The Shannon Anti-War Camp needs your help!!!

Cork

Madeline Albright - US Ambassadorto the UN in 1996 (Responding to the Deaths of 560,000 childern in Iraq)

Where does Saddam get money for his army & his palaces?

Has not the food for oil programme been working?

If there are protests in Iraq - Security forces can shoot 95% of protestors and keep the remaining 5% for interogation.

This was pointed out on the Vincent Browne Radio show.

If the people protesting in Shannon had a vote in the last US election -

Would they have voted for Ralph nder - thus depriving Al Gore of victory?

It is the one thing that the Green/Environmentalist movement find it hard to face up to.

JustHalf

Camp it up!

There is on thing to say on this: the bear will not be stopped by simply attacking its footprints. Which is what protesting about the Shannon situation is.

Go to the source.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
If the people protesting in Shannon had a vote in the last US election -

Would they have voted for Ralph nder - thus depriving Al Gore of victory?

They might have. And they might not have. And it wouldn't have mattered that much with all those elderly Jewish ladies in Palm Beach voting for Pat Buchanan (whether they realised it of corse is another matter - Buchanan said there was "no way in hell those Jews voted for (him)". And it's irrelevant to anything relevant - they don't have a vote in a US election and if they did their vote would be theirs to do with as they please. And before you come back with the pithy response of "people in Iraq don't have a free vote blah blah", yeah, we all know that.

Cork

And it's irrelevant to anything relevant

I agree - Bush's election is water under the bridge.

the EU pays the same price for oil as the US.

It is in Europes strategic interests to make sure - the oil price is pretty stable.

Western Society depends upon this.

Hitting out a GW Bush for defending western interests while we all enjoy the fruits of western life is crazy.

Borzoi

Originally posted by Snowball

Also, in my opinion, we as a nation should not be helping another nation that is caring out a war against another country...

Once again it has to be pointed out:

The US is not at war with Iraq

It may go to war in the future or it may not. It may also attack with the santion of the UN, an international body that Ireland is a member and honour bound to support.

However there is no war (yet:D )

Snowball

Originally posted by JustHalf
Camp it up!

There is on thing to say on this: the bear will not be stopped by simply attacking its footprints. Which is what protesting about the Shannon situation is.

Go to the source.

hmmmm.... nope. Comments like that are not valid Come on. One-liners with no points what so ever?
What do our wise chief mod think? Does he have anything constructive?
SO u say that protesting about Shannon is pointless, fine. why and what do u think that they could do? Bring it to the source? Yes, lets, the more that 100,000 people in Ireland (who can all afford the flights, accommodation and expenses to go to America to protest at the White House, I mean, what a grand for a day or two, yip I have that in my back pocket), all go to the states and protest...... and if that’s not what u mean then what?

Originally posted by Cork
I agree - Bush's election is water under the bridge.

the EU pays the same price for oil as the US.

It is in Europes strategic interests to make sure - the oil price is pretty stable.

Western Society depends upon this.

Hitting out a GW Bush for defending western interests while we all enjoy the fruits of western life is crazy.

Again u seem to fail to see the big picture again. Bush is in no way defending the western interests, he is defending his own.

If the American's had not interfered in every major conflict around the world well then I doubt that anyone would have flown a plain into their buildings.



Anyways, What r the list of wars the US army has been OFFICIALY (or at least widely known about, no conservancies guys and gals) involved in or started???

- Korea
- Vietnam
- Cuba
- Venezuela
- ????

Snowball

Originally posted by Borzoi
Once again it has to be pointed out:

The US is not at war with Iraq

It may go to war in the future or it may not. It may also attack with the santion of the UN, an international body that Ireland is a member and honour bound to support.

However there is no war (yet:D )

Id Iraq had 300,000 troops surounding the States do u think that Bush would take that as an act of war?

MrPudding

Originally posted by Snowball


If the American's had not interfered in every major conflict around the world well then I doubt that anyone would have flown a plain into their buildings.



Anyways, What r the list of wars the US army has been OFFICIALY (or at least widely known about, no conservancies guys and gals) involved in or started???

- Korea
- Vietnam
- Cuba
- Venezuela
- ????

Did you ever hear of a little squabble called World War 2? War has it's place. Some people simply will not listen to diplomats, some people only understand one thing and that is violence. We can all be cynical about the reasons for this war (if it happens) and there are some major risks involved (like the destabilisation of the entire region) but if, even by chance, it improves the lot of the people of Iraq I am for it.

My understanding of the sanctions imposed on Iraq are that they are allowed to sell enough oil to feed and take care of the population. The omly problem is the money is being spent on SAMs and shiney new palaces. Is this true?

Snowball

Originally posted by MrPudding
Did you ever hear of a little squabble called World War 2? War has it's place. Some people simply will not listen to diplomats, some people only understand one thing and that is violence. We can all be cynical about the reasons for this war (if it happens) and there are some major risks involved (like the destabilisation of the entire region) but if, even by chance, it improves the lot of the people of Iraq I am for it.

My understanding of the sanctions imposed on Iraq are that they are allowed to sell enough oil to feed and take care of the population. The omly problem is the money is being spent on SAMs and shiney new palaces. Is this true?

I never said that war had not got its place my point is that the US have been sticking their nose in where it does not belong and not that someone had bit back they are pissed

scojones

I have family in Shannon so i'm a bit nervous of an attack, yah i'm paranoid. I'd like to see your views if Shannon was attacked - after the attack happend of course.

Occidental

Originally posted by Snowball
If germany joins spain will prob join in and so will Italy (which has the biggest air force in the world). If they all join forces Russa, china and so on will join and the US will not ba able to take them all on.


Just another thing. If you are going to post on Boards you might want to resarch you answers if you dont want to get put down. People on boards have always had the time to look up what they are talking about and with the internet being so easy to access you have no excuse. I doubt that the treatment that you are getting is personal but more likly due to the fact that your answers seem hasty and you cant seem to back up your FACTS. It might help you to think a bit before you post.

So let's see. You tell us that Italy has the biggest Air Force in the world and then give us a paragraph on checking your facts before posting them.

mayhem#

I flew out of Shannon myself last Sunday. The departure lounge was full of American military personel.
Had a good chat with some of them and wished them best of luck.
These people don´t make policies, they are the ones that will probably put their lives on the line in the not so distant future.
When you want to protest why do´n´t you **** off a bit and set up camp outside the US embassy in Dublin?
The troops being shipped across are going to have a hard enough time as it is. The last thing they need is a bunch of complete **** protesting outside and generally stinking up the environment...

E.

DannyD

We drove from Cork on Sunday to visit the peace camp and show support.The people at the camp were very friendly unlike mayhem above who labels them "****".The peacecamp doesn't resort to childish name calling and neither do I.

**** protesting outside and generally stinking up the environment...

Shannon airport pours polution into the Shannon estuary. The peace camp recycles everything

Gandalf , how about removing the post containing the abusive language ?Thanks.

Shannon airport pours polution into the Shannon estuary. The peace camp recycles everything

huh? how does that work?

Borzoi

Originally posted by Snowball
Id Iraq had 300,000 troops surounding the States do u think that Bush would take that as an act of war?

Given that large scale Soviet and NATO maneouvers regularly exceeded that amount, and no one went to war probably not. Troop manouvers and buil ups can be seen as preparation for war, they can also be seen as sabre rattling - reforcing the threat potential.

Snowball, I fully endorse your right to protest at the troop movements - but the rhetoric you sometimes use can invalidate the cogent part of your argument.

As a matter of record, I fully support the use of Shannon and the troop movement, and I hope the extra forces in the Gulf, convince Saddam of the seriousness of the US, and that he backs done in the face of it and that there is no war.

convince Saddam of the seriousness of the US, and that he backs done in the face of it and that there is no war.

umm,, I thought this was a war of Bush's making? Saddam as far as i'm aware has not made an aggressive move against America. So he should back down, and let a foreign power invade his country ?

Snowball

Originally posted by Occidental
So let's see. You tell us that Italy has the biggest Air Force in the world and then give us a paragraph on checking your facts before posting them.

I am flattered to think that just because I say something that you think that it is true. I thought that they had but if u have evidence to the contrary, please.... It may be that they have the biggest one in Europe and I got my wires crossed. Sorry for making one mistake but I am not to surprised to see that you prefer to nit pick since u seem to not have a point to make.

Originally posted by mayhem#
I flew out of Shannon myself last Sunday. The departure lounge was full of American military personnel.
Had a good chat with some of them and wished them best of luck.
These people don’t make policies, they are the ones that will probably put their lives on the line in the not so distant future.
When you want to protest why do´n´t you **** off a bit and set up camp outside the US embassy in Dublin?
The troops being shipped across are going to have a hard enough time as it is. The last thing they need is a bunch of complete **** protesting outside and generally stinking up the environment...

E.

So u did not take the time to be objective and visit the camp which is not vary far from the Airport. The camp is clean, Hygienic and al their food is cooked off site at a house near by. You are posting about a place u never took the time to visit when if u stood at the main doors of the Airport u could have probably pissed that far.
I also have admiration to anyone who would give their life for a cause they believe in and I do not have anything against the troops or America. Nether (I am led to believe by the people I have "taken the time" to talk to) does anyone at the Shannon Peace camp. The protest is to the Irish government so that they stop the allowing the troops and plains in (something which they might actually do by the looks of things) and to the American government in regard to the fact that some people believe that they are wrong to go to war.

Cork

Edited in error - Sorry Cork

No Saddam just uses chemical weapons on his own people. Just as the Batman Movies - Batman (Bush) gets the better press.

Who nominated america to be the country to launch attacks on another country? If the world thinks so bad of Saddam using chemical weapons, indict him for crimes against humanity.(at least then, it wouldn't be one country making a violent decision) I don't see the validity of american reason to invade iraq.

Originally posted by Snowball
OK, there seems to be a lot of muppetry around.... Morphéus, Man, daveirl and the rest of the ppl who, whether u r just stirring the pot for the sake of it, slagging because u don't see the point in the protests or because u think that its all silly (or whatever u want to say), r posting welcome notes to the US troops... If u support them fine but the least u could do explain ur point and position, don’t just insult or make fun of ppl and try to make their points invalid with out expressing ur point (if u actually have one) because being constructive is not that hard or bad. Guys, try to join in on the discussion not ruin it.
But for thoughts that are actually interested in trying to do something so help so that Bush does not end up killing 1000's of innocent people in a war that it's sole porous is to gain control of the second largest oil field in the world read this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SAY NO TO WAR IN IRAQ

Every day brings a new development that seems to bring the world closer to war in Iraq. Surprisingly, one major force for peace could be the United Nations Security Council. Surprisingly, because the Bush administration originally seemed to have little respect or time for the United Nations. However, polls show that the US public, like most people around the world, places more faith in the United Nations than do Bush and his oil industry supporters.

So the Bush administration may need to go back to the UN Security Council before beginning a war in Iraq. If it does, Greenpeace believes that the Security Council should say No to a war in Iraq. There are many reasons for this, but one is that Iraq is not currently threatening the United States, and under international law, the United States cannot claim legitimate self-defence.

But will the UN Security Council stand up to the Bush administration? In this time of global crisis, please write to the UN ambassadors that sit on the Security Council and ask them to uphold international law and refuse to approve a war in Iraq. You can use this link:

Send your oppinion to the US security councel

To find more information and more to do, please take a look at this article:

More info on this subject from Greenpeace

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You can use the first link to send a message to the UN ambassadors to express your feelings about Bushes attempt to wage war on the Middle East.

Just in relation to this,firstly I give my point of view as you do yours.The Shannon peace protesters are entitled to protest, but aren't mindfull of the impression it gives, to an administration and country that provides so many jobs here.
someone else here replied to that notion, that, U.S companies would be behaving in a facist way if they were to pull out of Ireland just because We denied their countries forces permission to re-fuel.
Perception is everything. Actually I have no quibble with the Shannon protest and peoples right to protest there, in my view, though if the U.S were refused permission , it *might* harm their view of us. I say this because , we as a nation usually go to the U.S with our begging boul to encourage, U.S multi nationals to set up here in the first place.
The same multi nationals by their very nature depend on the U.S congress and President et al via lobbying, campaign contributions and otherwise for support.

I actually admire, the protesters , by and large for the stance, that they take( with the exception of vandalism ) and for their committment to their cause, but don't agree with them-thats democracy.

I've no doubt that,Bertie Ahern is being pragmatic, in his stance on this issue as he knows the welcome his begging boul gets in the U.S, while at the same time he and the authorities down in Shannon aren't doing a Sadam themselves by allowing the protest to continue.
mm

gandalf

Firstly I'd like to apologse to Cork, in trying to reply to his post I accidently edited his post and deleted its content.

.....A US plane was damaged down there. This was a disgrace. The person who did it should be charged and let justice take its course.

Maybe an alternative view is she is enforcing our laws the only way she can as our government is incapable of doing that job.

No one is searching these planes to make sure they are not violating our laws and constitution. What weapons are those planes carrying. Are they carrying US WMD's? If they are carry US WMD would you approve Cork ?

If the US attack unilaterially then we have aided an illegal (under international law) attack on a sovereign nation (yes thats Iraq). Cork do you believe that the law is only applicable to certain people/Countries that some people/Countries should be exempt from adhering to them ? From your attitude on here I think you already do !!!!!

Gandalf.

mayhem#

Originally posted by DannyD
We drove from Cork on Sunday to visit the peace camp and show support.The people at the camp were very friendly unlike mayhem above who labels them "****".The peacecamp doesn't resort to childish name calling and neither do I.


Shannon airport pours polution into the Shannon estuary. The peace camp recycles everything

Gandalf , how about removing the post containing the abusive language ?Thanks.

I'm sorry for calling you people ****. I was wrong.
You lot would probably consider **** a selfish act and therefore un-acceptable.

E.

mayhem#

Originally posted by Snowball

So u did not take the time to be objective and visit the camp which is not vary far from the Airport. The camp is clean, Hygienic and al their food is cooked off site at a house near by. You are posting about a place u never took the time to visit when if u stood at the main doors of the Airport u could have probably pissed that far.

Why should I visit the camp?
I couldn't avoid driving past the eyesore on my way in and out of the airport. And believe me that is as close as I want to come to the place. Oh in case people where wondering who that person was driving past and giving you lot the finger, that was me...

I also have admiration to anyone who would give their life for a cause they believe in and I do not have anything against the troops or America. Nether (I am led to believe by the people I have "taken the time" to talk to) does anyone at the Shannon Peace camp. The protest is to the Irish government so that they stop the allowing the troops and plains in (something which they might actually do by the looks of things) and to the American government in regard to the fact that some people believe that they are wrong to go to war.

Why don't you protest somewhere more effectfull like outside the US embassy or one of the government buildings?

E.

DannyD

If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's pre-emptive non-aggression, bomb Iraq.
To prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's all the proof we need,
If they're not there, they must be there,
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
And he tried to kill your dad,
Bomb Iraq.

If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.

Occidental

Originally posted by Snowball
I am flattered to think that just because I say something that you think that it is true. I thought that they had but if u have evidence to the contrary, please.... It may be that they have the biggest one in Europe and I got my wires crossed. Sorry for making one mistake but I am not to surprised to see that you prefer to nit pick since u seem to not have a point to make.

Snowball, I don't take anything you say as true, even when you write FACT after it. I do however think you should follow the advice you seem happy enough to give to Cork. Instead of "nit picking", why don't you consider it educational. BTW Italy also doesn't have the largest Air Force in Europe.

If you would like a contribution, why not try picketing the IAA in Dublin. The IAA are responsible for everything that flies over Ireland as well as everything that lands here. The amount of US military flights which pass overhead Ireland everyday, dwarfs the number that land here. You may also be suprised to hear that the IAA has no idea what is carried on these flights, although you can be fairly sure it's a damn sight more interesting than anything that lands at Shannon. Do you think the US would be more annoyed at loosing landing rights at Shannon, or being denied the right to transit Irish airspace.

Cork

Originally posted by klaz
Who nominated america to be the country to launch attacks on another country? If the world thinks so bad of Saddam using chemical weapons, indict him for crimes against humanity.(at least then, it wouldn't be one country making a violent decision) I don't see the validity of american reason to invade iraq.

Iraq has not actively supported the UN resolution. Hence UN inspectors having to go around to find things.

What has happened to Saddams waeapons?

Cork

Firstly I'd like to apologse to Cork, in trying to reply to his post I accidently edited his post and deleted its content.

Thats OK.

But do you think Bush will link Al Queda with Saddam?

Will he play this ace card?

Iraq has not actively supported the UN resolution. Hence UN inspectors having to go around to find things.

And thats why america is going to invade Iraq? UN Resolutions are to be backed by the UN as a whole, not by a single country.

Originally posted by klaz
And thats why america is going to invade Iraq? UN Resolutions are to be backed by the UN as a whole, not by a single country.

I agree, to an extent,except that perhaps, the U.S and the U.K may want to invade Iraq without the U.N as they may perceive, waiting for every interest on the UN Security council to agree on action might take too long.
Too long that is as to prevent, the U.S or the U.K from protecting their interests.
As was pointed out on this board before, there are quite a few members of the UNSC who perceive, that they have more to gain,than lose, financially,( probably in the short term...although they don't see it that way) by blocking UN approved action on Sadam.
mm

bonkey

Mayhem - quit with the abuse. You've been around long enough to know better.

DannyD - if you have a problem with a post, report it properly. There's even a link at the end of each post for it. And we didnt really need that song posted. Its hardly relevant to the discussion.

jc