Croke Park - Open its doors to evil soccer ?

The Rooster

First lets end the nonsense that everyone is entitled to play in Croker because it was partly grant-aided. €60m was received in grants to build the stadium, most (est €40m-45m) of this was paid back in VAT and payroll taxes. The GAA will be €100m in debt when the stadium is finished. They took the risks to build the stadium, they are the ones who have to service the debt, they are the ones who will reap the rewards of having the foresight to build such a magnificent stadium. It is up to them and only them as to what they do with the stadium.

The reason US football was let in once a few years ago is because it is not a competitor sport. Soccer, rugby and the GAA are in competition. The game is to attract as many kids to your sport as possible so we are assured of stars of the future. Croke Park - a magnificent, world class stadium provides the GAA with a wondrous backdrop to showcase our games. This is a competitive advantage that the GAA has developed over it's competitors. No business would forego a competitive advantage like this too easily. Why on earth would they?

The GAA, an amateur sporting and cultural organisation is effectively being asked to bail out two professional sports bodies, who are representative of two of the cash-richest sports on planet earth.

The answer is simple, they should not bail them out, they should not let the Government off the hook - for their spectacular lies told about the National Stadium project, they should not accept lectures on public service from failed League of Ireland coaches and fat late-night sports show anchors.

The GAA’s objective is to foster and promote our national games, nowhere in the GAA's constitution does it suggest that it should bail out its competitors!

If Irish soccer had nowhere to go who is to blame? The FAI, Bertie Ahern and his cronies - not the GAA! So why is the GAA getting blamed? In Ireland we've always taken a short term "sure it'll do grand" attitude and this media fuelled quick fix solution will not serve the best long term interests of anyone. It will just lead to a situation where 10 years down the line where the FAI have no money (and therefore are unable to develop their game) and the media campaign will start to force the GAA to give them the ground for a reduced fee or for nothing. The stadium will be almost paid for and it would look mean for the GAA to continue charging top prices for it's most prized asset.

The FAI is a international disgrace, it is governed by pathetic non-entities, whose siege mentality and self-serving has brought them to this position. It's nothing short of a scandal that the FAI don't have their own Stadium, it is their indictment, and the people of Ireland should be pointing their fingers at 80 Merrion Sq., instead of Jones Road, in disgust.

How can you blow the TV and merchandising rights to three World Cups, be sponsored for years by a European car-giant, and receive a "no-strings attached" hand-out from the Government, and still be broke?

I'd also like to raise an issue about the Irish soccer public themselves. It's easy to blame the FAI but surely the grassroots supporters can do more to usher change. Problem is there are feck all grassroots supporters. Most Irish soccer fans get the boat or the plane to London, Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow to watch soccer. Why not watch our national team where they watch all their soccer anyway? The players all live over there because Ireland cannot sustain a professional game, especially when you get no support from so-called soccer supporters.

In short, it's not the GAA's responsibility, that international soccer and rugby cannot be hosted in a fitting manner in this island. The GAA’s only responsibility is to its membership and to its games.

Praetorian

A one year old thread!

I believe the poll accurately reflects the opinions of the greater Irish population. Of course Croke Park should be opened to Irish internationals. I’m primarily a GAA supporter; it’s rare for me to miss a Dublin game, but I would also love to see the boys in green play there too. The Irish people, who go to the games, pay their taxes and buy their lottery tickets paid for the stadium. I paid for it!

'The total cost for the three-sided development, which will result in a capacity of 79,500, has been estimated at £110 million, with phase one costing £35 million. The necessary finance will be raised through the sale of the executive suites, the premium seats, the sale of term tickets, Government aided grants via the National Lottery and the balance via loans. One point worth noting in relation to the 'New Stand' is that the sale of the seats in the corporate/executive sector generated almost 50% of the cost of the project but only occupies 12% of the capacity.’

It makes sense to use the stadium throughout the year, not to mention the economic benefit. We (The Irish tax payers) should not have to fork out ¼ of a billion for a new stadium, and the added revenues can help pay off the GAA’s loans.

The GAA didn’t let their ‘competitors’ use the stadium simply because of the history involved. Let go of the ancient history lads

Yavvy

yeah I think we should stop thinking about indivdidual sport politics and start looking what is good for the nation....what that is ...well the poll speaks for itself doesnt it ?

The Rooster

As posted by Praetorian:

"The Irish people, who go to the games, pay their taxes and buy their lottery tickets paid for the stadium. I paid for it! "

So what!

Irish taxpayers paid for 100% of the govenment jet (as opposed to about 20% of Croker). Does that mean that everyone should have the use of the jet. We all paid for it!

There are plenty of good arguments in favour of opening (and not) Croke Park - so there's no need to give nonsense arguments.

If the GAA feel that its makes good economic and business sense to sublet Croke Park to other sports then they should do that. If they feel that it doenst then they should keep it for themselves and let the IRFU and FAI get out of their own mess.

Interesting that today UEFA have made a mockery of Fran Rooney's claims that Ireland will have to play games outside Ireland. They said they've no problems with the bucket seats in Lansdowne, even if it does make the FAI look stupid.

Praetorian

I certainly don't care about the government jet.

Rooster you obviously have a problem with the FAI and the IRFU. I think they are incompetent, greedy, corrupt and just plain stupid. It also could be argued that the GAA are just as bad or certainly were in the past. The GAA hierarchy are loaded yet they still refuse to pay the players. The players should at least be able to benefit from advertising, but even this is banned. The skill the coverage the hierarchies wages and the stadia all surpass soccer in Ireland.

I think the soccer and rugby fans should not have to suffer through the embarrassment of sitting in a dump aka Lansdowne road. More fans should get to see the games in a quality stadium! It should be the fan’s and the tax payers that benefit. I don’t really care about the organisations, and their bigotry.

There is very little point discussing this anyway. I think it is inevitable that Croke park will be opened to soccer at the very least, and that Lansdowne road will get it’s very expensive face lift; I’m calling it a face lift because in reality that’s all that it is (~45,000 stadium – 50,000 all seater). Rugby will have its new home. The FAI and the GAA will live happily ever after.

Yavvy

Agreed, I think it has to happen

Mighty_Mouse

All I can say is 75% of ye are obviously not proper GAA people because ye completely misunderstand the issues here.

1) this is not a gaa problem
-government and fai problem

2) the gaa havent even been asked for croker yet!

3) if even one game of soccer is played in croker so people seriously believe that a soccer/rugby stadium will be built

4) Croker isnt idle! They have signed agreements with local tenants on how many games can be played per annum

GAA is an amateur organisation which needs far more support than professional money oriented organisations such as soccer and rugby

I could go on. but some people will never listen to reason regardless.

In 5 years time, When yer cribbin because the Dubs have to play the leinster final under floodlights on April 1st after a soccer match and before a rugby match the next day dont come crying to me.

Yavvy

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
All I can say is 75% of ye are obviously not proper GAA people because ye completely misunderstand the issues here.

1) this is not a gaa problem-government and fai problem

2) the gaa havent even been asked for croker yet!

3) if even one game of soccer is played in croker so people seriously believe that a soccer/rugby stadium will be built

4) Croker isnt idle! They have signed agreements with local tenants on how many games can be played per annum

GAA is an amateur organisation which needs far more support than professional money oriented organisations such as soccer and rugby

I could go on. but some people will never listen to reason regardless.

In 5 years time, When yer cribbin because the Dubs have to play the leinster final under floodlights on April 1st after a soccer match and before a rugby match the next day dont come crying to me.

1 ....rubbish it involves croaker and the financial security of the GAA

2...your a fool if you think that

3...yes

4...which can be changed...tis the land of bertie dont ya know, also it will give the GAA the oppertunity to push more games out to its other excellent stadia

5. and if you think for onew second that a soccer match would take preferance over a dublin championship match then your the crazy one...and besides would a flood light match be cool ???

Villain

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse


In 5 years time, When yer cribbin because the Dubs have to play the leinster final under floodlights on April 1st after a soccer match and before a rugby match the next day dont come crying to me.

I think the majority of people know your points, the fact is that the FAI have never asked to use croke park, but the GAA board did vote on it so you can't say they weren't thinking about it.

Lansdowne will either be rebuilt or a new stadium will be built so we'r talking about a temporary solution, the FAI and IRFU DON'T want to use Croker as a permanent solution, they simple want to use it for a few years, and the number of games we'r talking about is very low so your above comment makes no sense what so ever as either Lansdowne will be rebuilt or a new stadium will be available.

I think most level minded people who aren't blinded by the GAA politics see that opening it up is the right thing to do, as the poll above shows.

The Rooster

"It is inevitable that Croke Park will be open to soccer"

It certainly is not! GAA congress could easily turn down the motions to open up Croker, as they have in the past. According to Tom Humphreys in the Times, judging by how counties have voted so far (still a lot to make up their mind) it looks like the motions will be defeated.

So there is certainly nothing inevitable about it.

Personally I would have no problem with one or two soccer games and one or two rugby games in Croker each year - so long as it didnt damage the pitch, it didnt disrupt the GAA championship and the IRFU and FAI are charged top dollar for the privilege.

But I've also no problem with the GAA saying feck off to everybody, if they so wish - its our stadium and its just for us, we're not helping develop competitor sports - its a GAA stadium, if you want to play in it, you need to be a GAA player.

Both the FAI and IRFU had the means in the past to build a better stadium, but they were / are full of incompetents. This is NOT the GAA's fault.

The development of Lansdowne is a far better idea than going out to Abbotstown. There is no question that we do need two stadia though.

By the way, GAA players are allowed do endorsements. The GPA have concluded a number of deals on players behalf.

Yavvy

It certainly is not! GAA congress could easily turn down the motions to open up Croker, as they have in the past. According to Tom Humphreys in the Times, judging by how counties have voted so far (still a lot to make up their mind) it looks like the motions will be defeated.

Ah but are you aware the voting strcture has changed recently within the gaa which is said to give more power to Sean Kelly and thoses in favour of soccer ?
never the less its always going to be a close call and will depend on a lot of back room negoaitions and back scratching ( as always with the GAA)

So there is certainly nothing inevitable about it.

nothing is certain in the counrty and when it comes to organisations like the FAI, GAA and the government...its even less so.

Personally I would have no problem with one or two soccer games and one or two rugby games in Croker each year - so long as it didnt damage the pitch, it didnt disrupt the GAA championship and the IRFU and FAI are charged top dollar for the privilege.

Y

ep I think most reasonable people would agree with ya there

But I've also no problem with the GAA saying feck off to everybody, if they so wish - its our stadium and its just for us, we're not helping develop competitor sports - its a GAA stadium, if you want to play in it, you need to be a GAA player.

I think the special Olympics showed that Croke Park can be a source of immense national pride, So yeah...I have a slight problem with the "no dogs, no soccer" attitude..lets promote all things irish..not just sport..but pride and repuation too ( no offence to dogs)

By the way, GAA players are allowed do endorsements. The GPA have concluded a number of deals on players behalf.

yeah but the GAA have done everything they can to stop it

The Rooster

Ah but are you aware the voting strcture has changed recently within the gaa which is said to give more power to Sean Kelly and thoses in favour of soccer ?

I find that hard to believe as I havent heard about it. Maybe I missed it, or maybe its up for discussion at Congress as well.

I think the special Olympics showed that Croke Park can be a source of immense national pride, So yeah...I have a slight problem with the "no dogs, no soccer" attitude

We all agree that Croke Park is a magnificent stadium and it would be great to show it off to the rest of Europe by hosting soccer and rugby internationals. What I meant by my comment was that the GAA have a competitive advantage over soccer and rugby, in that if youngsters are dreaming of playing in this magnificent stadium, at present they can only do so it they play gaelic games. That would be a big advantage for the GAA to give up.

Praetorian

I think current GAA players and kids aspiring to be future stars would be much more motivated by earning a professional sports persons wage; which is what they deserve for the monumental effort they put (will put) in annually. Playing in front of a packed Croker would be a fantastic thrill, but it doesn’t pay the mortgage does it? Come to think of it, the only fantastic thing that came out of the GAA’s stinginess is the fantastic Croke park.

Letting soccer in to Croke park won't improve the domestic soccer leagues fortunes. People are motivated by money, hence why all the decent players move to England.
Letting the internationals be held in Croke park would not make the GAA games less competitive in my opinion.

It's funny that the GAA will play on American football pitches, Aussie rules pitches, and soccer and rugby pitches when they are abroad. It's also funny that the IRFU didn't mind sharing Lansdowne with the FAI all these years.

Come on you boys in blue, come on you boys in green, come on you boys, come on you boys in green. ooh it's the same song

Wheeler

i agree that the doors should be let open but i couldnt bare to here the English national anthem being played in croker after they blew most of it to pieces over 80 yrs ago

Mighty_Mouse

How did this thread get made sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You options are limited also

option -

- only open croke park when an alternative stadium and soccer has been built


Alany, I mean the question is so one-sided its unbelievable.

TCP/IP

Since Croke Park is basically a goverment funded stadium the GAA has no rights to keep it closed to other sports. All funding should be removed from the GAA until it opens the hallowed doors. As for the comment about playing the english anythem all I can say is what a fu*kwit comment this is history and we need to move on. With that attitude then were would the nothern peace process be

Yavvy

Mouse, whether you think this thread should be a sticky is irrelevant ...it really is.
It IS a sticky and it a very popular discussion.

now make your point...or doth bother posting

Yavvy

As for the comment about playing the english anythem all I can say is what a fu*kwit comment this is history and we need to move on. With that attitude then were would the nothern peace process be

agreed, but you still gotta say it would be wierd having 20 or 30 thousand English people singing "footballs comming home " or " swing low " ... or the Germans singing..." scooter" for that matter

Still Im all for it ! If we are going to beat international teams, lets do it in style.

Villain

A few points

Mighty_Mouse
only open croke park when an alternative stadium and soccer has been built

That has to be one of the most stupid ideas I have ever read on boards, the complete reverse of that would make a lot more sense i.e. open Croker UNTIL an alternative stadium is available.

Alany
but you still gotta say it would be wierd having 20 or 30 thousand English people singing "footballs comming home " or " swing low " ... or the Germans singing..." scooter" for that matter

MOst an away team would get would be around 5-10 thousand

Yavvy

Good point Irish one ... but it would matter how many were singing it... the point I was making still stands... but thanks for the nit picking :dunno:

Villain

Originally posted by Alany
Good point Irish one ... but it would matter how many were singing it... the point I was making still stands... but thanks for the nit picking :dunno:

Well I reckon 50,000 Irish would be able to drown it out pretty well;)

Yavvy

yeah they would but when the score a goal ...and so on... its not unheard of for 5000 to be louder thna 50000

Villain

Ah but they wouldn't be singing any of the songs they would just be cheering.

What better feeling would there be than to beat England in Croke Park??

Yavvy

What better feeling would there be than to beat England in Croke Park??

Dublin winning the All Ireland...against Kerry or Meath [spit spit]

Villain

Originally posted by Alany
Dublin winning the All Ireland...against Kerry or Meath [spit spit]

lol, I think my ideal was a little close to reality

Yavvy

get out ....

kaimera

quit the spam :rolleyes:

Villain

GAA congress won't debate on opening of Croke Park

There not going to debate the issue, it was ruled out of order.

So they don't want to open because other organisations haven't built a stadium of their own.

Wonder will they allow other sports to use it while Lansdowne is being rebuilt.

Yavvy

typical.... they wont discuss it because they are afraid of the outcome.

Villain

It will be april 2005 now before they discuss it again unless, there's a special congress meeting in between.

8 Countys proposed a debate on it and all 8 were ruled out of order.

Fecking disgrace, the GAA should be ashamed of themselves.:mad: