My Brother wants to leave school

LizardKing

Not sure what people can advise here but here's the situation
-
My 18 year old brother , (who's intelligent and bright academically) , wants to leave school -he's in 6th year with 3+ months left till leaving cert.

It started with him takin 1/2 day sickies and not gettin up for school some days. Then about a week ago he said he was not goin back - My Ma and Da have tryed everything (except physical force) to get him to go but he won't.

He's into his Music (plays guitar) and I think he's into doob too , which is also not the end of the world but he's never had a part time job and with no leaving cert, I can't see him getting anywhere. He's one of these know it all teens who IMO is too immature , but in his eyes he could not be wrong.

Anyone have experiences / advice on what to do with him; I think it would be a complete waste of 6 years of secondary to drop out at this stage but trying to convince him of this is , well like talking to a brick wall.

Help???

hussey

try something along the lines of
'If ya do your leaving cert, we will give ya Xeuro'

it could work

but maybe he has a reason to want to leave i.e. rather be a drop out than a failure (he could think he is failing)

Gordon

Ye he could be very worried that he will fail. Has anyone sat down with him and chatted to him about it seriously?

LizardKing

I have not had a serious talk with him about it , he's pretty hard to talk to - My parents have on numerous occasions talked to him and most times he's accepted what they were sayin' but this time he's being real stubborn , he's spoilt too so offerin him more might not work. I'm gonna talk to him tonight and see if I can get him to see sense :rolleyes:

Victor

I suspect he is feeling a little bit too comfortable in life. Withdraw some privialages, like pocket money, TV time, hot dinnerse ... toilet roll. And leave him with the message that if he wants to get on in life, he will need to work and to get work at better than minimum wage he needs a leaving cert. Don't hassle him directly, but don't cooperate either.

Typedef

Just have 'the chat'.

Do one of those man to man things where you spell out the reasons why, if he puts his head down for three months and gets his act together, his future prospects could be exponentially better then they might otherwise be.

knockeiran

:cool: Kick his ass out, ok! ok! just venting. Tell him to get a job, or 1yr at home then kick his ass out. A lot of kids over here spend a yr or 2 hiding out in the basement, scared of life, dont know what to do. focus on what he is good at, give him a lot of chores around the house, fix this ,paint that, it will soon sort its self out, maybe he will go back to skool, or f off to India, either way its not worth the heart attack! let him choose, then face the reality.

thedrowner

i have a similar situation in my house. my brother is the oppostie of academic thought, really bad grades. he wanted to leave school after 3rd year, and he's also a troublemaker. his teachers therefore, also want him to leave school (were getting used to comments on his report card saying as much) but i think we've finally got it throught to my brother that he sould just sit and do his LC, and then he can do whatever he wants, academically, but for the moment, just try and cover all the bases, in case he needs it later on in life.

its weird though, that your brother has just suddenly decided that he wants to quit. i'd say there could be somehting going on, maybe he could be getting bullied or somehting. or like other peope said he could be worried about failing. i had a friend who had gone back to repeat her leaving to get into vetinry, she did it, got to her 5th year and failed one exam, so she repeated the yeah just for that one subject, and a a few months before the exams she decided she didnt want to do it anymore.

we all tried to convince her that it was only a few months more slog, and to go for it, or she'd regret it. well..she didnt go for it, and she's now regretting it. but the reason she dropped out was because she didnt think she was going to pass it (with a mixture of other things)

hedgetrimmer

there must be some reason, some catalyst that has made him make this relatively drastic decision. I'd try find out why he has decided this, get to the core of the reason, before making him go back to what could be the source of a deeper unhappiness

Victor

Could it be that your brother is depressed? (Not sure if teenagers would be capable of being classed as clinically depressed). "1/2 day sickies and not gettin up for [work] some days." was how depression started for me.

ManWithThePlan

Sounds like he could be getting bullied.
Go have a talk with him but don't make it too obvious or he mightn't tell you the truth.
Good luck.

Pepe LeFrits

kick the lazy punk out of the house for a few weeks

sickle

same problem with my little bro,he just turned 17 and has dropped out of school (he was never interested) so we are sending him off to join the army...muhahahaa

LizardKing

I tried to talk to him after work before he went out to - I asked could I ask him 3 questions , he's really defensive and just told me to **** off and kept saying " no " to my questions...

I asked him Why he was leavin ?, did not get much but he just hates his school...

I asked him Where he was gonna get a job ? he did not answer just said 'dunno' ....

I asked him Why he would not do the leaving with 3+ months left ? , he said he may still do it if he can change schools.

I was not aware of the school change thing but seemly all his friends go to a local school and my ma's tryin to get him into there for the last few months... IMO that would be really hard joining a school at that stage, I'm still unsure if he is being bullied or not ; I went to the school myself and know there was a lot of slagging / bullying in 1st /2nd year but 6th year you'd think that'd stop by then.

As I said its very hard to talk to him... My dad thinks he may be depressed / so the fear of failing leaving cert. may be a factor too. He's the youngest and has a bit to live up to with my sisters and I.

Thanks for the replies and I'll let people know the outcome

me thinks it may be that he'll drop out and be a loser livin' off the state / my parents and generally being the bad sheep of the family

Really though , I hope he cops on cos' leaving cert is pretty important as a base requiremant for most half decent bottom of the ladder jobs .....

seamus

Tis a pity he's thought like this so close to the LC. A mate of mine decided he was leaving at the end of 4th year, but his (very easygoing) parents struck a deal with him - take a year out, and decide at the end of the year, whether to go back or not. He was thinking "f'in sweet, this'll be great", until his parents told him that he would be paying £150 rent every month and 1/3 of all bills. It took him about two months to realise that no-one except a petrol station or a supermarket would take on an unqualified 16 year-old full-time, and that he would be boned in the 'real world'.

Have a chat to him about the doober. It's no good for you coming up to the leaving cert...it makes you lazy and messes with your memory. That could be why he's taking 1/2 days or full days off.

I took an unbelievable amount of 1/2 days in 5th year, until they caught and suspended me It kinda shook some sense into me, in the "Hang on, wtf am I doing, I'm just screwing myself by dossing around" way.

{edit:

Having just seen your latest post, I know exactly what he's thinking. When I got suspended, I thought, 'Great, now's my chance to switch schools'. In fact it was mainly just my attitude to school that needed changing. Anyone's who been in a job too long, will recognise the pain you feel going in every morning and dreading every Monday morning, the thought of an entire week ahead of you. But unlike changing jobs, changing schools won't make any difference. He's not sick of his school, he's just sick of school. Grass is always greener and all that.......
Try to make him understand that 3 months is nothing, that all of his mates will be going off to college, and he'll be stuck in a rut. Once his leaving cert is over, he can do whatever the f*ck the he wants. For the sake of 3 months, he'll be throwing away his intelligence and his prospects.
That was the main thought that kept me going through 6th year.

Victor

Originally posted by LizardKing
He's the youngest and has a bit to live up to with my sisters and I.

This could be an important factor. Many youngest children end up being spoilt, insulated and protected. Not their fault, but they end up being unrealistic. Maybe he does need a dose of real life.

spod

Originally posted by Victor
Could it be that your brother is depressed? (Not sure if teenagers would be capable of being classed as clinically depressed). "1/2 day sickies and not gettin up for [work] some days." was how depression started for me.

Teenagers are very capable of getting severely depressed. Typically it gets confused with Harry Enfield's Kevin style "I haaate you" type teenage stroppiness until things get a bit more serious.

As for the topic, a possibility (I know of one or two people who did,) is to take your exams as an external candidate with a local examination centre. Study at home working to same timetable as you would have in school. Do the work etc. If he is as bright as you say he should be able to pull it off. Although motivation could be a problem.

Not sure how feasible it would be with only 3 months to go, but I'm sure it should be possible.

Sangre

Why is evering one saying 3 months, did i miss something, I thought the LC started in June, about 5 months work left!

IMO the paying bills is a great idea, although it depends on the parents really, also does did you and your sister do quite well academically etc....

Also i'd say confrontation i.e direct q's is the worst way to go about it, he'll just get very defensive and wonder why every1 is hassling him about HIS life

The Corinthian

Cut off his little finger then say "if you don't do your leaving, your thumb is next". Then he should play ball.

Worked a treat for my baby sister and her junior cert.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

ive alwasy preferred the fake execution method myself. Some night get a few of ur da's m8s. Get a car and kidnap him on the way home. Pretend ur goin to shoot him (where u get the gun is up to you. I know a guy. Call me.) Then wait till he pisses himself, let him sit in it for a while, laugh alot and through him back out on teh street, Then when he returns he will appreciate life alot more.

On a more serious note, bring him to a soup kitchen or something and show him what the disadvantages of having no eductaion can lead to. Although before any of you hastily post in im not saying that a good education ensures you a job, but it damn sure helps when ur goin for that brain surgeons job.

lordsippa

Does sound like depression <oh and 11 year olds are capable of clinical depression>. I went through the same thing last year. Not pleasant.

But maybe talk to him about changing school or finishing his courses and then taking the last few months off and just studying himself. At least sitting the exams. Y'know...

But yeah... be careful on the subject. He DOES have his reasons, and in fairness they should be respected. But not doing your leaving just cuts you off from so many options. It's better to just go through the last few months of bs and get it <which is what I'm doing right now... GRR>

Oeneus

I left school early, and that same week I decided to move out of the country on my own and head back to Wales, then took my chances of getting into college with no LC... and I succeeded.

Why? Because of depression. But that was a year ago.I won't go through the hundred reasons why(again) but his reasons may be similar, and very understandable. But I really don't understand why he's quitting with 3 months left.

Dawg

It does sound like he's suffering from depression, maybe he's just got a lot on his mind and is afraid of bad grades. Leaving this close to the LC would be an awful waste of time and effort but if he really doesn't want to be there then he isn't going to put the time and concentration into getting decent grades. imo crap grades in LC is as bad as, if not worse than no lc at all.

In my case I left well b4 the LC due to various reasons (going back 9 years now). I always had good grades and did well in exams but just wasn't happy and gradually started getting into more trouble in school. Leaving it wasn't the end of the world and I've got pretty good qualifications now not a mention a decent paying job but u should make it clear to him that if he ever wants to earn decent money after leaving early its going to mean a hell of a lotta work in the coming years balancing work and study together, and in the long run putting himself under a lot more pressure purely to catch up.

Just making him stay in school with threats of this, that and the other isn't going to help him. Undrstanding what the problem is and changing his outlook rather than his circumstances will do a lot more good in the long run.

Just my two cents anyways...

Yurmasyurda

If he's intelligent as you say he will figure out what he should do eventually, life's an experience, you live - you learn. I left school when I was 15 but this was for a few reasons, one of them was because it bored me, I didn't see any point in doing a lot of exams that I wasn't particularly interested in. Fortunately it worked to my advantage and I have learned quite a lot since then but I would not turn back the clock. As I said though, he will figure out what should be done for him. Just try to be there for him instead of forcefully trying to get him to do it because this does not work with teenagers!

Yurma

De Rebel

Originally posted by LizardKing
me thinks it may be that he'll drop out and be a loser livin' off the state / my parents and generally being the bad sheep of the family

Really though , I hope he cops on cos' leaving cert is pretty important as a base requiremant for most half decent bottom of the ladder jobs .....

Sounds like stress, whatever about depression. You don't say it, but it also sounds like this is a recent development.... so there may well be something getting to him.

I'd suggest you guys divide and conquer. If the folks and the sister take the "preachy route" and you take the brother/friend position. You forget all the "whats good for you" arguments and trying to get him to do what is in your opinion "the right thing".

Tell him you want to stand by him, that you will respect his decision, and will stick by with him whatever the outcome. Tell him you don't understand his position or where he is coming from but would like to and see if he will share with you. Chances are if there is something major going on, he is aching too share whatever pain is in his head. If he is bright and intellegent he can probably already see the downside of his actions, and this probably increases the stress. Put aside your first thoughts of giving him advice. Shut up and listen to him. It will be difficult, but if he needs help, then its your responsibility to be there for him. The challenge for you will be to let him lead his life, make his decisions and to be impartial and objective.

Its obvious you have his best interests at heart, and thats half the battle. Now all you need to do is to counsel him, rather than advise him.
Good luck.

LizardKing

Thanks for all the great replies , mostly lots of good advice - I think I'll pass on the chopping off his fingers though

At the moment he is still out of school - My parents are trying to get him into another more local school , where most of his friends go. I have taken a less agressive roll to this and have tryed to be impartial and tryed to give him a chance to talk to me. He's still not talking much but I've had little chats and he's said he will sit the Exams even if he does not get into the other school and that he'll work from home. I dunno about this but I'm gonna try and help him as much as possible by getting books articles tutorials etc. from net.

I hated the leaving cert. too but we never had the World Wide Web when we did it so there must be a few good sites out there dedicated to helping leaving cert. students. If anyone has any links that'd be great.

cheers again

Catch_22

Originally posted by ManWithThePlan
Sounds like he could be getting bullied.
Go have a talk with him but don't make it too obvious or he mightn't tell you the truth.
Good luck.

Bang on, he has no problems with sitting the exam ofr going to another school, hes just scared ****less to go back to his old school,

best of luck with the other school i reckon that s the way to go.

PH01

It's no big deal really. Let leave school and he can come back and do the LC some other year. Tell him to go off and see the world for a year. Give him an airline ticket that will take him around the world. Let him find out for himself what is important.

On the other hand, there might be something happening at school that is stressing him out? Is he being bullied? Or is the pressure of the LC too much.

Eitherway sort it out with him.

Darth Henry

some important points mentioned in these pages which have to be emphasised.

#1 - if hes been bullied, SUPPORT HIM whatever way you can.

#2 - don't force him to do anything, he'll do the opposite.

#3 - if hes intelligent as you say then maybe its a fear of failure.

some people see the LC as the exam that decides your life.
if hes been studying day and night for it and feels hes getting nowhere then it's very easy to throw the towel in. i felt like that.

also, i don't think you mentioned how his pre-lc exams went? that could be a factor.

#4 - We only get one life, we can't go back and change what we did ten years ago. He has to realise that. If your parents have given up on him then you shouldn't. He'll thank you in a few time when hes more mature.

#5 -

Do the Leaving and the world is your oyster.
Drop out and thats what you are.

LizardKing

Little Update;

He's left his old school and moved to a new one closer to home where a lot of his friends go. He seems more happy there and has organised to sit his leaving cert. in this new school.

I believe now he will sit his leaving cert however i'm not too sure if he's putting in much study, but its up to him now.

Thanks again for all replies ....

Kell

Originally posted by Darth Henry
Do the Leaving and the world is your oyster. Drop out and thats what you are.

I have to disagree with this sorry. A few examples-

Did I sit the leaving cert: Yes
Did my ex: Yes
Did I do well: Not particularly
Did my ex: Yes
Did I go to college: No
Did my ex: Yes
How much do I earn 10yrs on: You dont want to know
How much does my ex earn 10yrs on: No where near what I do

The job that I went into after school was in catering, therefore the LC wasnt at all important. What I am trying to get across is there are alternatives. I mean at the end of the day, going to college improves your mind and what else- earning potential. Four years into full time work I was earning more than any post grad fresh out of college by a long shot. I also have a better appreciation of the world and the wonders that fill it (no I aint a hippy) than most lateral thinking types.

Bottom line- How to win a job? Attitude and adaptability not qualification. Unless of course it's a neurosurgeon you want to be.

Big Chief

i left school at 16, and i learned one thing in life "its not what you know, its who"

After leaving at 16 i worked as a civil servant for almost 2 years (due to the fact parent knew one of the management in there)

just cause you leave at 16 dosent mean your gonna be flipping burgers for mcdonalds...


Im now working up at the financial centre in dublin and ive still yet to get a further education, although dont get me wrong i do plan to in the near future..

besides that i wouldnt turn back the clock for a second (while i was 16 and getting a pretty wage me and all me friends went on holiday to spain etc) and i generally enjoyed life and i learned alot of things that college just cant teach you. (like actual real life wise)

sorry just sick of some of the attitudes of "**** ive not got all 1's in my exams, my life will be a failure" :rolleyes:


and by the looks of things i would have said your brother was getting bullied or in trouble of that sort, atleast imo. Certainly showed all the signs.

Glad to hear everything went ok though

[edit] = the other part of my post was meaning "life is what you make it" kinda thing [/edit]

banjaxed

Bottom line- How to win a job? Attitude and adaptability not qualification. Unless of course it's a neurosurgeon you want to be. [/B]

.. or an architect, or an engineer, a doctor, a vet or thousands of other jobs that require a qualification. Qualifications aren't just a piece of paper. They prove that you can attain a certain standard. I would not want to live or work in a building designed by someone who was not qualified to do so, but who was adaptable and had a nice attitude. I you were in court charged with murder would you want to be defended by an unqualified but "nice" person? I don't think so.

The bottom line is that some jobs need qualifications and some don't. If you're happy doing a job that doesn't need qualification ... fair enough. But some people aren't just after money, they're after job satisfaction. How much you earn is a moot point. If your heart is set on being a waiter go for it. If your heart is set on being a vet all the attitude and adaptablility in the world won't cut the mustard if you don't have a relevant qualification.

For many jobs a qualification is a minimum standard, attitude and adaptability are also required, but they aren't enough on their own. Saying otherwise is just untrue.

banjaxed

Originally posted by Big Chief
i left school at 16, and i learned one thing in life "its not what you know, its who"

After leaving at 16 i worked as a civil servant for almost 2 years (due to the fact parent knew one of the management in there)

Not sure how old you are, but I've never heard of anyone being employed in the Civil Service without going through the Civil Service Commission and being qualified or passing civil service exams. If it did happen in the past, it sure as hell would not happen now, because all civil service jobs must be advertised and the best person for the job gets it. Nepotism and oldboynetworkism
do not apply in the civil service. Even canvassing for a job outside of official channels will disqualify you from a post in the civil service.

The only job an unqualified 16-year-old will get in the civil service nowadays is a cleaning job.

Big Chief

im 20 justnow..

I started off as a "casual" (temporary 12 mth contract further to extension) in the CSA in Falkirk (scotland, im not from ireland). I've never once heard of "civil service exams" and wtf is a "civil service commision" ?

I was told to start as a casual and when the opportunity came up for a perm place i went for the interview and got it (due to the 6 months experience i had of working there i imagine) Again i wouldnt have got the job if it hadnt of been for my mum asking one of the managers inside the place (i didnt even goto an interview for the casual position, i was just told to turn up on monday morning). Hence why im also saying its not what you know, its who (yes ofcourse you need to get an education, and im not saying i never) but my point still stands.

And i still stand by the fact of life is what you make of it, and thats all upto you. I moved to dublin when i was 19, and im having a great time, apart from the price of gettin pìssed at the weekend ofcourse


and

The only job an unqualified 16-year-old will get in the civil service nowadays is a cleaning job.

i had good grades at school, how am i "unqualified"?

banjaxed

Originally posted by Big Chief
im 20 justnow..

I started off as a "casual" (temporary 12 mth contract further to extension) in the CSA in Falkirk (scotland, im not from ireland). I've never once heard of "civil service exams" and wtf is a "civil service commision" ?

And how was I supposed to know you're talking about Scotland? That's not the way things are done in the Irish civil service. I simply think that most Irish 16 year olds reading your original post would assume they could leave school before Leaving Cert and get their mammies to get them a job in the Irish civil service. This is emphatically NOT going to happen. You should make clear that you're talking about Scotland.

Again i wouldnt have got the job if it hadnt of been for my mum asking one of the managers inside the place (i didnt even goto an interview for the casual position, i was just told to turn up on monday morning). Hence why im also saying its not what you know, its who (yes ofcourse you need to get an education, and im not saying i never) but my point still stands.

Your point stands in Scotland and you should have said this originally, your point does not stand in relation to Ireland. Your experience cannot be reproduced here, and as this is an Irish WWW site most people (like me) will assume you're talking about ireland.

i had good grades at school, how am i "unqualified"?

Again, you're now talking about Scotland, not Ireland. Most Irish people who leave school early leave with no qualifications (ie. they did not do any state exams) and while they will still be able to get some jobs, the vast majority are closed to them. Results obtained in school xmas and summer exams count for diddly in Ireland, precisely because anyone who can do well in school exams will make the effort to do well in the state exams.

hussey

Just because someone goes to college doesn't mean they are going to succeed.

Most people think of drop outs as losers/wasters who hate school etc.

One of my friends dropped out at 16 to be an apprentice (not quite the same point but however)
he is same age as me, he earns 5K more than me, and I have a nice shiney 1.1 from a DCU computer degree(which means nothing!).

Another friend of mine worked all the way through college in Marks+Sparks, he is now assistant manager.

as big chief says it doesn't mean your gonna flip burgers all your life.

Yes you need to go to college for some degrees but you dont need an education to be successful.

The Reaper

my bro want to leave school and it aint rite cuz he wudn survive 4 2secs! he asked me mam cud he leave he really wants to! but she asked him wat is his plans?? he didnt have a clue! hes in 5th year just did his junior i dont want him to leave cuz hell only end up hanging around with the wrong ppl and i no tat 4 a fact cuz wen he aint at school he hangs with some of them! they are really druged up scumbags! skangers! hes turning into one of them! its like a transformation u can c different things changing about him every day! he thinks he is a big tough guy when he only 15 looks like his big bro ME will have to kick d sit outta him but it wont change a thing cuz ive done it many times b4!

Catch_22

Originally posted by The Reaper
my bro want to leave school and it aint rite cuz he wudn survive 4 2secs! he asked me mam cud he leave he really wants to! but she asked him wat is his plans?? he didnt have a clue! hes in 5th year just did his junior i dont want him to leave cuz hell only end up hanging around with the wrong ppl and i no tat 4 a fact cuz wen he aint at school he hangs with some of them! they are really druged up scumbags! skangers! hes turning into one of them! its like a transformation u can c different things changing about him every day! he thinks he is a big tough guy when he only 15 looks like his big bro ME will have to kick d sit outta him but it wont change a thing cuz ive done it many times b4!

And if his grammer and spelling is anything like yours he'd probably fail the leaving anyway. I mean that was barely ledgible :rolleyes:

Borzoi

Originally posted by hussey
Just because someone goes to college doesn't mean they are going to succeed.

Most people think of drop outs as losers/wasters who hate school etc.

I work for a 'drop out' who left work at sixteen, he's now 45 and owns a multinational company.

Me with a 2.2 in enginnering, working on a masters, is a wage slave.

Success is down to the person - not that qualifications

Sangre

Originally posted by Borzoi
I work for a 'drop out' who left work at sixteen, he's now 45 and owns a multinational company.

Me with a 2.2 in enginnering, working on a masters, is a wage slave.

Success is down to the person - not that qualifications

Yes some people have the talent to be successful no matter what, but there is NO way you can compare you're boss' success to this kids prospects. Try and get a loan from a bank as a dropout, of coarse you can always go the hard way and work you're way up. It would still be very hard to get a job without a LC in this economic climate.

I know people who say that they will be fine just cause they're dad never went to college, but thats just stupidity

The Reaper

Originally posted by Catch_22
And if his grammer and spelling is anything like yours he'd probably fail the leaving anyway. I mean that was barely ledgible :rolleyes:

wat u one of these nerds tat went to a posh grammer school or somethin???

Lolo

Just have to get my oar in here . I dropped out after 5th year (actually I took a "year out" which turned into 5 years out). I spent a couple of years getting all the sex'n'drugs'n'rock'n'roll of youth out of my system, then went back and did 1 leaving cert subject at night aged 21 (did v. well), did a preparatory course for mature students in UCD aged 22(did v. well), got offered places in DCU and Trinity as a mature student, chose DCU, did my degree, did v. well, now working in media in London. Hurrah!

if I'd gone to college at the age of 18 I would have been far too distracted by being 18 to do well at all. Granted, I spent ages on the dole/doing ****e jobs but during those years also spent lots of time in bands, DJing, writing for music magazines etc and had a great time. University of life an' all that, might do him the world of good.

deimos

hmmmm, what if he is just nervous of failure, like he is ata realisng just now that he is going to be doing something in a few months that may decide the rest of his life, he is afraid of failing it or just screwing up so he decies the easier way out would be just to leave... personally i could actually see myself doing something similar, but i know i need my leaving so i aint going anywhere until after it...

just try to get him to give it a shot even, dont let ppl put emphasis on it otherwise it will seem like this big giant demon tryint to devour him...

The Reaper

well he aint scared he just hates school he has been suspended 11times and exspelled once or twice he just one of these messers acting cool and tough!!! seriously we all messed about alot in school but he just takes the piss! he Fúcks teachers off!
he always mitches if only i can show him wats ahead of him he wud know he has to settle down!!!!!!!!!