New Non-Line-Of-Sight Wireless Broadband invention, 20 mile range

Urban Weigl

Up to 20 miles NLOS (Non-Line-Of-Sight) radius from base station, 3.2Mbps down and up per subscriber (full two-way system) even to the edge of the cell, already rolled out to up to 97 million people in Mexico -- who can avail of the service from 30 euros per month...

http://www.nextnetwireless.com

However, it can not be rolled out in Ireland because it operates in the 2.5-2.7GHz spectrum, which has all been reserved for Chorus and, in some cases, NTL. Oh well.

K!LL!@N

This is exactly the kind of technology Ireland needs to be pushing for. We need to embrace new technologies like this. 3.2Mb is more than adequate. And do i read right that it's synchronous giving 3.2Mb in each direction? If the latency was good, i'd definitely use something like this.
Surely NTL's licence must be revoked and i'm sure we could revoke Chorus' licence as well. We need to open up that range of the spectrum, letting anyone that wants to provide a service on it to do so. What would IBB/IrishWISP et al, do with this technology?

97 million Mexican's can't be wrong!

Killian

Nuphor

That'd be absolutely perfect. However, given the current legal state with regard to licences, it'd take an age to implement. This should definately be something that IOFL pushes for though.

parasite

why oh why did they give it to chorus ? when was this, have they made any attempt to use it, or is it just to stop someone else using it ?

zynaps

Get those licenses away from them wasters!

longword

I wonder how far you'd get with 802.11[abg] if you were allowed transmit at 2 Watts.

pork99

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
However, it can not be rolled out in Ireland because it operates in the 2.5-2.7GHz spectrum, which has all been reserved for Chorus and, in some cases, NTL. Oh well.

Oh the great feeling of being overtaken by 3rd world countries! Nice one!

yellum

MMDS operates just above the 2.4GHZ band. I'm not sure but there were plans to move the cable resellers licences to other bands, I don't know is it to this band or from this band though.

Its on the comreg site somewhere. If Muck was here ...

Is this an open or proprietary standard, as at the end of the day it could end up costing a fortune. Although if its available to the masses in Mexico. .. Hang on rolled out to 97 Million people in Mexico, thats about the number of net users in the United States. Dodgy.

dahamsta

If Muck was here ...

Where is he yellum?

*koff* BILDERBERG *koff*

heh

adam

PiE

"Rolled out to up to 97m people"

That's probably exaggerated, like eircom saying they've DSL-enabled 500,000 lines.

K!LL!@N

.

yellum

The specs for the products are here:

http://www.nextnetwireless.com/products_specs.asp

Anyone know if other manufacturers make gear that can work with this ?

Q How is NextNet's Expedience system different from other broadband wireless solutions?

A: The Expedience™ system is a NLOS Plug-and-Play system with a proven business model for MMDS service provider profitability. It features: the industry's first and only NLOS indoor, portable subscriber unit with a cell radius of up to 20 miles, with greatest throughput to the edge of the cell. This means more subscribers have access to true broadband speeds. In addition, it requires no exterior antenna and no service provider truck-roll for installation. What's more, the Expedience system is truly plug-and-play, with absolutely no software for the end user to load, and no need for the carrier to configure or support the user's personal computer.

Q: Will NextNet's Expedience technology be applied to other Frequency bands in the future?

A: Yes. Initially, this technology is being applied to the MMDS band (2.5 to 2.686 GHz). It is being leveraged into other frequency bands and applications, based on customer demand.

spongebob

if it is not an open 802.xx wireless standard I would not be interested....even if it meant that valuable spectrum was left with those tossers Chorus and NTL

NLOS tech operates up to 11Ghz for some reason I know not, above that the techology must be LOS (Line of Sight)

Comreg should be very picky about allowing operations in these bands and have reserved a chunk at around 5.8Ghz for some funky tech that may do what Chorus and NTL certainly won't. Comreg mused on the matter in this Document

This is the bit that caught my eye back then.

Of the twelve respondents who expressed a view, eight were in favour of increasing the EIRP in the 5725 -–5875 MHz band from the current 25 milliwatts. Two respondents proposed an EIRP of 1 watt, one at least 2 watts and another 4 watts. 1 watt was considered by one respondent to be sufficient to allow cost effective, non-line of sight technology to customers within a 5 to 10 km radius. Another respondent suggested that at least 2 watts was required to enable metropolitan area network (MAN) services such as fast wireless Internet beyond the reach of alternative platforms such as ADSL or cable modems. The 4 watt proposal was based on enabling service providers to address rural and metropolitan services at reasonable cell / network costs. Four of the respondents in favour of higher powers also proposed that the spectrum should be licensed and split into two 75 MHz bands for assignment. One further respondent supported higher power levels but suggested that access be restricted to specific user groups.

Richard Barry is the man to ask I think, or some of the WAN organisers...certainly not me....

M

OHP

Wrong place for this sorth of thread me thinks.


OHP

bk

Originally posted by OHP
Wrong place for this sorth of thread me thinks.


OHP

OHP are you just trying to increase your post count or what?

If you don't like the look of a thread from the title then don't read it, there is no one forcing you.

It is up to the mods to decide what is and isn't relevant.

Personally I'm very interested in WLAN, as are many IOFFL members. Any last mile technology is of interest as we all recognise that the biggest hurdle for BB in Ireland is Eircoms control of the last mile.

In other countries cable competes with DSL and has played a big part in the reduction in price of DSL. In Ireland we don't have cable net access, that is why I believe we should all be doing whatever we can to try and promote WLAN as an alternative in Ireland.

yellum

Any last mile technology is relevant to this forum. See my reply in another thread.

SkepticOne

I agree that wireless last mile solutions are relevent to this forum in addition to the 'wireless' forum.

joec

i have on good advice that chorus are testing a new technology(wireless)........i would say it may be this product.........i was told that the technoloigy was far cheaper for them ect...........

yellum

Haha. Chorus.

spongebob

Originally posted by joec
i have on good advice that chorus are testing a new technology(wireless)........i would say it may be this product.........i was told that the technoloigy was far cheaper for them ect...........

Chorus has their LOS licences taken off them in October 2002 and must have a working D-MMDS product by the 01/03/03 in ALL of their franchise areas. Currently it exists in Limerick only.
Here you may note that ALL the MMDS licences are up for competition on the 01/03/04 irrespective of whether they are providing a service on the wavelengths or not. Only Chorus are currently allowed to offer Broadband on the MMDS frequencies, NTL are not.

If Chorus don't have a working D-MMDS product (Wireless Broadband in and around the 2.5 or 2.6Ghz band) they will undergo a spectrum cull like last October in every franchise area in which they fail to deliver. I am not surprised they are looking into it seeing as it must be at the pilot stage all over the west and the Midlands by the end of THIS month......

The spectrum that Chorus are sitting on is valuable NLOS spectrum and will be probably opened up on a first come / first served basis to operators who will use it.

In yesterdays Sunday Tribune there was a mention of Chorus losing €180 MILLION (I jest not) last year.....mostly from goodwill writeoffs. Choruses goodwill was in negative figures anyway and then underwent a €180Million readjustment for the worse. It also came up in the article that they are negotiating with their bankers for financing going forward.

If they lose some of their spectrum in an important band around 2.5-2.6Ghz then they may very well become immediately unviable and collapse, Comreg will not comment on these matters owing to the commecial sensitivity of the whole thing and Etains mortal fear of the High Court.

Etain would do better if she remembered the praise she heaped oin Chorus .......in a Speech she made down in the bog here in September 2001 on one of her RARE forays into 'Car Driving' range from her office. One year after she praised them and repeated their PR drivel to us down here in the Wesht she stripped the useless tossers of the FWA licences averred to as follows.

One of the other broadband FWA licensees is Chorus who applied for and were awarded £17.1 million from the Government’s national development plan to provide FWA services to the regions, in particular the BMW region including towns Castlebar, Ballina, Sligo, Donegal, Letterkenny and Buncrana. Chorus have started offering their services in parts of the country and are working on the roll out of their network.

This will supplement the MMDS network operated by Chorus to provide wireless television services, including digital services. My office recently published consultation documents which show revised completion dates for digital roll out. Ballina, for example, will have 80% digital coverage by Q1 2003; the Midlands served by MMDS will have 100% digital coverage by Q1 2003 and the MMDS network serving the NorthWest is planned to have 100% digital roll out completed by Q1 2004 . Chorus’ MMDS signal is only one way and users would have to use a dial up connection to complete the two way service required for interactive services. FWA solves this problem.

'Ballina 80% coverage' by now......its 0% Etain same as before you took over the ODTR

M

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Muck
Chorus has their LOS licences taken off them in October 2002 and must have a working D-MMDS product by the 01/03/03 in ALL of their franchise areas. Currently it exists in Limerick only.
Here you may note that ALL the MMDS licences are up for competition on the 01/03/04 irrespective of whether they are providing a service on the wavelengths or not. Only Chorus are currently allowed to offer Broadband on the MMDS frequencies, NTL are not.

If Chorus don't have a working D-MMDS product (Wireless Broadband in and around the 2.5 or 2.6Ghz band) they will undergo a spectrum cull like last October in every franchise area in which they fail to deliver. I am not surprised they are looking into it seeing as it must be at the pilot stage all over the west and the Midlands by the end of THIS month......

Can you point me to the regulation that Chorus will be in breach of if they don't provide two-way (as opposed to one way digital MMDS) services in all their franchise areas?

spongebob

1. Is MMDS licence is for Telly, this is by and large in use and they will keep it.

2. Is for Broadband (FWA or FWPMA in Comreg speak) using MMDS frequencies. These are the frequencies alluded to in the technology which was mentioned in re: Mexico at the start of the thread around 2.5 - 2.7Ghz

To Recap

In the year 2000 4 FWA Broadband Licences were granted. Formus colapsed, Chorus had theirs taken off them in October 2002 , Eircom have theirs and ESAT have some of theirs. ESAT's were selectively culled in October 2002 .

In the year 2000 2 FWA Narrowband Licences were granted. Chorus generally use their WLL licence. It works in Limerick Cork and Dublin.
Eircom have theirs but I am not sure about its deployement , I think 2 more were on offer but nobody got one (or applied .........hint hint ESB)

There is a single licence known as Rurtel ISTR. Eircom got that to swap out RF links for something better. It is a sorta low grade WLL and runs at around 2.3Ghz. They may have used this and not the WLL one, must enquire.

Chorus (in 2000 I think) got a kinda HYBRID FWA (1 only in the country) to run Broadband over MMDS frequencies. This was only activated in Limerick (Powernet) and promised widely in Cork and Dublin. As Chorus licences are awarded by County, Chorus should be relieved of this Broadband/MMDS licence in every county except Limerick.......on the 01/03/2003 from what I hear. They should keep their WLL licence or Narrowband.

If they can get pilot signals out there quick is some vague hope for them. Cork and Dublin alone would be most lucrative franchises. It appears that Chorus may make a typically pathetic effort to do sp ..... it will be the crappiest trial on the planet no doubt.

That is the only way that they can keep their licence in Cork and Dublin ....

M

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Muck
'Ballina 80% coverage' by now......its 0% Etain same as before you took over the ODTR

From a mail I received from Chorus on November 4 2002:

We don't have any plans to bring Powernet to Mayo in the near future. Your only current options would be a satellite link...

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Muck
There is a single licence known as Rurtel ISTR. Eircom got that to swap out RF links for something better. It is a sorta low grade WLL and runs at around 2.3Ghz. They may have used this and not the WLL one, must enquire.

My WLL is running in or around 5GHz, if that helps. They're using Airspan AS4000 kit.

spongebob

Originally posted by oscarBravo
From a mail I received from Chorus on November 4 2002:

Once they admit that they will not use the licence...and you have such an admission for Mayo, then you should immediately complain to Comreg (attention Licencing Division) and demand that Chorus be forced to comply in full with their General Licence conditions for "Narrowband FWPMA in Mayo" by the 28/02/03.

Note the docs I linked in the BMW thread a few minutes back..they are fairly short and readable.

It would be a help if Comreg had their backbone stiffened in this matter

M

pork99

Originally posted by Muck


It would be a help if Comreg had their backbone stiffened in this matter

M

I think it will be necessary to cut out some expensive dead-wood first

oscarBravo

Hmm. I've been doing some digging on this before I write to ComReg and Chorus. I read the Chorus license document Muck linked to, and there are some interesting bits in it:

1.1 The following services are deemed to be Required Services for the purposes of Condition 28.1 and shall be provided by the Licensee within 10 months of the Designated Commencement Date.
[...]

• ISDN Basic Rate
• 'On line' Internet Access
• High speed Internet access (up to 8.9Mbps)

The 'On line' Internet Access tarriff is set to £25 for unlimited always-on access.

I can't find Eircom's FWPMA license, but it seems fair to assume that the terms are the same. I have an Eircom FWPMA line, and they've refused to offer me ISDN on it! Can they do that if the terms of the license require them to offer the product?

Oh and Muck, how the hell do you find anything on the ComReg site??!

spongebob

Timeline

1. October 1999, Broadband FWA or FWPMA licences issued Chorus Eircom ESAT
2. June 2000 Narrowband FWA or FWMPA licences issued Chorus Eircom only.
(Mystery ...Chorus get additional (narrowband with up to 8.9Mbit internet condition ...confused me that) spectrum in MMDS band, it may have been then or slightly later) cannot find anything else .
3. October 2002 Comreg remove Chorus Broadband FWA or FWPMA licence in its entirety and vary the Eircom and ESAT ones
4. December 2002 02/121 and 02/123 , Chorus NARROWBAND and Eircom Narrowband licences are restated......a reminder.
5. Any day now, Chorus served notice the game is up for the Narrowband licences.

If you county does not have a Broadband Wireless service from Chorus (only Clare and Limerick do but try getting them to install it) then do as follows

Write to (snip)

---

Mr Wille Fagan
Regulatory Affairs Director
Chorus
Roxborough Road
Limerick

Dear Mr Fagan,

As you are aware. Chorus is obliged to supply a Narrowband wireless product in "insert my county" under the terms of your General Licence from Comreg.

Please tell me when Chorus will comply with this General Licence Proision in "insert my county" . If you are already compliant, please inform me of how I can apply for this product, marketed as 'Powernet'.

I expect a reply to my request by "one week from date of letter".

Your Sincerely

(snip)

---

Off with those letters by registered post people. One per each of the 26 counties

A failure to reply by Willie or a negative reply is ground for a complaint to Comreg on the "one week from date of letter" date.

M

oscarBravo

Grr. I still can't find Eircom's narrowband license. Surely if Chorus were required to provide ISDN BRA over FWPMA, then Eircom would be required to do so as well?

I've been looking for ISDN for yonks[1], and if Eircom are required to offer it on FWPMA then I'm damned well going to get their arse kicked over refusing to give it to me.

[1] Anyone remember me from the public meeting in the Conrad? I'm the one that pulled Soula up on the [non]universal availability of ISDN!

spongebob

I am not sure ISDN will make it into the next USO, its 2 years away from being a universal obligation.....if ever

I suspect that WLL Radio Telephones circuits, ussued under current licencing, should be capable of ISDN speeds if deployed correctly.

Contact Comreg to find out

1. What licences does Eircom have for Narrowband or WLL or Rurtel ...they have 2 or 3.

2. What are the frequencies allocated for each of these, where are the Base Stations/Access Towers for each

3. What are the minimum channel sizes for each of these in Mhz

4. What bitrate is possible in such a channel , full duplex.

PM me

M

yellum

Originally posted by Muck

Off with those letters by registered post people. One per each of the 26 counties

A failure to reply by Willie or a negative reply is ground for a complaint to Comreg on the "one week from date of letter" date.

Done !