The Shannon Anti-War Camp needs your help!!!

29-01-2003 8:23pm

Gardaí said up to €500,000 worth of damage was done to the plane - to the nose, the nose wheel, the hydrolics and the electrics and that the cost of the damage was likely to be revised upwards.

€500,000 damage to a plane and with a hatchet!
Thats the kind of bad publicity, that does harm to a protest!

And adds fuel to the probability of a poor perception of this protest stateside.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0129/shannon.html
For the full story.
mm

gandalf · 29-01-2003 9:24pm

Originally posted by Cork
Thats OK.

But do you think Bush will link Al Queda with Saddam?

Will he play this ace card?

I believe that this is a complete red herring tbh Cork. There were reports on CNN last week (link below) trying to link the two together because this person travelled thru Iraq. If this is the kind of evidence that "President Butthead" is going to produce (obviously it will be spin doctored heavially) then there is no link at all.

Osama Bin Laden and Saddam are on totally different sides. OBL is a islamic fanatic, Saddam is a secular dictator with alot to fear from the Islamic fanatics.

Gandalf

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/23/iraq.alqaeda/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/26/time.iraq/index.html

gandalf · 29-01-2003 9:29pm

Originally posted by Man
€500,000 damage to a plane and with a hatchet!
Thats the kind of bad publicity, that does harm to a protest!

And adds fuel to the probability of a poor perception of this protest stateside.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0129/shannon.html
For the full story.
mm

Err Man I don't think the idea of this protest is to give a good impression stateside. Its to let them know we are not happy with the build up and the fact they may be ignoring our Laws and attacking a country illegally.

On a side note I reckon that 50 yr old Irish woman has done more damage to US Air Power than Saddam will do if the US do go in!!

Gandalf.

29-01-2003 10:57pm

Originally posted by gandalf
Err Man I don't think the idea of this protest is to give a good impression stateside. Its to let them know we are not happy with the build up and the fact they may be ignoring our Laws and attacking a country illegally.
Gandalf.

Oh, agreed,I know, the protesters aren't there to give a good impression stateside, I was just thinking,the protest is one thing,but the impression €500K damage on a jet leaves is defeating the purpose of a good protest.

It's very like some anti globalisation protesters, going on a vandalism rampage, it smells of " loutishism" rather than dignified protest.
To be honest, bad and all as I think that is, I was more horrified to hear, such actions being condoned by T.D!

On another side but related note, if the U.S and the U.K unilaterally decare war on Iraq, would that be illegal?
In other words,is it illegal for countries to be at war, or does that illegality have to be declared first by the UNSC via a new resolution?
There must be a convention somewhere governing this scenario, and does anyone have a link to UN regulations on it some where?
mm

Victor · 29-01-2003 10:59pm

Man, yes a war of aggression is illegal (and is one of the usual charges at a war tribunal). However, all too often "might is right" is how it is resolved.

See: http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/2001/0716cicc.htm

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList84/FBC568444422AE6C41256C68003242A2 (part in french)

http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/22_rambo.htm

http://www.esrnational.org/wardefinitions.htm

Discussion piece at: http://slate.msn.com/id/2076478/

Turner · 29-01-2003 11:49pm

Hopefully that woman will have to pay for the damage caused to the plane. Ireland has very strong links with America and for some looney to do something like that on behalf of the Irish is so annoying.

Morpheus · 30-01-2003 1:46am

PEACE PROTESTERS!!!!! <

yeah thats right they ARE PEACE PROTESTORS

yeah sure,
your not,
what you you are coming across as is the following...
anti globalisation,
anti USA,
anti west,

all u rant about is BUSH,OIL, and try to loosely tie it in with Irelands neutrality and a war in Iraq that hasnt even happened.

You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you, and were not im not a peace protestor, but i would rather a peacful solution was found, no-one likes war, but if it takes one to secure peace then thats what happens.

Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets? That is an act of war in some parts of the world.

Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground? would the peace protestors be happy? and for a flipping mental green leprechaun from the extreme ends of the gov to CONDONE it? i mean i knew our govt were mostly eegits, but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

If youve any sense, pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco, youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

:mad:

30-01-2003 9:56am

Man, I understand what you're saying but its not for america/britain to use Saddams avoidance of UN inspectors as an excuse.

If they want to invade Iraq, at least come out with a reason that directly threatens both/either of them. (the use of chemical weapons on his own people, shouldn't be valid, since thats should be a world court/UN response, for crimes against humanity, not for America to Judge & Jury)

Its not for them to split from the UN council whenever they don't like. Its flaunting the fragility of the UN, making it look like the original League of Nations.

Cork · 30-01-2003 11:32am

the use of chemical weapons on his own people, shouldn't be valid

When is the use of chemical weapons on people not valid.

Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets

This was a disgrace. The Irish people will now have to foot the bill. It shows absolutely no respect for property.

How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed

It was not peaceful. It was sheer vandalisim. Hopefully, the law and jutice will now follow on.

pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco,

I agree - I think that if they do not pack up & leave - they should be removed on security grounds.

Snowball · 30-01-2003 12:21pm

Originally posted by Morphéus
You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you, and were not I’m not a peace protestor, but i would rather a peaceful solution was found, no-one likes war, but if it takes one to secure peace then that’s what happens.

Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

STFU! if u actually had a true belief you would be out there doing something to express it. That’s what the people at Shannon r doing and u have no right to insult them because you don’t have the balls to stand up for what u believe in. They should be commended!
Oh, yeah! War secures peace, yip. I mean war has always been the answer.

Originally posted by Morphéus
Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

90% of all reports of arms on the plains are coming from the staff. keep showing ppl ur ignorance on the subject.

Originally posted by Morphéus
How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground? would the peace protestors be happy? and for a flipping mental green leprechaun from the extreme ends of the gov to CONDONE it? i mean i knew our govt were mostly eegits, but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

Its not peaceful but she did what she though she should. I think she was wrong but what can you do? yes is bad that it reflects on Ireland and Ireland may have to cough up and that also sux.

Originally posted by Morphéus
If youve any sense, pack your smelly tents and go home. your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco, youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

Where did this obsession come with the camp being dirty or smelly, unhygienic or unsafe???? have any of u ppl been there? Please if u have actually been there they u can describe the camp but until there keep ur unfounded crap to ur self plz

Cork, I am sick of ur ......... ffs just stop the 1 liners plz. It does not att to the conversation at all.

scojones · 30-01-2003 12:50pm

I was at the camp for a few hours. It's far from unhygenic. And the name calling contributed to - "tree huggers" and whatnot, just shows your level of immaturity. I applaude everyone at the camp for their efforts. What she did was wrong and she will be punished. We could go on for hours about how what she did was wrong and what the consequences could have been. It's over - it happend, get OVER IT.

Ill tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in.

No son, if they had any sense in Shannon they would extend the height of the fence. The fence is tiny, nearly anyone could climb it and once you're over there's long grass all around so all you have to do once over is hide in the grass - that's if you weren't noticed jumping it. The road going up to the airport is only a few feet from the WestAir Hanger - the hanger that the fighter jets were outside this summer. It would have been possible to throw rocks at the planes if one wanted to because they were reachable. The perimeter fence goes around one end of the industrial estate and there are holes cut all over it - anyone can climb through and get onto the runways if they want. It's just through the evergreen trees at the side of the road. The security at Shannon Airport is laughable.

Cork · 30-01-2003 1:03pm

Gardaí said up to €500,000 worth of damage was done to the plane - to the nose, the nose wheel, the hydrolics and the electrics and that the cost of the damage was likely to be revised upwards.

Let those who damaged the plane pay for their own actions.

See how much moral fibre or civic reponsibility they have.

It is the Irish government that will have to foot the bill.

It is the Irish taxpayer that will have to pay for it.

I think the person/persons who committed this vandalisim should have due process.

It had nothing to do with Peace. The US government don't give a hoot about these protesters.

Charlie Wolf on Red FM is really a breath of fresh air - when he talks about these protesters.

www.redfm.ie

gandalf · 30-01-2003 1:04pm

OK people you better stop with the rants and hysterics or I will get my asskicking boots on !!!!!

This is aiming particularly at Morphéus & Snowball.

Gandalf.

Victor · 30-01-2003 2:51pm

Originally posted by Chief---
for some looney to do something like that on behalf of the Irish is so annoying.

Who says she was doing it on anyone's behalf? I get the impression she was acting alone and was making a point of acting alone.

Originally posted by Morphéus
your not, what you you are coming across as is the following...
anti globalisation, anti USA, anti west,

Irrelevant and off topic.

Originally posted by Morphéus
You sicken me because unfortunately most of the world now thinks the whole bloody country is like you,

Why would they think that? Sure doesn't the government permit the planes to land, thereby disproving your point?

Originally posted by Morphéus
Il tell you what though, if theyve any sense in shannon, theyll plug the perimeter fence into the national grid and make kentucky fried freaks out of the next lobotomized criminally minded person that tries to break in

(1) they actually need to put in a real fence first (2) Are you suggesting that people with mental difficulties should be physically harmed?

Originally posted by Morphéus
Do you honestly think it looks peaceful if you attack another countries assets? That is an act of war in some parts of the world.

Which parts of the world would that be? Either this is (1) an act of war or (2) a crime or (3) a war crime (4) as stated by the alleged attacker "damage with lawful excuse". You are defeating your own argument by stating it is 1 and 2 at the same time (I think we can agre it isn't 3).

Originally posted by Morphéus
Is it right to jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives in the future???

How does this jeopardise the pilots and passengers lives "in the future"? (Whatever about the here and now). If anything she has done a service in highlighting poor security.

Originally posted by Morphéus
How is this peaceful, what if her attempt at damage had caused damage to the aircraft and it wasnt noticed (i know worst case scenario) but if it wasnt and they took off and crashed killing people? maybe innocents on the ground?

I think the idea was to create as much visible damage as possible. I think the possibility of her doing damage and either the damage and /or her not being discovered were slight. And I suspect her logic was whatever risk she was taking was outweighed by the risk presented by the aircrafts' cargo.

Originally posted by Morphéus
but he shouldve been handed a straight jacket and a bib straight away for that clanger!!!

Who is "he"? And we put mental patients in hospital, criminals in prison in this country (well thats the idea anyway).

Originally posted by Morphéus
well well well considering that that woman caused €500,00K damage and considering our own air corps squabbled with the dept of finance just to get the bones of a few million quid together to purchase some new aircraft, she should be ashamed.

And these are linked how?

Originally posted by Morphéus
The irish gov will have to pay for the damage, money that was meant for ourselves, maybe to go towards the needy which is where the shortfall usually comes from first, they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

No they won't. The US military is self-insuring. And if you are worried about the "needy", please take into account the €1.5 per year that the government pays in transit fees for foreign military aircraft.

Originally posted by Morphéus
they are supposed to be providing security at the base so they will have to pay.

But they would appear not to be providing the security, which they should (and charging it to airport users).

Originally posted by Morphéus
your protest is in ruins, its turned into a riot and a fiasco,

Is it? Does one person now make a riot?

Originally posted by Morphéus
youve all shown your true colours. shower of vandalistic, tree hugging, backward looking, (i could go on for hours), fools.

O_o, big words.

gandalf · 30-01-2003 3:03pm

Closing this thread for the moment, until people cool down.

Gandalf.

DeVore · 30-01-2003 3:13pm

Originally posted by Snowball
hmmmm.... nope. Comments like that are not valid Come on. One-liners with no points what so ever?
What do our wise chief mod think? Does he have anything constructive?

DIRECTLY after this post (I mean the very next post Snowball) you posted simply:

Id Iraq had 300,000 troops surounding the States do u think that Bush would take that as an act of war?

That was the complete content of your post. Now I ask YOU if you even adher to the "rules" you seem to conveniently use for your own arguments...

I accept the right to protest and to inform others of your protest. However people WILL be civil and mature about it or they will leave this community.

This isnt a democracy, think of it as my "front room" where everyone is invited for us to have enlightened discussion... but I can ask you to leave if I see fit....

(The Mods are my bouncers.

)

DeV.

DeVore · 30-01-2003 3:30pm

I addition to this I would ask everyone to respect the right of people to free protest and to avoid calling them names. One of the DIFFERENCES between us and Iraq is that we are all ALLOWED to express different political views.

I think some of you need to sit down and think really hard about that. Particularly if you just thought "oh he doesnt mean me". I do.

Gandalf, I leave this in your capable hands man... week bans for anyone who goes into hysteronics or personal attacks.

Hush children, the adults are talking.

DeV.