is the word "gay" offensive?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i was just watching a video on the music video channel p-rock on sky digital (461) and the song "violent delight - i wish i was a girl" came on..

there's a line in the song

some people think I might be gay,
but I don't swing the other way

i saw this vid when it first aired on the channel a while back, and that line wasn't censored at all.. but this time.. the word gay was cut out.. replaced by a woman moaning or something..

which got me wondering why...? did someone call in and complain about the word "gay"? did the channel just decide it wasn't "pc"? and why do they think a soundbyte of a woman moaning in sexual pleasure is less offensive?

personally I'm not a huge fan of bleeping out words in music vids, but this is just ridiculous, and i'm wondering how gay people on this forum feel about this, or even straight people

but perhaps I'm just making a mountain out of a homosexual molehill

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Mordeth
but perhaps I'm just making a mountain out of a homosexual molehill

No but other people probably are :rolleyes:

I personally don't find the word offensive (nor any of the many other "offensive" terms used to describe homosexual people), but I can't speak for others. Then again, you will always find someone to complain about almost everything.

swiss

This topic is gay!

Actually this reminds me of an episode of South Park, "Cartman's silly hate crime".

Prosecuting Attorney: Mr Cartman, do you know a boy by the name of 'Token'

Cartman: Uh - yes

Prosecuting Attorney: Who is Token?

Cartman: (carefully) He's a black kid that goes to my school.

Prosecuting Attorney: BLACK!? DID YOU SAY BLACK!? YOU CALLED HIM BLACK?!

Cartman: He IS black!

Prosecuting Attorney: OOH! HE SAID IT AGAIN!!

The crowd members gasp

Prosecuting Attorney: He is AFRICAN AMERICAN...

The analogy is clear. Sometimes people are afraid to call a spade a spade because of perceived 'negative' connotations. However when people begin to make PC euphanisms like "homosexual orientation" and "african american" begin to take the place of common terms then we can see that watching our language everytime we want to say something about ethnicities and sexual orientation would become very tiresome.

I think the reason why the word "gay" was cut was because quite a few people are using this word in negative contexts. I remember on one occassion I was playing on a radox server, and posted a message along the lines of "that warning about homophobic comments is gay! ", hoping that people would appreciate the irony of that statement..... nope .

lordsippa

<AHEM>
"GLB"

go on. What do those letters stand for?

Yurmasyurda

Depends on how people use it spose, just like any other word, being categorised is a pain in the bojanglies though. Just like what religion are you? My answer is usually go **** yourself

Why does it matter? Give me goddarn reasons?

sceptre

Originally posted by swiss
However when people begin to make PC euphanisms like "homosexual orientation" and "african american" begin to take the place of common terms then we can see that watching our language everytime we want to say something about ethnicities and sexual orientation would become very tiresome.

Too right. Brings to mind when a journalist welcomed Nelson Mandela to the US, referring to him as an African American:D

Personally, if a word is being used in general to describe a particular community (gay people, black people, Arab people, whatever) and they themselves find that term offensive, I don't have a problem with the stopping of its use - sometimes with one exception - often the use of the term in a particular context can satirise people who hate that community**.


**For example:

it's probably not that MTV think that gay people will be offended by the use of the term "gay" as part of a broadcast music video. They're obviously trying to protect the honest Godfearing folk by dropping any reference to those evil faggots. (Or perhaps not).

Probably not news to most, but the term "gay" in a sexual context far predates its use to describe homosexuals. It's had quite a long history.

Talliesin

I much prefer the word queer.
Queer == not the norm. And since the norm as far as societal values is pretty ****ed up I'm happy to be queer.

BTW. Gay was considered offensive for a while, but then everyone forgot it meant "prostitute" and it stopped being considered negative.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

gay meant prostitute?

you sure bout this?

Talliesin

Yes. Gay was a slang term for prostitute. Later it became more specificly a slang term for male prostitute. Later still it would be used as a term for homosexual males (originally as a term of abuse, associating the said homosexual male with prostitution, later with less malice).

So at the point in time when gay started being used as a term for homosexual men it was offensive in intent. That was some time ago though, and the etymology is unknown to most who use it.

There is a difference of course between "no, I don't think it's likely he fancies her, for one thing he's gay" and "you are gay fagot, queer ****" (with the apparantly compulsory lack of grammar and inability to spell any word longer than 5 letters)

pepsiman

Originally posted by Talliesin
Yes. Gay was a slang term for prostitute. Later it became more specificly a slang term for male prostitute.

A long time ago, when I learnt English (as my second language) I was taught that "gay" means happy, or merry.

Later I learnt that "gay" would also fit as a term describing myself. Where I am from, "queer" is a much more negative word than "gay". Thus, I'd prefer to be called gay over queer.

I had a look at in my dictionary:

From that I read that "queer" is "used as a disparaging term for a homosexual person" while "gay" is "a person whose sexual orientation is to persons of the same sex".

See for yourself : Queer - Gay

My 2c?!

Shinji

From that I read that "queer" is "used as a disparaging term for a homosexual person" while "gay" is "a person whose sexual orientation is to persons of the same sex".

A term is only disparaging if it's said in a disparaging way. No word is offensive in and of itself, but the context in which it is said can easily make it so.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, I love you queers

Talliesin

Your dictionary definition includes in it's usage note:

A reclaimed word is a word that was formerly used solely as a slur but that has been semantically overturned by members of the maligned group, who use it as a term of defiant pride

Well one thing about Queer is it's more inclusive. I'm queer but I'm not gay (I'm bi, I'm also grumpy so the old definition doesn't fit me either ).

"Queer" does have more of an edge to it, but that works in more than one way, and has been used by those queers who don't believe that the gay community should just be assimilated into the mainstream, but rather that our experiences can inform the mainstream and improve it. As such since the eighties "gay" tended to be used by liberals and "queer" by radicals. Hence we have "Queer Theory" used more often than "Gay Theory".

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

good god I hadn't realised people had put this much thought into it all..

logic1

This all sounds very gay.

.logic.

DeVore

Since I work with Talliesin he can confirm that I rarely watch my language around him. I frequently refer to things I dont like as "ghey!". To me its a different word...

If I say that a lame computer program is ghey, I dont mean that it fancies OTHER lame computer programs...

Different spelling... different meaning... HEY GUESS WHAT... DIFFERENT WORDS!

I will admit that I will use the term gay/queer/**** to annoy those jock types for whom its about the worst thing you can call them. Call me perverse but it adds a certain spice and humour to it for me when I can get a rise out of them with a reference that *should* be inoffensive except that their own prejudice makes it so!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH... theres something very Bill Hicks about that, that tickles my funny bone.

When I worked in the States in my early 20's I worked closely with a black guy who I avoided calling black out of ignorance (Ireland being monocultural at that time!).
One day I was asked where he was and I pointed at a group of my work mates ... the person asked me which he was and since he was the only black guy I said "he's the black guy".

Later my colleague came over and said "uhh, I heard what you said about me there and I'm frankly disgusted"... he went on to give out **** to me about the use of the term etc ...as I just wanted the ground to open up and swallow me whole. (Hey! I was 22! What did I know!). Anyway after a minute or two of this (and me apologising profusely) he broke up laughing and told me that I'd been avoiding the term for the entire time I'd been there.
he did the whole "you know it wouldnt come as a SURPRISE to me" routine but the last thing he said to me floored my immature mind. "You know, given the choice, I'd RATHER be black then white.".

Most Irish people that I've talked to about this still have a "lets be fair to them, its not their fault" tone in the background. I think its the same for homosexuality...

DeV.

De Rebel

DeV thats a very good post.

Most of those words are harmless, and like Swiss says, I find those PC phrases far more offensive. They have a nasty "lets not call a shovel a shovel, lets tone down this unacceptabel thing" kind of feel about them, kinda like knitted wooly covers that certain people put over toilet rolls.

I have no problem being called a gay, queer, **** or whatever, if its said in a reasonable tone - its what I am. I do however object to having some guy call me a stinking lousy gay **** while standing on my head while his mate does ten grand's worth of damage to my teeth just off o'connell street.

its really a matter of context, attitude and intent. i have no problem with the word gay. i sometimes have a problem with the way people say it.

Sangre

Originally posted by De Rebel


I have no problem being called a gay, queer, ****

Hmmm thats strange becuase I would always associate '****' with an offensive meaning and therefore would never use it to describe someone. Buts thats just me

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Sangre
Hmmm thats strange becuase I would always associate '****' with an offensive meaning and therefore would never use it to describe someone. Buts thats just me

Context. It's all about context.

Typedef

Any term can be offensive.

Sometimes, even a phrase or conjunction of words used in the right way, can be extremely offensive, when well chosen, even though, were you to examine what was said, you would be hard pushed to find 'anything' offensive in the words themselves.

Sometimes it's more what isn't said, or 'how' something is said that can be so very cutting.

Calling someone queer or **** reflects on the level of intellegence of the person using the phrase, the very best insulting people are insulting, without ever crossing any of the broadly defined lines of social decorum paradigms.

Sangre

Originally posted by BuffyBot
Context. It's all about context.

Unless its in LOTR, I always associate it with an insult, probably beacuse as DeV said earlier I go to a jock/rugger school.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Sangre
Unless its in LOTR, I always associate it with an insult, probably beacuse as DeV said earlier I go to a jock/rugger school.

Perhaps because I went to one of the worst schools in the country and got called a lot worse, it doesn't effect me

DeadBankClerk

Homer:
They're embarrassing me....they're embarrassing America!
They turned the navy into a floating joke!
They ruined all our best names like Bruce and Lance and Julien....
Those were the toughest names we had. Now they're just, uh....

John Waters:
Queer?

Homer:
Yeah....
And that's another thing.
I resent you people using that word!
That's our word for making fun of you! We NEED it!

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