No more smelly smoky bars

Silverfish

And a Natleeee and Chantalle......

So anyway, I like changes and challenges so roll on next january, I want to see how I cope.

Mick, I can't believe you posted 'yep'.

I can imagine your answers on English exam papers.

'Do you think the poet fully captured the mood? Explain'

Mick: 'Yep. I dunno'



Just Kidding....

thedrowner

ok...i havent read this properly (my computer font is fecked) so forgive me for my completely irrelvant post.

i quit smoking about 3 months ago completely (i never had a bad habit, but i just wanted to break free of it). i'd been trying to quit for 2 years, but because i work in a pub i just felt....well...im inhaling all this smoke anyway, i might as well be smoking so why not. (but at least ive finally quit)

i can;t wait until this thing comes in. in work, (ah...you all know where i work anyway so i'll stop coverin it up) they banned smoking at sit down gigs, (but not at stand up's coz there's no point, you just cant control that many people). but at the sit down gigs it was quite controllable and there's nothing i love more than walking over to some little **** with a cigarette and threatening them with a bouncer if they dont put it out. i dont think it's going to be that hard to control when it does come in, wont the barstaff be forced to tell people to tell people to put out their cigarettes? cos they'll get into trouble if not....i think. (this is all just speculation based on my experience with it in work)

o sleep

are sit down gigs where you work *really* non-smoking? ****. bcos i was at bonnie billy (the one with dave pajo and paul o'reilly) last year or something, and i thought it was non-smoking, but EVERYONE was smoking (by 'everyone' i mean a couple of people). being an incredibly polite person (and not wanting to be given out by people like drowner) i waited a while, and then thought, **** it, you must be allowed to smoke and so i did. and nobody said a word. even the waitress who came and delivered drinks to people in front of me.

regarding the bar staff: as far as i know, they will be, under terms of the legislation, by required to tell people not to smoke, but i think what people like silverfish etc are saying is that if a group of scumbags (you forgot to mention shardon and laurden) light up, a barperson would be unwilling to intervene, as the harm inflicted on him will be more immediate than legal process or even than passive smoking. or something.

sodiumlightbaby

maybe this is a double blessing for the non smokers amongst up

1. We wont have to breathe in others peoples pollution.

2. The Thieving Bstards that are the publicans might be forced to
bring down their drink prices (for a change) to encourage
people back into the pubs, instead of drinking at home !!Thats
what they're worried about !

Silverfish

As a matter of interest, how many of you anti-smokers own cars OR get taxis OR get buses? Then you contribute just as much pollution as smokers.


Carbon monoxide don't just come from cigarette smoke, y'know.

In fact, you inhale a lot more walking down a street in the city centre than you do from sitting in a pub.

Things I dislike:

Non-smokers complaining about smoke in pubs, but not emissions from buses or cars. I'm going to start insisting that non-smokers are not allowed in my car. 'Nope, sorry, you want clean air? Start a revolution. Walk'

Vegetarians who wear leather.





*DISCLAIMER *

I have a v v bad cold and I'm in a very bad mood. Any non-smokers who have been in my car, no offence is to be taken, and non smokers will be of course always welcome in my car. Just making a point, is all.......!!

shabbyroad

hope the cold gets better.....

carbon monoxide from cigarettes ?

what are you talking about ?!?!

you're not comparing like-with-like , it's two completely different things.

sodiumlightbaby

Originally posted by Silverfish

In fact, you inhale a lot more walking down a street in the city centre than you do from sitting in a pub.



That's why I live in a bubble !

BrianD

Silverfish - you raised an interesting point often raised by the smokers lobby. I think most non-smokers would also seek cleaner air and less exhaust emmisions from cars so I don't see what your point is. here. Unfortunately for the smoking lobby, it is scientifically proven that cigarette smoke - first or second hand - is far more lethal and dangerous than engine emmisions. This is compounded by the fact that smoking in a pub/restaurant/home is in a confined space with poor ventilation.

The tired old arguement of pubs investing in ventilation systems to combat smoke is still being wheeled out. Can anybody tell me a pub with one of these magical systems? Oddly, these forced air systems often contribute to the problem rather than alleviating it. It still dosn't get rid of the dangerous substances such as benzine which stays resident in soft furnishings of pubs for years.

I don't have to endure cigarette smoke on the bus, dart, the office, cinema, school so why should I have to in the pub or club or while I enjoy an overpriced meal? Smoke at home if you want to, sorry, need to!

thedrowner

Originally posted by Silverfish

Vegetarians who wear leather.

ah ha ha ha ha well im just great then! because i am true to my veggie beliefs and i dont even eat non free range eggs and all such stuff that contains them like snickers!

but IN FAIRNESS! i dont walk around with my mouth attached to the back end of cars and busses and personally, being in a crwoded bar full of smoke is worse. one of the reasons im happy its ocming in is i've seen people have to leave my job because of all the cigarette smoke was making them sick and the doctor told them they should quit. i know its going to be a bit of a pisser for everyone, but it's just fairer-people dont choose to passive smoke.

smoking is a bad thing and there are certain people out there who have accepted this and continue to smoke, and thats fair enough. i think this legislation will be a good thing, because then a lot of the people who are trying to give up and who just dont have enough will power when it comes down to it, because theyre out in a nightclub and everyone else has one, might benefit from it.

o sleep-i dont think the noon smoking thing came in that far back, i would say it came in around may of last year. and i have no problem going up to groups of people who look a bit dodgy and asking them to stop smoking. they're the people i go to first. i *love* fights, i do.

Sir

Originally posted by BrianD
The tired old arguement of pubs investing in ventilation systems to combat smoke is still being wheeled out. Can anybody tell me a pub with one of these magical systems?

The Three Sisters pub in leixlip has one it's really great coz you're eyes dont go all bloodshot and stingy after an hour in the place and you dont come home smellin like Santa Clause following a chimmney fire accident! It's the main reason myself and my friends go there rather than any of the other pubs in the area and some of them are smokers themselves


Join "Irish Drinkers For Better Ventilation" today and for a mere €15 you too will receive your very own membership badge which will let everyone know that you care about your air! Along with your membership badge and card you will also receive a copy of our fortnightly magazine "Asphyxiate" which brings you regular updates on the progress being made in the field of Inustrial, private and corporate ventilation systems. The magazine also features regular articles from promiinent members of the organisation such as Ronan Keating, the Corr sister who plays the violin and former Eurovision winner Johnny Logan, they'll keep you updated on the currnet state of the struggle to make clean air in Irish pubs a reality!

Remember Irish Drinkers for Better Ventilation is a non profit organisation and all proceeds raised through subscriptions are used to help relaunch the ailing careers of our members and also for the purchase of Tea bags, milk and chocolate biccies for our weekly meetings

rubadub

"It should be up to the publican"
-they are called publicans because they run PUBLIC houses, they cant open 24hrs either. in that case should it be up to the bank managers to allow smoking in their banks or not?

"i'd like to see the same initiatives implemeted against alcohol: warnings (because god knows they work), larger increase in the price etc to get people to give up drinking. it's not as dangerous as smoking, but it still kills."
-when i drink the person next to me doesnt get their liver destroyed. if you want to harm yourself its up to you and should be your right, as long as you dont harm me and leave me with no choice in the matter.

"if cigarette smoking is causing all this damage - both to smokers and non-smokers due to passive smoking, and with the huge money it apparently costs the health care system to take care of everyone who gets sick from smoking - why don't they just make smoking illegal? it's very odd."
-some high ranking international health expert predicted world war 3 would break out if tobacco were made illegal. tobacco junkies would roam the street mugging grannies just like heroin junkies (heroin is less addictive than nicotine). smuggling would be rife and they would be mixed with more crap than tobacco currently is (if thats possible!). there are a lot more tobacco addicts than heroin addicts, the problem would be huge

"i guess with all this legislation, it's going to be alot harder for any pro-cannabis legislation to be brought in as well."
-on the contrary, i think it will make people wake up and see tobacco for what it is, a drug that is smoked by many but not tolerated by society. if heroin was still legal would it be ok to smoke it in pubs with kids running about. i think all plants should be legal to grow and ingest in the comfort of your own home. if you smoke you are knowingly poisoning those around you due to the method of ingestion, i have no problem with people with nicotine patches sitting beside me in a pub, i do have a problem with people spilling beer into my mouth and therby forcing me to take drugs against my will.

"I think its great that smoking will be banned from pubs...as an asthma sufferer it really effects me when I I want to go to a gig or out for a few drinks..."
-people with obviously visible disabilities are taken care of by law (to some degree), but not people with other ailments. a person who is in a wheelchair can complain about not being able to go into a pub due to lack of wheelchair access. a person with asthma can complain about not being able to go into a pub too but will be told to feck off and live with it.

"of course its not really going to work..how will they police it??..I can't imagine a barman in whelans throwing somebody out because they were smoking...I mean they are not supposed to sell beer to people who are drunk but it doesn't stop them does it..."
-people get thrown out for smoking cannabis, whats the difference. it will be easier to spot than cannabis smokers too since nobody will be smoking anything else. BTW is it only smoking tobacco or could i still smoke, say, dry lettuce leaves with nictoine mixed in??? they can put smoke alarms around the pub to spot people quickly before everybody starts to light up.

"feckin hell if I waved a lighted stick around in a pub I'd be thrown out pretty sharpish."
- a point i have made for years!! i tried it once and did get thrown out, i burnt a pin number letter in an ashtray. they said i caused a fire hazard and i pointed out that about half the people were too they let me back in.

"i think if someone damages me with there smoke i should be aloud to jab the same smoke into their eye. they hurt my body i hurt theirs....."
-exactly. physically harming somebody should be against the law FULL STOP. if i was eating a poisonous substance in a pub and i knew some fell in somebodys drink in a pub and they got ill from it i would go to prison, WHATS THE DIFFERENCE??
why would i choose to eat a poisonous substance? probably for the same reasons people smoke poisonous substances.

"im wondering if they'll police the non-smoking rule if they perceive this rule as being damaging to their income."
-if they bring fines in it will damage their income more than the lack of smokers. bars get shut down for a week if underage drinkers are on the premises same should go for smokers.

"as for the guy complaining about the person burning him with a cigarette butt yes, incredibly annoying and it's happened to me too, but when my friend had the **** kicked out of him by a group of drunken knackers, well ... which would you say is worse?"
-i'd say the fact that the guy burning the other guy would not be prosecuted for carrying a dangerous weapon is worse. if i walked around a pub with a broken glass and accidently cut somebody what would happen?

"cigarettes are identical, pretty much no matter where you go, so enforcing a strict policy of only smoking cigarettes you bought in the pub would be a little naive. pubs would probably have to market their own cigarettes, to differentiate them from the ones sold in shops, and if they were to do so, they'd probably be a lot more expensive than normal cigarettes, so people wouldn't buy them."
-you can substitute the word "vodka" for "cigarettes" in the above quote. vodka in a pub is more expensive and many do still buy it (with high prices i notice more are starting to smuggle it in though!)

"1:You're going to have the scumbag smoker,that doesn't give a sh*t anyway,saying I'm going to have a schmoke where ever I bleedin' want.And if he's there with 5 or 6 of his mates,who's going to have the balls to tell him/her(all things being equal!!)to put it out......"
- the gardai, thats who, after the bar manager has asked them and they refused. no manager would tolerate people somking heroin in their pub. they would be breaking the law and it would be an offence NOT to report it to the gardai

"2:And at the other end of the spetrum,you have the 70 year old who has his usual couple of mid-week pints,is the publican really going to tell him that he can't smoke having probably been a regular there for 30 years or more?????? I don't think so,and I don't think it's very fair."
-bus drivers had to tell passangers of 30 years not to smoke anymore, whats the difference??

"but i know i just sit there and would never in a million years actually confront the person in question. it's just too risky. now, if i'm like that to someone who's on a bus, what would i be like to someone who's in a pub, having had seven or eight pints, i'd be even more reluctant."
-are you a member of the gardai? if not, then it is not your job to enforce the law, in fact it will get you in trouble in many instances. the gardai do not support vigilantes. if on a bus go and tell the driver to stop and call the gardai, i think they have to. i was stuck on a bus in dun loaighaire for 30mins waiting for them to arrive.

"2. The Thieving Bstards that are the publicans might be forced to
bring down their drink prices (for a change) to encourage
people back into the pubs, instead of drinking at home !!Thats
what they're worried about !"
-the price will probably go up if there does end up being less customers. then we'll see boycotts and it will drop.

"As a matter of interest, how many of you anti-smokers own cars OR get taxis OR get buses? Then you contribute just as much pollution as smokers."
-how many car owners hook a hose up to their exhaust and stick it in the window of their local. it should be my right as a nonsmoker to get my nightly pollution in the air, i reckon only half an hour would do it for my share compared to a smoker smoking all night. this is about the work place, welders have to have exhaust hoods which are checked by external bodies to see they are up to standard.

"In fact, you inhale a lot more walking down a street in the city centre than you do from sitting in a pub."
-bull****. depends on what pub and what street.

"Non-smokers complaining about smoke in pubs, but not emissions from buses or cars. I'm going to start insisting that non-smokers are not allowed in my car. 'Nope, sorry, you want clean air? Start a revolution. Walk'"
-if they did complain you could then say they dont complain about people using electricity which usually has emmissions involved in its production. oh sorry i forgot 2 wrongs DO make a right in your world.

"The tired old arguement of pubs investing in ventilation systems to combat smoke is still being wheeled out. Can anybody tell me a pub with one of these magical systems? Oddly, these forced air systems often contribute to the problem rather than alleviating it. It still dosn't get rid of the dangerous substances such as benzine which stays resident in soft furnishings of pubs for years."
-the get rid of actual visible smoke but not the more dangerous chemicals. most are just recirculating the air and feel there is no need for fresh air because it appears clean and it saves on heating bills. so yes indeed it can do more harm, they do not work.

now after all that i think i'll have a smoke

Ste k

So I was wondering what is your point rubadub.

Or are you just pointing out the in-accuracies of people's belief systems.

There are alot of mis-understandings with relation to whats more dangerous than smoke, or carbon monoixde from cars. I somehow think no goverenment would get elected again if they banned cars on public roads.

rubadub

"So I was wondering what is your point rubadub.
Or are you just pointing out the in-accuracies of people's belief systems"

i'm just trying to make people think again about what they say.
why is "this" ok when "this" is not when they appear to be the same. why is one toxic gas in the workplace acceptable and others arent

think of the issue fundamentally and not what tradition and society has made acceptable and what is not. if tobacco was discovered only yesterday would people be smoking it in pubs? if paracetomol was discovered yesterday it wouldnt get past the current criteria for a drug to be made legal.
i like to use anaolgies. many dont see tobacco and alcohol as drugs at all. i remember in work a guy complaining about fumes from a paint can, he had a cigarette in his mouth at the time, is he really concerned about his health or just ignorant.

fundamentally people are getting away with murdering other people. just stand back and look at it.

"There are alot of mis-understandings with relation to whats more dangerous than smoke, or carbon monoixde from cars. I somehow think no goverenment would get elected again if they banned cars on public roads."

i pointed out that fact, one guy said it is more dangerous to breath in air on the street thatn in a pub. either could be worse.

this whole thread is meant to be about smoking. one guy was moaning that antismokers arent moaning about car fumes. if they were moaning he would mention something else they werent moaning about. its like saying if you complain you must complain against everything bad in the world or nothing at all

are the government who banned smoking going to be elected again?

DerekD Goldfish

One of the reasons the goverment probably doesnt ban smoking is that in a sick way it saves them money.

Because smokers die younger they recive less pension payments etc. A study done in (Chezh Republic I think) stated that the extra money spent on health is outweighted by the saving in welfare payments.

I am not saying im in favour of smoking but people should have the right to do it if they want. Just not near me.

I feel the same way about hash I dont smoke it but if people want to smoke it in their own homes they should be allowed to.

People should have the right to be stupid.

rubadub

the was a program on tg4 (i think) a while back about better health care and pensions. spain was facing the biggest problem. the pensionable age was set at 65 (or whatever in is in spain). this was set back in the 1950's when life expectancy was lower and health in general was lower so a 65 year old really was pretty unable to work. now they have more old people than young. people arent having as many kids due to culture and lifestyle. many people over 65 are well able to work but choose to go on the pension instead, they are living well into their 90's on good pensions. the small number of younger people will have to pay massive taxes to pay for the huge number of pensions. they live longer after reaching 65 so the number of pensionable years paid to them is much more than in the 1950s.
ireland is the opposite at the moment, more young than old. but they reckon we will be in the same boat in 50years.

the politicians in the 50's set up what is like a pyramid scheme, they will all be dead by the time it collapses so they dont give a damn.

o sleep

Originally posted by rubadub
"i'd like to see the same initiatives implemeted against alcohol: warnings (because god knows they work), larger increase in the price etc to get people to give up drinking. it's not as dangerous as smoking, but it still kills."
-when i drink the person next to me doesnt get their liver destroyed. if you want to harm yourself its up to you and should be your right, as long as you dont harm me and leave me with no choice in the matter. not really my point, but alcoholism does harm other people. not as subtle as cigarette smoke, but it does lead to loss of life.

"if cigarette smoking is causing all this damage - both to smokers and non-smokers due to passive smoking, and with the huge money it apparently costs the health care system to take care of everyone who gets sick from smoking - why don't they just make smoking illegal? it's very odd."
-some high ranking international health expert predicted world war 3 would break out if tobacco were made illegal. tobacco junkies would roam the street mugging grannies just like heroin junkies (heroin is less addictive than nicotine). smuggling would be rife and they would be mixed with more crap than tobacco currently is (if thats possible!). there are a lot more tobacco addicts than heroin addicts, the problem would be huge i don't think world war 3 would break out if smoking was banned in Ireland (now, in america it might be a different story)

"im wondering if they'll police the non-smoking rule if they perceive this rule as being damaging to their income."
-if they bring fines in it will damage their income more than the lack of smokers. bars get shut down for a week if underage drinkers are on the premises same should go for smokers.


"but i know i just sit there and would never in a million years actually confront the person in question. it's just too risky. now, if i'm like that to someone who's on a bus, what would i be like to someone who's in a pub, having had seven or eight pints, i'd be even more reluctant."
-are you a member of the gardai? if not, then it is not your job to enforce the law, in fact it will get you in trouble in many instances. the gardai do not support vigilantes. if on a bus go and tell the driver to stop and call the gardai, i think they have to. i was stuck on a bus in dun loaighaire for 30mins waiting for them to arrive. so you complain to the bus driver and usually he won't pay any attention. but if you insist, and he doesn't want to confront these people either (as his safety may be in danger) he rings the police, and like you say, you wait for 30 minutes (or more) for the police to arrive. this would make me even more unlikely to complain. also: prosecutions are rarely brought to court, most of the time they're given warnings or slaps on the wrist.

"2. The Thieving Bstards that are the publicans might be forced to
bring down their drink prices (for a change) to encourage
people back into the pubs, instead of drinking at home !!Thats
what they're worried about !"
-the price will probably go up if there does end up being less customers. then we'll see boycotts and it will drop. although we invented boycotting, we're incredibly bad at it. the price of drinks in pubs (in dublin anyway) has been skyrocketing over the last couple of years, and i've never heard of anyone boycotting a pub. remember in greece, when 80% of people obeyed a boycott against rising prices due to the Euro? we had one here, too. anyone here about it? no, didn't think so. so i don't think the boycott will happen.

-how many car owners hook a hose up to their exhaust and stick it in the window of their local. it should be my right as a nonsmoker to get my nightly pollution in the air, i reckon only half an hour would do it for my share compared to a smoker smoking all night. this is about the work place, welders have to have exhaust hoods which are checked by external bodies to see they are up to standard. yes, few car owners (if any) hook their exhaust pipes to their locals. yet i think the point being made is that there tends not to be the same level of protest against the poisonous gases coming out of cars. I understand this is a thread about smoking in bars, but if non-smokers are going to be hypocritical about smoking and then get in their car and drive home, well i think it's a fair point.

"In fact, you inhale a lot more walking down a street in the city centre than you do from sitting in a pub."
-bull****. depends on what pub and what street. if it depends on what street and what pub, it's not bull**** then.

now after all that i think i'll have a smoke [/B] me too.

rubadub

"i'd like to see the same initiatives implemeted against alcohol: warnings (because god knows they work), larger increase in the price etc to get people to give up drinking. it's not as dangerous as smoking, but it still kills."
-when i drink the person next to me doesnt get their liver destroyed. if you want to harm yourself its up to you and should be your right, as long as you dont harm me and leave me with no choice in the matter. not really my point, but alcoholism does harm other people. not as subtle as cigarette smoke, but it does lead to loss of life.


i agree. there should be more warnings about alcohol (and coffee, sugar, OTC medicines). my point is that i have no problem with people taking any drugs be it crack cocaine or tea, but i do have a problem if there method of ingestion causes me physical harm.



"but i know i just sit there and would never in a million years actually confront the person in question. it's just too risky. now, if i'm like that to someone who's on a bus, what would i be like to someone who's in a pub, having had seven or eight pints, i'd be even more reluctant."
-are you a member of the gardai? if not, then it is not your job to enforce the law, in fact it will get you in trouble in many instances. the gardai do not support vigilantes. if on a bus go and tell the driver to stop and call the gardai, i think they have to. i was stuck on a bus in dun loaighaire for 30mins waiting for them to arrive. so you complain to the bus driver and usually he won't pay any attention. but if you insist, and he doesn't want to confront these people either (as his safety may be in danger) he rings the police, and like you say, you wait for 30 minutes (or more) for the police to arrive. this would make me even more unlikely to complain. also: prosecutions are rarely brought to court, most of the time they're given warnings or slaps on the wrist.


yep its a disgrace. the law is not serious about the offence being committed due to its acceptance by society. i still see under 18s being served cigarettes all the time. but if a kid is found smoking cannabis it makes headline news, if they caught the dealer selling to kids god help him, but the shopkeeper selling smokes and beer gets a nasty telling off- crazy. if you told the bus driver that theres a guy with a can of toxic gas spraying it about upstairs they would pay attention, but toxic smoke "sure its only smoke". ahhh ignorance is bliss...



"2. The Thieving Bstards that are the publicans might be forced to
bring down their drink prices (for a change) to encourage
people back into the pubs, instead of drinking at home !!Thats
what they're worried about !"
-the price will probably go up if there does end up being less customers. then we'll see boycotts and it will drop. although we invented boycotting, we're incredibly bad at it. the price of drinks in pubs (in dublin anyway) has been skyrocketing over the last couple of years, and i've never heard of anyone boycotting a pub. remember in greece, when 80% of people obeyed a boycott against rising prices due to the Euro? we had one here, too. anyone here about it? no, didn't think so. so i don't think the boycott will happen.

i admit the term boycott is too strong (it was in my head from reading another post). i do think less people will go to pubs. prices will increase due to this leading to even less going. smokers will stay in drinking at home. i see it already happening among people i know. people get tanked up at home these days and then go to the pub later on to save spending 50 euro just for a few drinks. 10 jameson and coke in the pub/club is up to 70 euro, at home it is 14 euro 1/5th the price. but smokers will put off going to the pub even longer saying "we'll have a few more here at home and then head to the pub, sure we cant smoke in there anyway"



-how many car owners hook a hose up to their exhaust and stick it in the window of their local. it should be my right as a nonsmoker to get my nightly pollution in the air, i reckon only half an hour would do it for my share compared to a smoker smoking all night. this is about the work place, welders have to have exhaust hoods which are checked by external bodies to see they are up to standard. yes, few car owners (if any) hook their exhaust pipes to their locals. yet i think the point being made is that there tends not to be the same level of protest against the poisonous gases coming out of cars. I understand this is a thread about smoking in bars, but if non-smokers are going to be hypocritical about smoking and then get in their car and drive home, well i think it's a fair point.

my point is that i dont think they are hypocritical. cars serve a valid purpose. some would say smokers find smokes enjoyable, i would reason that rather they find not having cigarettes unenjoyable. what lenghts should nonsmokers go to to get clean air. electricity is normally produced with toxic gases as a by product. should antismokers refuse to use electricity and anything that has been produced which used electricity? where do you draw the line? the law is about smoking in the WORKPLACE, i'm sure if a motor mechanic complained about car exhaust damaging his health in a garage something would be done.
what i really find hypocritical is politicians on talk show like questions and answers talking about peoples civil rights being taken, yet many drugs are illegal, why are they illegal? because the same politicians want it so.
i'll start campaigning against car emmissions when the pro-smokers campaign to legalise all plant life on this planet.

i myself had nictoine running through my veins since i was a baby letting it addiction slowly take hold. when i was 17 and frequented pubs and i got even more nicotine in my system, against my will. i was smoking a few every night passively and when at home drinking found the urge to smoke. the combined addiction and lowered will power due to booze led me to take up smoking. i didnt smoke when sober, they sickened me during the day. i could go for weeks without a smoke since i didnt like the taste and wasnt drinking. i finally kicked the addiction, but i dont think i would have started if smoking was banned from pubs. id rather have been hooked on heroin (if it was legal at the time) at least it gives a good high and is less addictive.



"In fact, you inhale a lot more walking down a street in the city centre than you do from sitting in a pub."
-bull****. depends on what pub and what street. if it depends on what street and what pub, it's not bull**** then.

it is a useless statement aka bull****. others include. a piece of string is longer than a piece of wire. water is more dangerous than alcohol. asprin is more dangerous than heroin.
all these statement may be true or false so whats the point in making them?

o sleep

Originally posted by rubadub
id rather have been hooked on heroin (if it was legal at the time) at least it gives a good high and is less addictive.

it is a useless statement aka bull****. others include. a piece of string is longer than a piece of wire. water is more dangerous than alcohol. asprin is more dangerous than heroin.
all these statement may be true or false so whats the point in making them?

another example you could've given here would be saying you'd rather be on heroin than addicted to smoking. which i seriously doubt you would be. heroin might be a nice high, but it's more immediately lethal than cigarette smoking, and coming off it induces more serious after-effects than coming off smoking. when people say that smoking is more addictive than heroin (and from what i've read, this is true) they're also including different categories that aren't applicable to heroin use: habit, for example, amongst other things.

rubadub

thats why i was saying "if it was still legal". street heroin is heroin and god knows what else. people die from the impurities. the odd time they do actually die from actual heroin overdoses is when it is too pure. if it was legally avaliable you would know it is pure and what dose to take. a medium sized cigar contains a lethal dose of nicotine. many doctors are hooked on opiates/heroin and lead successful lives, they can get the good stuff, which causes few side effects. a programme on bbc2 a while back showed addicts who got pure heroin and they led normal lives, they werent shivering wrecks. if tobacco was illegal we would have tobacco junkies dying from impure tobacco too

i wouldnt like to be hooked on either nicotine or heroin. but if i was held at gunpoint and force to take a dose of pharmaceutically pure heroin or nicotine i would pick the heroin thanks very much.

the comedown off heroin is exaggerated in the press and media to scare people (which i think is a good thing) just like the dangers of most drugs are exaggerated. i think it was william burroughs who described it as like having the flu for a week. nicotine withdrawl is no walk in the park either. it is easier to go cold turkey from heroin, you wont have it pumped into your system everyday

Silverfish

i pointed out that fact, one guy said it is more dangerous to breath in air on the street thatn in a pub. either could be worse.

this whole thread is meant to be about smoking. one guy was moaning that antismokers arent moaning about car fumes. if they were moaning he would mention something else they werent moaning about. its like saying if you complain you must complain against everything bad in the world or nothing at all

No, In fact, I was moaning about people who complain about smoking then ask me (female) for a lift in my car.

Then when in my car, they frequently ask me (female) not to smoke.

Mindless of the fact that my car is emitting more carbon monoxide than my cigarette.

carbon monoxide from cigarettes ?what are you talking about ?!?!

Cigarettes contain carbon monoxide.

E.G the pack I am smoking right now:

Tar: 6mg
Nicotine: 0.5mg
Carbon Monoxide: 7mg

Now appearing on a pack near you.


And I don't give a sh*t.

I could be hit by a foul, polluting, dangerous-for-my-health 77A bus tomorrow.

irokie

smoking.
mmmmm.

i really shouldn't say this, but i liked smoking. every so often something makes me think i still like smoking. it's been about 3 months since i've had a smoke and so i keep saying to myself: "hey, i'm quit now, so if i have one cigarette, it doesn't really count as smoking, now does it?"
but it does.

but i'm not one of those "if i can't smoke any more neither can you" people. i made a choice and i had people help me make that choice and help me once i'd made the choice. i like these people and i hope they know how thankful i am (very, except when i get cravings).

it's not easy to quit smoking. it is possible.

it's easiest if you're hanging out with people who don't smoke.

i'm sure i had a point to this.

Silverfish

Originally posted by rubadub

"1:You're going to have the scumbag smoker,that doesn't give a sh*t anyway,saying I'm going to have a schmoke where ever I bleedin' want.And if he's there with 5 or 6 of his mates,who's going to have the balls to tell him/her(all things being equal!!)to put it out......"
- the gardai, thats who, after the bar manager has asked them and they refused. no manager would tolerate people somking heroin in their pub. they would be breaking the law and it would be an offence NOT to report it to the gardai
-are you a member of the gardai? if not, then it is not your job to enforce the law, in fact it will get you in trouble in many instances. the gardai do not support vigilantes. if on a bus go and tell the driver to stop and call the gardai, i think they have to. i was stuck on a bus in dun loaighaire for 30mins waiting for them to arrive.

Wait a minute.

Are you seriously, with a straight face, telling me that whenever someone lights a cigarette in a pub in dublin, a crack squad of guards in yellow jackets will descend upon them and haul them down the station???

'It would be an offence NOT to report it to the gardai'

Ohhhh yeah, I can just see the scene.

Store Street :::: 11.27pm:::::: Saturday Night

'Hello, Store Street Garda Station'

'Jesus, boys, get down here quick!! Someone lit a cigarette in the toilets in The Oak!! Quick!!!'

'Right Sir, we'll have a car there in three minutes!! Try and stay calm!!'

My car was broken into one night. It took the guards five hours to come out to me. Fair enough, more important things to be doing and all that, its reassuring in a way.

But I can't see them legging it into bars in dublin every twenty minutes to stand around going 'Are you sure he was smoking Sir? This man here? He doesn't appear to have a cigarette right now, sir'
'Jesus, he must have smoked it!!'
'Right sir. Definitely this guy here? Okay, we'll take him down the station with the rest'


No, I just don't buy it.

Or maybe you think there'll be crack squads of ninjas descending from the ceilings on ropes with throwing stars??

o sleep

Originally posted by rubadub
i think it was william burroughs who described it as like having the flu for a week. nicotine withdrawl is no walk in the park either. it is easier to go cold turkey from heroin, you wont have it pumped into your system everyday

is this the same william burroughs who shot and murdered his wife in a freak accident (while tanked up on heroin)? Burroughs was a decent enough writer, but just because one person describes heroin withdrawal as having the flu, doesn't mean that's the way it is, unfortunately.

i gave up smoking a while back (bad move, i only did it for someone else, which is why i subsequently went back on them) and found it incredibly easy to give up. i guess it all depends on the person.

rubadub

both are hard to addictions to kick. i have read medical journals which also said heroin withdrawl is not as bad as the media makes out. 2 guys i know have kicked heroin but still cant give up the smokes. not as much incentive to give up and no real stigma attached to it i suppose.

you found it easy to give up, then decided it was a bad move and took them up again. how long were you off?? why on earth go back? did you miss the lack of money or the coughing or was it the withdrawl symtpoms

Ste k

one way you could stop people smoking is by stopping people starting. I know loads of kids are smoking on the streets from ages 10-12 but here is a plan

Increase the age of smoking by one year every year. That way people you are smoking now can keep on going till their lungs fail while systematically making it harder for younger ones to start, in 20's you'll be able to know if the person is under 38 year limit if he looks even close to 18.

You would have to get rid of vending machines, they did that in some states in America so its not really that hard niether is there a huge margin in it for the publicans, they barely getting anything from a packet.

Well thats my two cents.

o sleep

I gave up for the wrong reasons, which is why i went back on them. I still enjoy smoking, and that's why i still am. Also, i have finals coming up soon, and i know i'll probably 'need' them (at least in my head).

and yes, i'm fully aware that this sense of 'need' is indicative of an addiction. However i am confident that after my exams, i will be able to give up those god dammned cigarettes without too much looking back.

i can keep you informed if you like...

rubadub

great idea Ste. i thought it was sick the way the government upped the age limit to 18 after making addicts out of so many kids thereby making it illegal for them to continue consuming what the same people let them get hooked on. they could have at least given them patches or something. they still dont even subsidise nictoine replacement therapy, shows how much they are concerned about it. they should spend a portion of tobacco tax on helping addicts, i heard they plan a 2 euro rise next budget

o sleep- good luck with the exams, no point getting more stressed trying to give up at the moment. i wish you more luck after the exams when you're trying to give up again

Silverfish

So who'd have thunk it? We lost!!!


I've been out about three times since the smoking ban came in.

had to come back and revisit the thread..........

Ste k

Well I was away in NZ for the time when the ban came in and it was well enforced by the time I got back and clearly it has been popular and has a compliancy rate of about 95% which aint bad.

Really its a good thing even if you do smoke and enjoy smoking you dont have the right to enforce it on everyone else and a fair few pubs (like Whelans) have built nice warm smoking areas which is for you death stick smokers

Plus there has been the creation of 'Smirting' apparently 1/3 of single people who have been smoking outside a bar or in a designated area have hooked up with a fellow smoker, there is no even people going out with their smoker friends to hook up.

All in all its a good step forward one of the few the government made, publicians are giving out about lost revenue but that also could be that 4 pints cost 20 euro when even the most moderatly intelligent punter knows its 7 euro for six dutchie or Kroneburg.

So have a drink and smoke at home and dance away safe in the knowledge the only dangerous thing in our pubs are the completely wasted muppets who all stagger out onto the street at the same time looking for a fight.

Next complaint... closing hours.... to be continued