Irish brothers...we got our first DSL prices..from a private company (bastards!)

Sovjohn

Edit: Correct Prices!

Hello there,

glad as I am to find out the first thread of mine reached 2 pages (quite some replies), let me give you a quick update on the Greek situation and ask for your advice:


Today, January 15th, a Greek company which poses as an alternative telecom provider (although one of the few with their own network, thus not being OTE dependent..Or so they claim!), Vivodi SA ( www.vivodi.gr ) announced they extend their line of business DSL to cover "home users" too.

Since they charged a good 1000 Euros for the business DSL (a bit less than a leased line), I wont stop considering them thieves.

However, please take a look at the prices and suggest anything you think it'd be worth doing, judging those are the first official prices of a company in Greece.


256/128 k DSL: 112 Euros/month, VAT included.
384/256 DSL: 148 Euros/month, VAT included.
512/256 DSL: 172 Euros/month, VAT included.

Installation fee: 147,5 Euros
Modem fee: 76,7 Euros for a SAGEM one.


Now, considering they wont be using OTE's network but instead use M1020 "small leased lines" to connect each customer, OTE can repeat the tactic he followed:
Delay delivery to any M1020 Vivodi related lines for 30 days or more, while any other applications will be served in 3-4 days.

How about the prices? Although I pay 90 Euros per month for ISDN 64, I doubt I can pay 112 for just having a 256k..

Opinions anyone?

Thanks all in advance!

pork99

Originally posted by Sovjohn
256/128 k DSL: 112 Euros/month, VAT included.
384/256 DSL: 148 Euros/month, VAT included.
512/256 DSL: 172 Euros/month, VAT included.

Installation fee: 120 Euros
Modem fee: 65 Euros for a SAGEM one.

:eek:
It looks like all your bandits came down from the hills and are now running telcos

Meh

Originally posted by Sovjohn
256/128 k DSL: 112 Euros/month, VAT included.
384/256 DSL: 148 Euros/month, VAT included.
512/256 DSL: 172 Euros/month, VAT included.

What are the download caps like?

Lemming

Christ!! And I thought we had it bad with eircom's DSL prices.

256/128 for 112 euro + vat a month??!! :eek:

Might want to check out various telecomms reports at European level, such as the OCED tables. The url links escape me at the moment

I'm sure one of the other committee members (/me looks at Ray ) has the links handy.

Also take a look at the rest of Europe's broadband offerings, and then approach politicians with this information, etc.

Maybe try find people who tried to/are attempting to set up businesses in Greece, but are finding it extremely difficult and have had to give up. Then write case-studies to prove that these prices are costing the Greek economy jobs.

Sovjohn

Originally posted by Meh
What are the download caps like?

Download caps? Sorry, my English are quite advanced but I dont know ALL words:)

If you are referring to any limits (in total data transfer, or in time online) there aren't any.

I d sincerely prefer a DSL of 256k at 40 euros/mo and 10 gb free traffic, tho...

And, no those prices are final.

The equivalent prices w/out VAT are:

256k:95
384k:125
512k:145
setup:120
modem:65

Tellox

your 512k isnt that bad considered to eircoms 3gb dl limit (cap) , but the 256k is ludicrious

hey,dont worry about it, irelandoffline get closer to their goals everyday, im sure you'll soon feel the same about greeceoffline

ozt9vdujny3srf

That is absolutely scandalous and i am amazed it is allowed to happen.

an eu telco regulator would be nice

spongebob

EU report Here

Number 0695 03 December

Pick your favoured language

Delphi91

I was talking to a friend of mine in the US last night and we ended up talking about DSL (as you do )

Anyway, I checked what was on offer from her ISP. Have a look:

****************************************************

Unlimited, "always on" Internet access
Easy to use self-installation instruction information
Engineering of data line by an authorized telephone company technician
Four 5 MB Email Accounts
6 Email Aliases
5 MB Personal Web Page
24x7 live technical support by your local Stargate team
Additional dialup account available at $9.95



Extreme DSL

Speed
512Kbps/512Kbps

Stargate Monthly DSL Charges
$49.95 per month

Modem
FREE ($150 value)

Installation Fee *
FREE

Home Networking Support
FREE

****************************************************

There were a few offers, depending on what local Telco you used, but I thought this was phenomenal! Given that the $ to € exchange rate is roughly 1-1, this is a good indication of what we SHOULD be paying....

Oh, and by the way, she was telling me that $49.95 per month was considered expensive by a lot of people over there.

Then I started telling her about our ADSL system here and our lack of flat-rate, etc, etc....She was shocked!


Mike

Tellox

I've had worse convos, I spoke to somebody in massachussets once, and He told me he had a 1024k/756k connection, uncapped for $20 a month, and didnt have to pay for the modem, or installation... I told him I was paying €30-50 a month for 56k access, which connected at 45.2kbps, and he didnt beleive me. Honestly, he didnt.

Richard Barry

Originally posted by Sovjohn
Download caps? Sorry, my English are quite advanced but I dont know ALL words:)

If you are referring to any limits (in total data transfer, or in time online) there aren't any.

In the Irish context the "cap" is the former - typically 3Gigs per month on the former state controlled Eircom's i-stream network (you can visit their pathetic website here! www.adsl.ie. (Note that Irish DSL prices quoted therein do not include VAT because it is only available for business customers). Please don’t give them fresh ideas about adding a “time online” surcharge to DSL tariffs too!

Excess data traffic costs EUR 30,- per Gig. eg updating your Linux operating system via download might cost an extra EUR 90 in traffic fees alone + VAT. i.e. eircom DSL is not “flat rate” unless one can afford their “enhanced” service which costs EUR 209 per month!

When I first saw Vivodi's (looks not unlike Vivendi!) "DSL bundle" I thought that they might be unbundling your incumbent's line and offering a package of DSL internet + voice telephony down the copper pair. Alas they seem to be using "smart box auto dialler" for the PSTN call setup : - (

The only way to wake up the incumbents in dozy countries like Greece and Ireland AFAICS is large scale unbundling of the loop with an alternative operator offering both DSL and their own dialtone in a package. This would allow you to exchange your incumbent’s service with an alternative providing perhaps up to 4 voice lines + DSL internet over the single copper pair, and make the combined monthly bill attractive for the service provider – particularly if it included cable TV via the DSL segment.

The Irish market is in a particularly difficult position because it is essentially a bi-nopoly of the Irish incumbent and the British incumbent - ie two, dozy, old style state owned, don’t rock the boat, telco types – ie two incumbents basically. For 512k DSL, Eircom charge EUR 89 and ESAT BT charge EUR 90 + VAT (ie about EUR 108 incl VAT).

Sadly eircom’s market share has been increasing in many segments of late. While many EU governments are planning for 50 – 60% market shares for their incumbents between 2005-2010, eircom will probably retain 90%+ in all but a few areas. The monthly subscription for a phone line has been going up and up over the past few years and is now almost twice what one might pay elsewhere in Europe. One wouldn’t mind this if phone calls charges were falling. Calls to other European destinations typically cost 2 to 8 times as much when made from Ireland compared with inbound calls received from say France, Germany or Switzerland – using the incumbent network in all cases.

While Ireland has anti-monopoly laws with relatively tough penalties (fine = 10% of revenues), the Competition Authority charged with preventing monopoly abuse won’t touch Eircom because they say it is regulated by ComReg. In fact ComReg are little more than an “arbitration panel” acting between eircom and its “competitors” dealing with intra industry disputes. This leaves the consumer (who are still relying an quaint telecommunications laws dating back to the last century “Telegraph Acts”!) with no rights when it comes to the biggest matter in the scale of things – ie abuse of a monopoly.


R.

MDR

The Hairy Japanese Bastards ! :rolleyes:

Its seems that you have a similar bunch of idiots running in Greece. Have you tried contacting any of the Greek media about this yet .... ?

A good starting point would be a simple price comparision between Greece and her immediate neightbours ... Italy etc.
If you start throw figures that very oboviousily suggest huge overpricing the European context, and then go on to further explain the importance of the Internet for Business/Educational Development.

Check out the ECTA then have some very usefuly figure regarding EU telecoms. Particularily their DSL scoresheet.

acous

hehehe my new sig (no offence Sovjohn )

my English are quite advanced

Sovjohn

Duh:)

I must be more careful the next time I post here in 2:00 am or so...My mind runs at speeds below the default clock:))

No offence taken mate.