVore

DH: There is EFI.IE hanging around which I'm pretty sure those who control it would be happy to give/loan it out to you guys...

I still know a number of them and they may well be interested in reviving it too. (It was about a decade ahead of its time as I recall, the web was only starting and our Gov hadnt a clue about the internet... actually, not a lots changed now!)

Anyway, Antoin O'L who I'm sure you know was pretty involved in it too and still owns the url I think.

The board is set up but I'd like it to stick to the campaigning side of things to distinguish itself from security where, as Ecksor points out, is more then about patchs and viruses etc....


X_or, I dunno how we do that but I'm open to suggestions (from anyone!)

DeV.

mike65

Its proberly just me, but the foum will proberly end up a rant fest for one or two here, who are convinced "they" are all out to get him/her/them...

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by ecksor
That sounds cool.

This brings me back to the old problem though, how the hell do we get people who want to post about non-techy security topics to post on the security board?

Name change? Something like Computer Security or Network Security or erm, something?


All for the idea - meant to drop Karlin an "I'm in" mail but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Anyhoo - I'm in.

Tinfoil hats on Mike. Seriously though, there will probably be a little of that but any half-decent mod will stamp on heads to make it go away.

dahamsta

First of all, DeV, thanks for setting it up, 'specially when I was taking the mick on Open earlier on. It won't happen again. Well, it will, but it's the fleeting thought that counts.

This brings me back to the old problem though, how the hell do we get people who want to post about non-techy security topics to post on the security board?

Well, let's be honest, Security isn't the only forum there's going to be crossover with, we also have Politics, Humanities, and even IrelandOffline will crossover occasionally. It's really just a matter of the mods working together, and we know from past experience that with efficient mods and community support, we can pull that off. In other words, if discussion on a security-related thread in the new forum is getting too technical, it should be moved or split into Security. Same goes for threads that are getting too political -- off they go to Politics (and off I go with them). (By the way, I realise there was a smiley after your post, but it's going to need a charter anyway, so...)

There is EFI.IE hanging around which I'm pretty sure those who control it would be happy to give/loan it out to you guys...

Quite a few "old hands" were involved in EFI - Antoin, Nick Hilliard, Justin Mason, Dec Kelly - and I would hope that some of them would get involved in this initiative, but I'm pretty sure that most of them won't come to a web forum to do it, and that's why I'll probably set up a mailing list at some stage. As you say, EFI was probably before it's time, and it's sad that it disappeared into the ether, but there is certainly a /need/ for something like it now. Whether people would take up the reins where EFI left off or start all over again is a matter for debate though. I'd certainly hate to see it wither and die again, that would be a terrible shame.

Its proberly just me, but the foum will proberly end up a rant fest for one or two here, who are convinced "they" are all out to get him/her/them...

It's just you mike. I actually wrote a big long rant here and then realised the irony and stopped. So let me just say that although there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there will be several tinfoil hats in there, for the most part I've found that people who don't post sense on forums on Boards either get ignored, trolled, flamed or booted, usually all of the above. On top of that, most of the discussion on the more heated boards like Politics tends to be reasonably sensible. On well-modded forums, it tends to balance out. So again, it's up to the mods.

And on that topic, I'd just like to add a couple of things:

First of all, I think there should be two proven, capable mods in this forum from the off, since it's likely to be a tricky one to mod. I'm not sure if that applies to me - I was a right biatch in IrelandOffline when I was there - but I'll put myself forward and let the Admins decide. Critically though, I don't /care/ if I'm a mod or not, so don't be shy to give it to someone else if you think they'll be better.

Also, I know I tend to bitch about names a lot, but I think names are important, and I have to agree with ecksor that "privacy is being used as a catchall term for 'privacy and/or anonymity'". It's a bit of a misnomer, as is the term "Civil Liberties" in this particular context. If we were to take pedantry to the extreme, the board should probably be called "Electronic Privacy & Anonymity & Civil Liberties / Information Security" or summat equally stupid. Which is why I thought vinnyfitz's "Electronic Freedom" was pretty good.

adam

DeVore

I think it should be named whatever the group is going to call itself.

As for not wanting to use Boards... well they dont have to, but you requested the board...

Either this is for a group who want to use it the way IOFFL make use of their board is welcome. If people want to use a mailing list or both, hey thats cool too but please give me a clear indication of what you want to do as I dont see a reason for or agree with a separate board for this topic on its own, we can rename Security if we want to cover it.

DeV.

dahamsta

I think it should be named whatever the group is going to call itself.

Well, the group hasn't got a name yet; it isn't even a group yet when you get right down to it. Think of it like IrelandOffline: When Esat cut users off Surf NoLimits, a group of them gathered here and in ie.comp and started bitching about it; and IrelandOffline was born out of that. The hope is that an organisation that will campaign for electronic freedoms will be born out of this. Hence Electronic Freedom.

Errah, the name doesn't matter that much, I don't want to get into an IrelandOffline-style flame war about it. Leave it like it is for the moment, we can come back to it.

As for not wanting to use Boards... well they dont have to, but you requested the board...

It's not about Boards Tom, if that's what you're thinking, it's about boards, with a lowercase 'b'. Most of the names I mentioned above are old skool, and a lot of old skoolers don't like web-based discussion forums; I won't go into the reasons why, you've heard them a thousand times before. The people that are posting on this thread /do/ like them though, and I don't think you can deny there's an interest in this subject.

The key here is that someone has to get this started, and Karlin gave me a kick and I'm giving it a go. I'm doing it on Boards, and I'm doing it for the users on Boards, and the Boards community. If other people want to get involved, but don't want to use Boards, well, I'll try and accomodate them. Because this is about the issues we're here to dicuss, not Boards. That's the price you pay for an Activism section.

Either this is for a group who want to use it the way IOFFL make use of their board is welcome.

Well, strictly speaking that wasn't a sentence. But yes, I would hope that it will be used for a group that will act like IrelandOffline. Again though, there isn't really a group yet, so we need to chat about it and see if we can create one. Now ordinarily on Boards, you guys don't create a board until there's clear demand and a definite mandate for it, but again, this is a little different, we need a little space to sort ourselves out.

Lemme put it this way: The Activism section is something new to Boards, and it's a little different to what you're used to. It's experimental, and it's going to have teething troubles. I reckon we can pull something out of this, but I could be wrong, and it could go the same way as the dedicated PHP forum. But let us give it a go, eh? You can always do exactly what you did with PHP, and get rid of it.

Finally, just to come back to the subject of mailing lists, that's really just a matter of taste, and it ultimately comes down to this: We couldn't possibly run an organisation like the one Karlin is suggesting without the support of people like those mentioned above. They're respected in the Internet community and they understand the issues. So we should accomodate them, and hope that they'll reciprocate by understanding that some of us want to do it this way.

Me, I'll do both, because I enjoy both, and there'll be others like me; so hopefully we'll be able to tie the two communties together.

adam

ecksor

Replying to a few posts here ...

Renaming the forum 'Computer Security' or 'Network Security' goes
against what I mean, because I want the forum to be more than just that.
For example, a lot of the security issues that I'm interested in are
very business focused, similar to how a lot of the examples that
dahamsta gives are political in nature. I've started some threads on
Security that would be equally at home (in my opinion) on the
Programming board. If you get down to it, I could reclassify just about
any post made on Security to fall under Unix, MS Apps/OS, Programming,
Net/Comms, Business/Economy or Politics. More frivolously, the
occasional candidate for theatre or humour, and quite often the recyle
bin also, but I digress ...

Anyway, the point is that Security is wide. But, it deserves to have a
central place for people to discuss it, rather than being spread out.

I think that the board will become a place where some people will rant.
That's just part of boards.ie. And within the constraints of outright
nonsense or trolling, people are entitled to rant. I (or anyone else)
am equally entitled to tell the ranter that they're talking complete
rubbish (and why) and out of this should come discussion. Hopefully.

As DeVore said, I'm also quite open to suggestions about how to make the
current Security board more appealing for people to discuss these
matters on (apart from just tech, but we don't want to lose the tech
stuff either). Is it the name? Is it the location? The furniture? Or
the smelly locals? Seriously, I'm assuming that people are
interested in discussing these things, but I suspect they are ...

DeVore

A couple of points.

1. I know those "old hands", I knew a fair number of them when none of us had arses in our trousers so to speak so I know their foibles and I know their strengths.



2. If there is a clear indication that a group is forming (regardless of what its called... in fact lets call it ... The Campaigners Against Malicious Prying (CAMPers!) for the moment) then I'm all for it.

It just wasnt clear that this was a genuine attempt to organise something, rather then a vague "yeah we should all do something about it.... oooh donuts!" kinda thing...



BTW... as for not wanting to use webforums, its got little to do with oldskool and lots to do with technical prissyness and snobbery perpetrated by people who still think that you dont need more then 2 colours: Black and Green. [1]

DeV.

[1] and some of them will argue you only need one because black is the *absence* of green.

dahamsta

If there is a clear indication that a group is forming ... then I'm all for it.

Well, Karlin wants to do it, and I want to do it, and I reckon a few other people do, so let's just say that that's the aim, and if it doesn't look like it's going to happen, I'll let you know and we can merge this back into something.

Thanks,
adam

DeVore

sounds good.

DeV.

sceptre

ecksor's point about the name is a good one (I knew that neither of my suggestions would meet muster when posting them, I was just trying to emphasise the difference between a genuine "security" board (which we certainly need) and this new forum, which as you've mentioned is largely political (or just philosophical) in nature)

I'll let Adam answer for himself but it's not the locals and it's not the smell - if anything the problem might be that an Electronic Freedom (or board with a different name) might take over the security board rather than the other way around. The security board doesn't get that much traffic but it does have a core group that probably wouldn't appreciate discussions on the technical nature of PGP disappearing or becoming overwhelmed by an Irish EFF taking over.

I would maintain that the legal issues of McDowell's proposed bill would be out of place on the current Security board. IOFFL could be moved into Nets/Comms in the morning but it wouldn't help either board if it was. This is as big an issue as the IOFFL campaign IMHO - it potentially affects Irish Net users just as much as the cost of getting online. I realise that I'm a little paranoid by nature (and I'm not saying recent proposals are changing us into a police state) but if it wears a lawman's hat and it keeps records on the assumption that all people are potentially breaking the law, if there something else to call it? There are a number of other issues - the current one near to my heart is Irish mobile providers keeping extended records for extended times in clear violation of the Data Protection Act.

That's just my opinion obviously. If people (and ecksor in particular) feel that these issues would find a good home on the Security board, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

These are just a few comments, I've a number of exams over the next week so I'm not going to be too coherent till after then.

(and yeah, before anyone else points it out, I /have/ noticed that the more tired I am, the more parentheses I use (my last post in Nets/Comms had three sets inside each other. Apologies)

ecksor

I've always felt they would find a good home there. The topics related to the information that companies store about us and what is done in the name of security (or I suppose, where 'security' conflicts with freedom) are also welcome, although if viewed as a niche then they probably have a more natural home on the privacy/civil liberties forum now.

But, if the security board hasn't fostered such discussion up to now, then why not? What needs to change? Of course, it is quite possible that some threads away from the usual beaten track will lead to others and that is all that needs to happen.

dahamsta

the problem might be that an Electronic Freedom (or board with a different name) might take over the security board rather than the other way around

Well, that was certainly ecksor's concern, and I genuinely wouldn't like to see that happen either. Technical security is an important issue that I must monitor because of my job, and the Security forum is one of the places I do that. To be honest though, I can't see many people in either group /wanting/ crossover, because overly technical discussions will get in the way on this new forum, and social & political discussions will get in the way in Security. It's to everyone's benefit to stay on topic, and as ever on Boards, it's up to the mods to keep it that way.

( I'll leave discussion on McDowell and data retention for the new forum. Best not waste it while we have it, eh? )

(and yeah, before anyone else points it out, I /have/ noticed that the more tired I am, the more parentheses I use (my last post in Nets/Comms had three sets inside each other. Apologies)

It's commas with me. Just look at that last post of mine. Awful.

adam

yellum

Originally posted by DeVore

in fact lets call it ... The Campaigners Against Malicious Prying (CAMPers!) for the moment) then I'm all for it.

Theres already a camp board and I mod it with swiss and shinji !

I support Adams request btw.

ecksor

Originally posted by dahamsta

Well, that was certainly ecksor's concern, and I genuinely wouldn't like to see that happen either. Technical security is an important issue that I must monitor because of my job, and the Security forum is one of the places I do that.

Hrm, perhaps I'm not getting my point across here.

jmcc

Originally posted by ecksor
But, if the security board hasn't fostered such discussion up to now, then why not? What needs to change?

Because security is more than just software. And the security forum is essentially viewed as a software forum.

It is not a problem of moderation on the security forum that has stopped such discussion, it is one of a monoculture. The security forum just does not have the wide and varied audience that makes up an EFF like audience. It has to appeal to a wider audience. Many of people in that potential audience will have absolutely no interest in the intricate details of the software but they will care very deeply about what is being done with their data.

It may be a good thing to put a link to the Privacy/Liberties forum on the security forum and vice versa.


Regards...jmcc

dahamsta

Hrm, perhaps I'm not getting my point across here.

I didn't see your last post until after I'd posted that ecksor. It comes down to this: I don't feel comfortable posting about civil liberties and electronic freedom issues on the Security board, and I never have done. I don't think that the general concepts have anything to do with "Security", I think they're more political and social issues. However, I've never felt comfortable posting them in Politics or Humanities either, because it crosses over between them; because I feel like I'm going off topic; and because some people see it as a technology issue.

You can try and change the Security forum, and open it up to the topics we're talking about here, but we've already done that once and it didn't work. I /still/ won't feel comfortable posting these topics in Security, because again, I just don't feel they belong there. That's why I suggested a dedicated forum the last time, and that's why I'm suggesting it this time. The only difference this time is that I'm hoping to get an organisation set up too. So could we just concentrate on that and move on?

[ I feel like I'm arguing against myself here. DeV has said "ok", what, three times now? ]

Ta,
adam

DeVore

...and has already created the board.

Look its dead simple: Discussion along the lines of organising objections to the new bill and the impact an navel-gazing about the implications can stay on the new activism forum, just as IOFFL... sometimes thats going to need technical backup as happens on the IOFFL too.

However I have seen a number of posts (quite a number) kicked from IOFFL over to net-comms because they werent revelant to IOFFL...it could actually work that MORE people will end up posting on a wider range of security topics.

However, if the group DOESNT materialise I will merge the posts back into Security and close the activism one.

DeV.

ecksor

Originally posted by dahamsta
[ I feel like I'm arguing against myself here. DeV has said "ok", what, three times now? ]

You are arguing against yourself for the most part. I'm wasn't objecting to the new board which appears to be filling a certain topical niche (see my earlier post), I'm just using this opportunity to try to get some ideas on widening the discussion on the original forum.

My post about not getting my point across still stands however

DeVore

Xor, I both understand and agree with your point.

Thinking about it I think this WILL (with proper moderation, which I'll be enforcing) be a Good Thing for the Security forum (which perhaps we should rename to Security / Privacy).

Too many people (myself included) think of big corporates with serious data to protect from nefarious "hackers" when we talk about security. One thing I'd like to see is a LOT more discussion on the things to do if you are going to connect a machine at home to a DSL connection for long periods... for example.
Also, what sort of comeback I have available to me if I think people are holding info on me illegally...


"Activism for the activists" I guess it the rule of thumb.

DeV.

leeroybrown

Too many people (myself included) think of big corporates with serious data to protect from nefarious "hackers" when we talk about security.

And the people who deal with computer security are too busy patching, monitoring bugtraq or reading /. to ever bother posting

I think that Adams idea will facilitate the Big Brother form of security talk.

ecksor

I do monitor bugtraq, but never slashdot, and the only places I apply patches are on my workstations and on boards.ie

scojones

Adam i'm all for this, so you can count me in. Just yesterday i created a .doc that i plan to post on the message boards in my college about this.