The Shannon Anti-War Camp needs your help!!!

gandalf · 29-01-2003 2:26pm

Firstly I'd like to apologse to Cork, in trying to reply to his post I accidently edited his post and deleted its content.

.....A US plane was damaged down there. This was a disgrace. The person who did it should be charged and let justice take its course.

Maybe an alternative view is she is enforcing our laws the only way she can as our government is incapable of doing that job.

No one is searching these planes to make sure they are not violating our laws and constitution. What weapons are those planes carrying. Are they carrying US WMD's? If they are carry US WMD would you approve Cork ?

If the US attack unilaterially then we have aided an illegal (under international law) attack on a sovereign nation (yes thats Iraq). Cork do you believe that the law is only applicable to certain people/Countries that some people/Countries should be exempt from adhering to them ? From your attitude on here I think you already do !!!!!

Gandalf.

mayhem# · 29-01-2003 3:13pm

Originally posted by DannyD
We drove from Cork on Sunday to visit the peace camp and show support.The people at the camp were very friendly unlike mayhem above who labels them "****".The peacecamp doesn't resort to childish name calling and neither do I.

Shannon airport pours polution into the Shannon estuary. The peace camp recycles everything

Gandalf , how about removing the post containing the abusive language ?Thanks.

I'm sorry for calling you people ****. I was wrong.
You lot would probably consider **** a selfish act and therefore un-acceptable.

E.

mayhem# · 29-01-2003 3:22pm

Originally posted by Snowball

So u did not take the time to be objective and visit the camp which is not vary far from the Airport. The camp is clean, Hygienic and al their food is cooked off site at a house near by. You are posting about a place u never took the time to visit when if u stood at the main doors of the Airport u could have probably pissed that far.

Why should I visit the camp?
I couldn't avoid driving past the eyesore on my way in and out of the airport. And believe me that is as close as I want to come to the place. Oh in case people where wondering who that person was driving past and giving you lot the finger, that was me...

I also have admiration to anyone who would give their life for a cause they believe in and I do not have anything against the troops or America. Nether (I am led to believe by the people I have "taken the time" to talk to) does anyone at the Shannon Peace camp. The protest is to the Irish government so that they stop the allowing the troops and plains in (something which they might actually do by the looks of things) and to the American government in regard to the fact that some people believe that they are wrong to go to war.

Why don't you protest somewhere more effectfull like outside the US embassy or one of the government buildings?

E.

DannyD · 29-01-2003 3:48pm

If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's pre-emptive non-aggression, bomb Iraq.
To prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's all the proof we need,
If they're not there, they must be there,
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
And he tried to kill your dad,
Bomb Iraq.

If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.

Occidental · 29-01-2003 5:07pm

Originally posted by Snowball
I am flattered to think that just because I say something that you think that it is true. I thought that they had but if u have evidence to the contrary, please.... It may be that they have the biggest one in Europe and I got my wires crossed. Sorry for making one mistake but I am not to surprised to see that you prefer to nit pick since u seem to not have a point to make.

Snowball, I don't take anything you say as true, even when you write FACT after it. I do however think you should follow the advice you seem happy enough to give to Cork. Instead of "nit picking", why don't you consider it educational. BTW Italy also doesn't have the largest Air Force in Europe.

If you would like a contribution, why not try picketing the IAA in Dublin. The IAA are responsible for everything that flies over Ireland as well as everything that lands here. The amount of US military flights which pass overhead Ireland everyday, dwarfs the number that land here. You may also be suprised to hear that the IAA has no idea what is carried on these flights, although you can be fairly sure it's a damn sight more interesting than anything that lands at Shannon. Do you think the US would be more annoyed at loosing landing rights at Shannon, or being denied the right to transit Irish airspace.

Cork · 29-01-2003 5:13pm

Originally posted by klaz
Who nominated america to be the country to launch attacks on another country? If the world thinks so bad of Saddam using chemical weapons, indict him for crimes against humanity.(at least then, it wouldn't be one country making a violent decision) I don't see the validity of american reason to invade iraq.

Iraq has not actively supported the UN resolution. Hence UN inspectors having to go around to find things.

What has happened to Saddams waeapons?

Cork · 29-01-2003 5:15pm

Firstly I'd like to apologse to Cork, in trying to reply to his post I accidently edited his post and deleted its content.

Thats OK.

But do you think Bush will link Al Queda with Saddam?

Will he play this ace card?

29-01-2003 5:59pm

Iraq has not actively supported the UN resolution. Hence UN inspectors having to go around to find things.

And thats why america is going to invade Iraq? UN Resolutions are to be backed by the UN as a whole, not by a single country.

29-01-2003 7:07pm

Originally posted by klaz
And thats why america is going to invade Iraq? UN Resolutions are to be backed by the UN as a whole, not by a single country.

I agree, to an extent,except that perhaps, the U.S and the U.K may want to invade Iraq without the U.N as they may perceive, waiting for every interest on the UN Security council to agree on action might take too long.
Too long that is as to prevent, the U.S or the U.K from protecting their interests.
As was pointed out on this board before, there are quite a few members of the UNSC who perceive, that they have more to gain,than lose, financially,( probably in the short term...although they don't see it that way) by blocking UN approved action on Sadam.
mm

bonkey · 29-01-2003 7:13pm

Mayhem - quit with the abuse. You've been around long enough to know better.

DannyD - if you have a problem with a post, report it properly. There's even a link at the end of each post for it. And we didnt really need that song posted. Its hardly relevant to the discussion.

jc

29-01-2003 7:23pm

Gardaí said up to €500,000 worth of damage was done to the plane - to the nose, the nose wheel, the hydrolics and the electrics and that the cost of the damage was likely to be revised upwards.

€500,000 damage to a plane and with a hatchet!
Thats the kind of bad publicity, that does harm to a protest!

And adds fuel to the probability of a poor perception of this protest stateside.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0129/shannon.html
For the full story.
mm

gandalf · 29-01-2003 8:24pm

Originally posted by Cork
Thats OK.

But do you think Bush will link Al Queda with Saddam?

Will he play this ace card?

I believe that this is a complete red herring tbh Cork. There were reports on CNN last week (link below) trying to link the two together because this person travelled thru Iraq. If this is the kind of evidence that "President Butthead" is going to produce (obviously it will be spin doctored heavially) then there is no link at all.

Osama Bin Laden and Saddam are on totally different sides. OBL is a islamic fanatic, Saddam is a secular dictator with alot to fear from the Islamic fanatics.

Gandalf

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/23/iraq.alqaeda/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/26/time.iraq/index.html

gandalf · 29-01-2003 8:29pm

Originally posted by Man
€500,000 damage to a plane and with a hatchet!
Thats the kind of bad publicity, that does harm to a protest!

And adds fuel to the probability of a poor perception of this protest stateside.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0129/shannon.html
For the full story.
mm

Err Man I don't think the idea of this protest is to give a good impression stateside. Its to let them know we are not happy with the build up and the fact they may be ignoring our Laws and attacking a country illegally.

On a side note I reckon that 50 yr old Irish woman has done more damage to US Air Power than Saddam will do if the US do go in!!

Gandalf.

29-01-2003 9:57pm

Originally posted by gandalf
Err Man I don't think the idea of this protest is to give a good impression stateside. Its to let them know we are not happy with the build up and the fact they may be ignoring our Laws and attacking a country illegally.
Gandalf.

Oh, agreed,I know, the protesters aren't there to give a good impression stateside, I was just thinking,the protest is one thing,but the impression €500K damage on a jet leaves is defeating the purpose of a good protest.

It's very like some anti globalisation protesters, going on a vandalism rampage, it smells of " loutishism" rather than dignified protest.
To be honest, bad and all as I think that is, I was more horrified to hear, such actions being condoned by T.D!

On another side but related note, if the U.S and the U.K unilaterally decare war on Iraq, would that be illegal?
In other words,is it illegal for countries to be at war, or does that illegality have to be declared first by the UNSC via a new resolution?
There must be a convention somewhere governing this scenario, and does anyone have a link to UN regulations on it some where?
mm

Victor · 29-01-2003 9:59pm

Man, yes a war of aggression is illegal (and is one of the usual charges at a war tribunal). However, all too often "might is right" is how it is resolved.

See: http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/2001/0716cicc.htm

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList84/FBC568444422AE6C41256C68003242A2 (part in french)

http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/22_rambo.htm

http://www.esrnational.org/wardefinitions.htm

Discussion piece at: http://slate.msn.com/id/2076478/

Turner · 29-01-2003 10:49pm

Hopefully that woman will have to pay for the damage caused to the plane. Ireland has very strong links with America and for some looney to do something like that on behalf of the Irish is so annoying.

Morpheus · 30-01-2003 12:46am

PEACE PROTESTERS!!!!! <

yeah thats right they ARE PEACE PROTESTORS

yeah sure,
your not,
what you you are coming across as is the following...
anti globalisation,
anti USA,
anti west,

all u rant about is BUSH,OIL, and try to loosely tie it in with Irelands neutrality and a war in Iraq that hasnt even happened.

You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you, and were not im not a peace protestor, but i would rather a peacful solution was found, no-one likes war, but if it takes one to secure peace then thats what happens.

Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets? That is an act of war in some parts of the world.

Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground? would the peace protestors be happy? and for a flipping mental green leprechaun from the extreme ends of the gov to CONDONE it? i mean i knew our govt were mostly eegits, but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

If youve any sense, pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco, youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

:mad:

30-01-2003 8:56am

Man, I understand what you're saying but its not for america/britain to use Saddams avoidance of UN inspectors as an excuse.

If they want to invade Iraq, at least come out with a reason that directly threatens both/either of them. (the use of chemical weapons on his own people, shouldn't be valid, since thats should be a world court/UN response, for crimes against humanity, not for America to Judge & Jury)

Its not for them to split from the UN council whenever they don't like. Its flaunting the fragility of the UN, making it look like the original League of Nations.

Cork · 30-01-2003 10:32am

the use of chemical weapons on his own people, shouldn't be valid

When is the use of chemical weapons on people not valid.

Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets

This was a disgrace. The Irish people will now have to foot the bill. It shows absolutely no respect for property.

How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed

It was not peaceful. It was sheer vandalisim. Hopefully, the law and jutice will now follow on.

pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco,

I agree - I think that if they do not pack up & leave - they should be removed on security grounds.

Snowball · 30-01-2003 11:21am

Originally posted by Morphéus
You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you, and were not I’m not a peace protestor, but i would rather a peaceful solution was found, no-one likes war, but if it takes one to secure peace then that’s what happens.

Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

STFU! if u actually had a true belief you would be out there doing something to express it. That’s what the people at Shannon r doing and u have no right to insult them because you don’t have the balls to stand up for what u believe in. They should be commended!
Oh, yeah! War secures peace, yip. I mean war has always been the answer.

Originally posted by Morphéus
Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

90% of all reports of arms on the plains are coming from the staff. keep showing ppl ur ignorance on the subject.

Originally posted by Morphéus
How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground? would the peace protestors be happy? and for a flipping mental green leprechaun from the extreme ends of the gov to CONDONE it? i mean i knew our govt were mostly eegits, but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

Its not peaceful but she did what she though she should. I think she was wrong but what can you do? yes is bad that it reflects on Ireland and Ireland may have to cough up and that also sux.

Originally posted by Morphéus
If youve any sense, pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco, youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

Where did this obsession come with the camp being dirty or smelly, unhygienic or unsafe???? have any of u ppl been there? Please if u have actually been there they u can describe the camp but until there keep ur unfounded crap to ur self plz

Cork, I am sick of ur ......... ffs just stop the 1 liners plz. It does not att to the conversation at all.

scojones · 30-01-2003 11:50am

I was at the camp for a few hours. It's far from unhygenic. And the name calling contributed to - "tree huggers" and whatnot, just shows your level of immaturity. I applaude everyone at the camp for their efforts. What she did was wrong and she will be punished. We could go on for hours about how what she did was wrong and what the consequences could have been. It's over - it happend, get OVER IT.

Ill tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

No son, if they had any sense in Shannon they would extend the height of the fence. The fence is tiny, nearly anyone could climb it and once you're over there's long grass all around so all you have to do once over is hide in the grass - that's if you weren't noticed jumping it. The road going up to the airport is only a few feet from the WestAir Hanger - the hanger that the fighter jets were outside this summer. It would have been possible to throw rocks at the planes if one wanted to because they were reachable. The perimeter fence goes around one end of the industrial estate and there are holes cut all over it - anyone can climb through and get onto the runways if they want. It's just through the evergreen trees at the side of the road. The security at Shannon Airport is laughable.

Cork · 30-01-2003 12:03pm

Gardaí said up to €500,000 worth of damage was done to the plane - to the nose, the nose wheel, the hydrolics and the electrics and that the cost of the damage was likely to be revised upwards.

Let those who damaged the plane pay for their own actions.

See how much moral fibre or civic reponsibility they have.

It is the Irish government that will have to foot the bill.

It is the Irish taxpayer that will have to pay for it.

I think the person/persons who committed this vandalisim should have due process.

It had nothing to do with Peace. The US government don't give a hoot about these protesters.

Charlie Wolf on Red FM is really a breath of fresh air - when he talks about these protesters.

www.redfm.ie

gandalf · 30-01-2003 12:04pm

OK people you better stop with the rants and hysterics or I will get my asskicking boots on !!!!!

This is aiming particularly at Morphéus & Snowball.

Gandalf.

Victor · 30-01-2003 1:51pm

Originally posted by Chief---
for some looney to do something like that on behalf of the Irish is so annoying.

Who says she was doing it on anyone's behalf? I get the impression she was acting alone and was making a point of acting alone.

Originally posted by Morphéus
your not, what you you are coming across as is the following...
anti globalisation, anti USA, anti west,

Irrelevant and off topic.

Originally posted by Morphéus
You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you,

Why would they think that? Sure doesn't the government permit the planes to land, thereby disproving your point?

Originally posted by Morphéus
Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in

(1) they actually need to put in a real fence first (2) Are you suggesting that people with mental difficulties should be physically harmed?

Originally posted by Morphéus
Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets? That is an act of war in some parts of the world.

Which parts of the world would that be? Either this is (1) an act of war or (2) a crime or (3) a war crime (4) as stated by the alleged attacker "damage with lawful excuse". You are defeating your own argument by stating it is 1 and 2 at the same time (I think we can agre it isn't 3).

Originally posted by Morphéus
Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

How does this jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives "in the future"? (Whatever about the here and now). If anything she has done a service in highlighting poor security.

Originally posted by Morphéus
How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground?

I think the idea was to create as much visible damage as possible. I think the possibility of her doing damage and either the damage and /or her not being discovered were slight. And I suspect her logic was whatever risk she was taking was outweighed by the risk presented by the aircrafts' cargo.

Originally posted by Morphéus
but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

Who is "he"? And we put mental patients in hospital, criminals in prison in this country (well thats the idea anyway).

Originally posted by Morphéus
well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

And these are linked how?

Originally posted by Morphéus
The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

No they won't. The US military is self-insuring. And if you are worried about the "needy", please take into account the €1.5 per year that the government pays in transit fees for foreign military aircraft.

Originally posted by Morphéus
they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

But they would appear not to be providing the security, which they should (and charging it to airport users).

Originally posted by Morphéus
your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco,

Is it? Does one person now make a riot?

Originally posted by Morphéus
youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

O_o, big words.

gandalf · 30-01-2003 2:03pm

Closing this thread for the moment, until people cool down.

Gandalf.

DeVore · 30-01-2003 2:13pm

Originally posted by Snowball
hmmmm.... nope. Comments like that are not valid Come on. One-liners with no points what so ever?
What do our wise chief mod think? Does he have anything constructive?

DIRECTLY after this post (I mean the very next post Snowball) you posted simply:

Id Iraq had 300,000 troops surounding the States do u think that Bush would take that as an act of war?

That was the complete content of your post. Now I ask YOU if you even adher to the "rules" you seem to conveniently use for your own arguments...

I accept the right to protest and to inform others of your protest. However people WILL be civil and mature about it or they will leave this community.

This isnt a democracy, think of it as my "front room" where everyone is invited for us to have enlightened discussion... but I can ask you to leave if I see fit....

(The Mods are my bouncers.

)

DeV.

DeVore · 30-01-2003 2:30pm

I addition to this I would ask everyone to respect the right of people to free protest and to avoid calling them names. One of the DIFFERENCES between us and Iraq is that we are all ALLOWED to express different political views.

I think some of you need to sit down and think really hard about that. Particularly if you just thought "oh he doesnt mean me". I do.

Gandalf, I leave this in your capable hands man... week bans for anyone who goes into hysteronics or personal attacks.

Hush children, the adults are talking.

DeV.