ps2

Q_Ball

I really cant see what all the hype is about. I'm not exactly all excited about the release of sony's wonder-machine. I still think that sega have a chance with the dreamcast seeing as ps2 will be in limited supply for months after nov. 24th. Yes yes it's prolly the "ground-breaking" console that people make it out to be and that it'll revolutionalise the gaming industry, making sony the mother of them all but i wouldnt count sega out of this JUST YET.

Sony's dream-machine may have upwards of 40 release titles i think it is, many of which haven't been optimized for PAL t.v's i.e. they dont run at 60hz, therefore being slower than they're NTSC counter-parts. Also where is sony's on-line capabilities? Dreamcast is here and now, and with games like Q3A and Phantasy Star Online(this one may have slipped) scheduled for release BEFORE chrimbo, i think a lot more kids are going to wake up on christmas day finding not one of the "many" ps2's shipped here, but a little grey box that just wants some attention.

And yes i may just be in a state of denial cos i luv my dreamcast, but i have a ps, luv my ps, but still aint hyped up for this.

ps2 - Bah, i cant see what all the fuss is about.

Darren

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I'm a MOG, half man half dog I'm my own best friend.

[This message has been edited by Q_Ball (edited 07-09-2000).]

bugs

Hahahahah , online capability?????? on a max 56k connect that never connects at 56k, and come to think of it , DC has a 33.6k modem , gimme a fupping break, NO ONE plays DC online cos it blows!!!

TwoShedsJackson

Chu Chu Rocket is a class game - not exactly high bandwidth.

bugs

Once again , i think all we'll be seeing for the next few months if constant "the ps2 won't wipe the machine i paid 200+ for out"

Its been the same with the saturn and the N64, simple matter is , sony has all the big software houses on their side. The whole fact that its a DVD player gives it 10 times more appeal , its got the top aliasing DVD sony software in it and it retails cheaper than any other one on the market.

So far its launch titles have been not that impressive bar tekken , ridge racer and armored core 2.
Its the same as the playstation , only this time they're starting with a huge customer base and development backing. Broadband IS the way to go , you can't hope to have a fun game of anything needing even relatively fast reactions on a modem connect.

And i'm steadfast in my opinion that sega are going down fast. They owe money to everyone , 33% of their company is owned by a captial investment company. They can't even fall back on japan where they're sales are terrible, they're track record isn't exactly great , they're compulsive liars " we won't make another machine after the DC " , yet when they DC is sinking , they said they were working on another one to rob ppl of their cash for a few months of playing new hardware only to be left with plastic ( saturn ) that now sells in shops for 20 quid.

Limited supply , yes , a pain in the ass , i'm happy i got mine months ago rather than deal with the hassle of getting one now, but its only gonna fuel the hype over the machine , there'll be soo much effort put in by so many ppl to get one that they'll continue. Lets not forget sony's willingness to even advertise in ireland where nintendo and sega won't.

I work in a games store , we sell maybe 1 or 2 DC games in a day , we sell 100 or more playstation games, hell , some days we dont sell any DC games and we sell more ps2 imports!

Blitzkrieger

No, no, no! The X-Box is the way to go

Q_Ball

Taken from http://www.computerandvideogames.com :

Further reports today have confirmed that Dixons on Oxford Street had a tiny queue of 10 people ready to enter the store at midnight last night. Looks like you really don't give a toss. Either that or you didn't know you were supposed to be there.

I know that this is the story for england, and i dont know if thats the story here.

Thats another point, Me, the average gamer, i buy the mags, i rent the games, haven't heard anything about the pre-order scheme for us. To me this seems like sony dont give a toss.

IMHO if sega do get their proverbial thumbs outta they're àrses (yes i admit that they're not treating the DC well enuff) they can win their fair share of the market.

The PS2 is, from what i hear, more popular as a DVD machine than as a games machine, it's hard to programme for and it looks damn rotten

And i don't think its gonna be a case of, as bugs put it

i think all we'll be seeing for the next few months if constant "the ps2 won't wipe the machine i paid 200+ for out"

The fact that people DID pay £200+ for means that most people wont be able to afford another console that costs £379.99.

I dont think we've heard the end of Sega JUST yet.

Darren

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I'm a MOG, half man half dog I'm my own best friend.



[This message has been edited by Q_Ball (edited 07-09-2000).]

Noel Brady

You guys should check out the site of the PlayStation2 Price Cut Petition at...
http://gofree.indigo.ie/~petition

It was started to try and force Sony into reducing the expensive Irish price. After all, why should we pay £379 when US gamers play £299. The punt is currently £1 against $1.14 after all.

Q_Ball

Apparently we should pay £379 cos our british counter-parts are paying £350 and even tho we have the highest ratio of playstations per household in europe we are being exploited to no end by the difference in sterling, not dollars.

apparently.

Darren

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I'm a MOG, half man half dog I'm my own best friend.

bugs

From what i know, there isn't an exclusive pre-order scheme in ireland, in the UK , you can't get one unless you pre-order it.
I think its a bit early to start pumping in orders yet , but anyway.

As far as the other complaints, its getting easier and easier to code for.
If it "looks like cr4p" then thats not saying much for the DC , its first generation games make the latest DC games look awful.

I could be wrong , sega could struggle on for a while yet , but i can't see it happening, ireland isn't going to change the direction it goes and from reading up , their american sales are dropping rapidly , they couldn't and can't sell anything in japan.
They're doing ok in europe, but sega don't give a **** about europe and would probably rather fold!

As far as price is concerned , it won't drop , and you know the machine is gonna walk outta shops!
Personally i paid in or around 600 with a game for mine back about 3 months ago, and its gonna work out pretty well , 160 quid more and my version 1.0 machine is now worth more than i paid for it.
Good old multiregion DVD

Noel Brady

In all fairness, it's Ecco The Dolphin on Dreamcast which makes the current batch of PlayStation2 games look crap.

It's got far better graphics than any of them. It's gameplay that matters though, and PS2 hasn't got this either.

TimeSplitters is the only decent looking launch title.

Q_Ball

:P

whitetrash

i heard somewhere that sega europe is gonna be distributing dc's with a seperate dvd player for £299.
Also there'ss a broadband modem commin out for the dc which will be with us way before sony get their act together.

And... despite what bugs said
"So far its launch titles have been not that impressive bar tekken , ridge racer and armored core 2."

Tekkeen Tag is supposed to be just a rehash of T3 with better graphics.

And RR5 is supposed to be worse than RR Type 4 on the psx.

Sony will have 40 launch games but not enough people will have a ps2 to buy them all. Especially at the £380 price tag.
The ps2 game sales will probably be worse than the dc's because of the large amount of games spreading it out.

Sony is also planning on having about 750 games out in a year, and about 1/4 of them will be by EA alone.


[This message has been edited by whitetrash (edited 08-09-2000).]

whitetrash

btw - i do love my ps1.....and my n64, i just haven't gotten around to gettin a dc yet . I'll get one when the price drops to £150.

oh yeah, the sony europe guy let slip that they're dropping the price right after christmas - great idea for encouraging christmas rush sales

ThunderingMike

Friends! I have seen the light! My Dreamcast fooled me! Or more correctly Sega did. They wanted me to think it was crap. They used **** adverting and tactless marketting statagies to convince me my DC was a piece of poo.
But now I know. It is good! It is a powerful machine and the visionless ****s in the industry refuse to embrace it because they blindly believed it was crap just like me! Those petty underpayed morons will soon realise the error of their ways! METROPOLIS STREET RACER, POWER STONE II, SHENMUE AND SPAWN are but four of the gems on the way. Dreamcast I forgive you!

---

So the pope puts down the Badger and leans over to me and says , " My son , sometimes you talk a lot of ****. Knock it off." Before I could speak in walks Christopher Lloyd with a time machine under his arm and just then...it started to get weird...

Q_Ball

Hehe, the DC 0wnz

Lots of good titles on the way b4 christmas...

Soldier of fortune
Half-life
Quake3
SHENMUE!!!!!!!!!
Ultimate Fighting Championship (dont laugh, it looks great)

and many more....

The future's bright.....The futures Sega

bugs

Hahahah, yes, it may rule , it still isn't supporting itself. They have no money , the only way they could stop those hackers ripping their games was to give em stock options ( i **** myself laughing over that )

They have no market in Japan , a dying one in the US, and a pretty crap one in europe.
Its not an opinion , irregardless of how good you think they are , they literally don't have the finances to keep going for very much longer. And even if the other machines were complete pants , it won't change the fact that all the software companies are going to them.
Shenmue is a seven series , expect 2-7 coming out on another machine.

Blitzkrieger

I honestly don't give a toss cos the games are so damn expensive. My playstation sits idle most of the time cos I'm not forking over 45squids for a arcade-style game that's only going to be interesting for a week. Even at 20squids for an old game it's too much. I can't even imagine how much they'll charge for a DVD.

Shinji

Nice to see that bugs is still so utterly defensive down to the line of the PS2. Although it IS a little sad to see someone so anxious to defend a global corporation like Sony

PS2 games...... Mmmmmm, I like the look of Zone of Enders and MGS2, and G-Surfers looks a bit sweet. Not a lot of the other games look much cop really; certainly, none of them are "next-gen" games, be they on a "next-gen" console or not.

Dunno how much the PS2 will cost in Ireland, over here you won't be able to buy them off the shelves till March (pre-orders only until then) and you'll be paying a nice 300 quid sterling for the privlelige of owning a substandard DVD player (apparently with no RGB out) and a next-gen console with no top-quality software for it. Oh - and before you can play anything, you'll want a memory card (£30 Stg - unlike the Jap machine, you don't get one in the box), and presumably a SCART cable (£35 Stg - and no, old PS ones don't work).

Lots of people have predicted, based on the Japanese model, that PS2 sales will be strong based on people buying them as DVD players. However, it's worth remembering that in Japan, DVD player hardware is VERY expensive - about 500 quid for a mid range player - and therefore the PS2 looked like a bargain for a player. Over here, a mid range player retails for closer to 150 quid...


Look at the DC this Christmas. It's only 150 quid over here now, and at the end of the day, all those folk "holding out" for the PS2 are really, really missing out on some quality software. There is as much Triple-A standard software for the DC now as there was for the PlayStation a year after launch. Frankly, it's a stunning little machine; okay, so it's dying, but by god has it risen high in the last year or so, and this Christmas looks like being a bumper one - no PS2s or GBAs on the shelves, Metropolis Street Racer and Shenmue catching eyes all over the place, the only alternative being a PSOne (that being a smaller Playstation which needs an external power adapter brick, and has no serial or expansion ports on it, and doesn't fix ANY of the texturing bugs of the original PS in the way that the 9000 series playstation fixed some of them), and I don't think that many people are really all that tempted to shell out 70 quid on a prettier PlayStation...

Frankly, I don't like Sony. I don't like their lies about this launch (the launch has realistically been delayed until March 2001, and they are only releasing a limited number of consoles here pre christmas in order to be able to say they met their Q4 2000 deadline), I don't like their overbearing smugness about this console (they refuse to accept that any other console can compete with the PS2 - I heard a Sony exec at ECTS call DreamCast an "insignificant blip" and say that they hadn't even "wasted their time worrying about Gamecube"), I don't like the way they treat retailers, developers and consumers like crap. I'm not alone in this - I had meetings at ECTS with the heads of several US publishing houses, some of them quite big and powerful, who stated openly that they hope that the PS2 fails because Sony desperately need to be humbled.

This all aside, and putting my own prejudices on the matter firmly away, the PS2 is, from an objective point of view, the single most over-hyped and under-performing of the next-gen consoles. It's too expensive, it's too difficult to code for (indie codeshops are voting with their feet and developing for XBox and GameCube), the launch has been bungled, and the titles currently on release are so poor it's laughable.

It'll be the greatest injustice the games industry has ever seen if Sonys PR is allowed to massage the ignorant masses into buying this rubbish.

Ja,
Rob

--
Rob aka [EED]Shinji
Editor, Gameloft.co.uk

DrunkLeprachaun

A Mog is a cat like creature with wings from Final fantasy 7/8, good Dreamcast games are not in abundance, Playstation 2 will win the next "console war", but I'll buy a Nintendo Dolphin(or whatever they call it).

Cake Fiend

Where have you been for the past 2 weeks or whatever?? It's Nintendo Game Cube - see cube.ign.com for details.

NYOM @ that zelda snippet BTW.... /me drools

[This message has been edited by Sico (edited 11-09-2000).]

Q_Ball

Originally posted by DrunkLeprachaun:
A Mog is a cat like creature with wings from Final fantasy 7/8

Its a quote out of a film called Spaceballs

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I'm a MOG, half man half dog I'm my own best friend.

bugs

Whine as you will. No one has yet to address anything i've said.
The DC may have 'useful' games, so did the saturn, sonic R , vampire saviour , manx TT , scud racer , burning rangers. All great games , didn't make a bit of difference tho.
Their marketing/advertising is only bettered by SNK for being completely inept.
They too had an over-priced, badly supported machine when it first came out , or have people forgotten godzilla , a terrible port of sega rally 2 with silly slowdown and virtua fighter 3tb which wasn't bought by anyone!

How many generations of games has the DC had to deal with so far compared with the ps2's first. I've played all the initial releases , godzilla included and the N64 is on par with em all. The graphics were dismal , the gameplay worse.
Irregardless, its a fairly useless effort to buy a machine , even if its getting or has a couple of decent games , being safe in the knowledge that in 6-8 months you won't be able to get games of an use anymore.

Even if the ps2 did bomb , which is a slim possibility. The DC still has too much competition from nintendo and microsoft.
I would say it has a life of early 2001 before the titles really start to decline...

I'm sure you've got different opinions, but they've already lost soul calibur 2 to the ps2 arcade hardware, and IMO anyone willing to pay even 150 for a dying machine is wasting their money!

Shiminay

<following from Bugs last comment>

... and anyone willing to pay £370 for a jumped up DVD player is a tool. I'm sorry, but I can't believe the arrogance of Sony. Ireland, who plays more games than a lot of countries, is once again being given second class treatment because we're too fking stupid to realise this.
I own a Dreamcast and I'm very happy with it. When I want to play serious games, I use a PC. When I want to have a laugh with my mates, I whip out my.... House of the Dead 2 ( ) and my 2 guns and spend a happy half hour shooting bits and pieces of Zombies. I also love the drunken games of Power Stone and Soul Calibur. That's what Consoles are for.
It was rather self indulgent of me to splash the guts of £300 on my DC when it first came out, but I'd been saving for it and I didn't have to pre-order it or whatever.
This bullsh1t about pre-orders till March - it's Sony acting the twat. It's not on. It's Sega all the way as far as I'm concerned. They did fluff about for months too by not having the online access for Ireland and all the rest, but it's here and now, I'm not gonna have to wait months and months to get a DC.

Bugs, we all know you love your PS2 - I'm happy for you, really I am. It's a great looking console with some really amazing looking titles coming for it. But, your opinion is very biggotted.

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

bugs

Biggoted , more than likely yes. I've never liked sega since i bought a megadrive and they quickly fupped me in the ass when the snes came out and they just *stopped* producing titles. They did the same with the saturn and over-priced the **** outta it anyway so no one but the elitest rich kids could afford it.

I use my consoles for serious gaming , gaming on my Pc usually bores the hell outta me , so i use it to download roms basically.

I can completely see the whole argument of the time the ps2 is taking and whatnot.
There simply aren't any to sell i guess , you constantly read about the shortages they have and the numerous factories they're supposed to be building.

Europe as a whole , not just ireland represents an annoying region. We're a region of alot of different countries with varying incomes. An awful lot of different languages and god knows how many other problems. Compared with the Us , who would buy shoe boxes if sega or sony told them to, we're small fish.

They're better off sending all their spare units to the US where the hassle is minimised , they know they'll sell them all and it represents the greatest profit.

As far as DVD playback is concerned , well sega seem pretty in awe of it all , considering they're trying to get in on the action now. I personally think its a better than average player. It plays my DVD's with better quality than my pc's hardware encoded player or a friends home player.
Its limited in that i won't be multiregion here due to a smart little bios chip running off a battery like the CPS-2 boards in the arcades and the fact you use a controller to use it.

Theres enough people slating sony's machine now to fill a small country , and i'd put money that buy march of next year , most of them/you will own one!

ThunderingMike

Amazingly, I read most of the posts on this thread and we can draw one certain conclusion. Dreamcast will contribute to the future of gaming (Shenmue: Do'nt deny it. its the first of its kind no matter how bad or good it is) and PS2 will sell inspite of itself.
As for the others we can in no way safely predict how they will do.

---

So the pope puts down the Badger and leans over to me and says , " My son , sometimes you talk a lot of ****. Knock it off." Before I could speak in walks Christopher Lloyd with a time machine under his arm and just then...it started to get weird...

DrunkLeprachaun

I have to say house of the dead and soul calibur are great for a laugh, they're just too short.
Also Final Fantasy has a better story than spaceballs.

Shinji

Virtua Tennis for the DC topped the all-format games sales charts this week, a good 20% of sales ahead of its closest competitors (Pokemon Yellow and Toca Touring Cars 2).


I'm amused by the paradox in bugs' opinions; he clearly considers himself to be some kind of hardcore gamer, yet he bases his decision on what next-gen console to buy on the basis of what he thinks will be most popular with the masses.

Frankly, if you play a lot of console games, you have no excuse for not owning a DreamCast. It doesn't matter if Sonys bundle of joy kills it off in a years time; the sheer number of top-notch games you will miss out on in the meanwhile is enormous.

Oh, and Kharn - if Irish folk are being treated like third-class citizens by Sony, then bear in mind that Europe as a whole gets treated like sh1te by Sony. The number of good PS games that never saw the light of day over here, mainly because Sony simply couldn't be ar$ed with them, is enormous; the PlayStation2 launch here is botched because they don't consider us important, and overpriced because they think they can get away with it.

ja,
Rob

Shiminay

Y'see, this is why I let you guys do the talking about this Rob - I know nothing about consoles or the companies involved

I get annoyed when I see that the lemmings are gonna queue and queue for a console that they may never see for months. The average console player doesn't know anthing about games or the industry and as a result don't realise that people like Sony (and Sega) are giving it to them up the rectum.

Anyway - I said above why I have a console, for the laugh and nothing else. Use a PC for serious stuff.

I recall an ineresting and humourous story...
Begin ramble>
A mate of mine had a Saturn and had Quake on it. Now, he'd seen Quake run on my old PC (which was really, REALLY bad) and he was convinced that his Saturn was better for it. So, I sat and played for about 5 or 10 minutes and it being a console, it was pants I explained that you really need a mouse and a keyboard to ge the most out of it. He kept insisting that it was just cause that's what I'd gotten used to. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt and I said "Where's your config file? You can't write them for this!" to which he replied: "You don't need to, it's all the same for every Saturn player". Also - a true and valid point. Then he came out with "Anyway, the graphics are WAY better for this..." Compared to my old PC, yes, compared to Open GL Quake - not a chance!
So I showed him GL Quake and I showed him my config file and I showed him what it could do (all the scripts I have) and he kinda felt small and insignificant. heeheehee - take it Console FPS Games!!!
<End ramble>

This shows that the average consoler doesn't care about tweaks etc like us PC Freaks. they also don't realise that they're been given a very raw deal, but buy they must and buy they shall!

Hey, if it's worth getting, I'll get a PS2 - just for sh1ts and giggles, but it'd want to be available - I won't order one and wait 6 months for it. That's Pants!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

bugs

Personally , i don't think forking out 150 or so for a console that has yet to hold my interest in any game is worth it. Any game i've played on it, i've been bored of.
Virtua tennis is fun, but its too simple and the AI is pretty easy to whip.
Soul calibur, IMO is far far too over-rated. Its a good enough game but its badly designed in my eyes. It lends too much to button bashing and most of the ppl i've played who've considered themselves masters are mashers. Its also got probably the most stupid defense system ever , that button block, which i had thought mortal kombat proved more than useless.

If i saw anything in its catalog with some depth i might have bought one , but as is code veronica was the only one i was half interested in , and i just borrowed a DC for that.

Sega should just stick to arcades , their games are tailor made for a quick romp for 50p, they just don't translate to consoles for long play.

I'm sure someones gonna inundate me now with a list of "lengthy" DC games. I've always thought the PSX and N64 had more enjoyable games , even now , with parasite eve 2 and vagrant story....

And as far as mass appeal for the ps2 , theres no question , irregardless of how sony treats europe , its still the mosty known brand , it will still produce hundreds of dud games , but because there are always so many games , a few of them always end up being hits. It was the same with the psx which in all honestly has thosands of games that really blow but has hundreds that don't.

DrunkLeprachaun

The final fantasy games are very lengthy (50 hours play each at least), and they are brilliant games, if you like that type of game.

Q_Ball

Originally posted by bugs:
I'm sure someones gonna inundate me now with a list of "lengthy" DC games. I've always thought the PSX and N64 had more enjoyable games , even now , with parasite eve 2 and vagrant story....

Wont, but i like how you gave examples of PSX games tho

It's taken companies how many years to produce games of that calibur?
DC's out how long?

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I'm a MOG, half man half dog I'm my own best friend.