Who can teach and who can learn?

Jaicster

I was just wondering if there are any rules about who can teach and who can learn.

I know most people who would teach martial arts would have the highest or a high grade in what ever it is they teach, Also a lot of teachers are registered with a union or league and i'm sure theres some rules/guide lines,
but what kind of rules or veting is done.

I remember going to clases of wado kai and at the same time there was a guy teaching a taekwondo class, and he wasn't qualified at all there was a whole rivalry thing between the two classes about which style was better (we woulda kicked their asses tho )
But i noticied a lot of small kids in his class aswell.

What i'm getting at, is should they let any joe soap with a black belt teach kids how to kill people.
Now people will argue that they will learn disipline and self control, but this guy in perticular didn't seem to be doing any of that, he was more intrested in teaching the spining kicks to the head and so on.

And what about ppl with criminal records, should they be aloud learn, no one ever asked me what i was going to use martial arts for when they were teaching me. After class i could have just gone to some guy i don't like and ****ed him up.
Whos fault would that have been?
Now ppl are gona say that if i hated some1 enough i would have attacked him any way, maybe true but would i have done as much damage?

Martial arts isn't just about punches/kicks and how to win fights. And i think some laws/rules/legislation or something should be brought in, if it isn't already in place.

I'd be intrested to hear you opinions on this, and if you know what kind of rules are in place post em up.

Runfree

How long have you been practising MA???

And I garauntee you if its only been a couple of weeks you will not beat the crap out of anyone. You would find yourself in more trouble then before.

My advise is dont get to cocky

Jaicster

I'm not saying after a few classes you can walk out onto the street and go "i'm mad i can kill anyone that gets in my way"

Its that after a few classes you shouldn't be thinking that, but thats not happening in a lot of places.

Not a lot is being placed on this is what u do if you get ATTACKED or always try and run away if u can.
These cowboy instructors just say heres how u can really hurt some1.

What i'm on about is,
how there doesn't seem to be much veting done of the instructors them selves, places like sports halls get a call from someguy who says oh yeah i'm a black belt in what ever i'll teach a self defence course down there, and they just take this at face value, it appears.
And my other point was about should criminals be aloud learn.

I'm doing MA longer than a few weeks
Plz read all of my post before posting

Runfree

Ah I see where your coming from now.

Sorry about my earlier reply.

Well for the fact that you are a black belt doesn't necessary mean you can teach. If I am right you do need to do a small course before you can teach. As for criminals they are allowed to train martials arts as they are assumed not to be dangerous or they are only on parole. If you are not in prison then there is nothing that anyone can do unless they put in a court order saying you can't do MA.

Musashi

I am a black belt!Doesn't make me an instructor.I had to train to be one!Generally your instructor will recommend you to be an instructor!He knows you at least 5 years!No fools passs thru!We respect our arts and deny fools access. We are your guarantee!
Tell us who is lacking and we'll find out/**** him up!

Runfree

I'll post later on I am busy at the moment but I got all the details for you. Also for insurance aswell

Runfree

Ok I got your answers.

Any Black Belt can Teach (1st Dan Upwards well for Jiu jitsu anyway).

Also if you have a Criminal record they can not be thought MA. The Instructor has a method of finding this out as they are given this facility.

Well this is what I was told so if you want to argue work away but then you will be proving a 1st, 2nd and 6th Dan wrong.

Cheers

RunFree

Ps hope you are all enjoying the board

Dyr

"Any Black Belt can Teach (1st Dan Upwards well for Jiu jitsu anyway)"
eh??

firstly, any broad statement about ju jutsu is more than likely inaccurate, jj is a VERY generic term used by a lot of styles (many of which have no actual roots in historical japanese jj) so generalisations are often pointless. As for being allowed to teach from 1st dan, maybe thats true for most modern western schools that use the name jiu jitsu but most japanese jj schools don't even use the dan ranking system. Those that do generaly do not allow 1st dans to teach. Just to mix things up more, Brazillian jiu jitsu schools are often run by blue or purple belts because achieving belts is a lot more difficult for them. On a broader note how bout all the Martial arts that don't issue balck belts??



I doubt greatly that people with a criminal history are not allowed to train in a martial art, I'd like to see the law that says otherwise. I know a few people with records that do train (and even teach) In most cases, most martial arts instructors have no way of checking someones record, did whoever told you this tell you what the facilitly for checking is?? I'm guessing the civil liberties ppl would love to know . I believe the most an instructor could do is ask the person themselves to get a statement from the gardai to verify that they have no record. I know of one group who do/did this for their teachers to safe guard the juniors from potential exposure to convicted paedophiles. Perhaps an odd instructor has a line with the cops that they can check someone out on the q.t (i know one guy who he said he did, but it was BS) BTW if any this was true there would be legislation to confirm it, I'd suggest having a look for it, I'll happily eat humple pie if you find it


to address the original question on who's entitled to teach: anyone in my experience. Martial arts are not specifically regulated in this country and you break no laws by opening a club. the hall/gym will probably ask you for insurance, and your insurer might ask for a black belt/teaching cert but anyone can get send away to some certificate mill for one. Basically caveat emptor and confirm the facts for yourself.

Frankie Smith

a way of verifying if the instructor is reputable is with the irish martial arts commission. they have a website, but it hasn't been updated in about 4 years. i advise you to ring them and find out. they 're in the phonebook.

Colm_OReilly

Originally posted by Frankie Smith
a way of verifying if the instructor is reputable is with the irish martial arts commission. they have a website, but it hasn't been updated in about 4 years. i advise you to ring them and find out. they 're in the phonebook.

IMAC doesn't approve of MMA. There's a lot of TKD associations to my knowledge that are not affiliated to it. Kenpo governs itself under the International Kenpo Fellowship which was only set up a few years ago.

MMA are currently in the early stages of forming the Irish Mixed Martial Arts Association (IMMAA, pronounced I-double-M-double-A) which will look for recognition by the Sports Council.

As regards teaching children there are currently no resources available with the ISPCC to vet instructors (I tried to get myself vetted). The Irish Sports Council has a code of practice and good policy document that all clubs are advised to adhere to. NGB's are required to have this in practice in order to get funding, but I'm not too sure how well IMAC have implemented it.

As regards teaching children how to kill, most ma techniques are redundant so I don't think that fear is justified.

Nice to see some good activity on this board BTW.

Colm

Cake Fiend

Originally posted by Bambi
to address the original question on who's entitled to teach: anyone in my experience. Martial arts are not specifically regulated in this country and you break no laws by opening a club. the hall/gym will probably ask you for insurance, and your insurer might ask for a black belt/teaching cert but anyone can get send away to some certificate mill for one. Basically caveat emptor and confirm the facts for yourself.

Finally, someone answers the question sensibly! Individual organizations will generally have rules about who is and is not allowed to teach martial arts and put their name to it, but there is nothing that I'm aware of stopping Joe Soap renting out a parish hall or some such and offering martial arts classes. Also, someone's rank doesn't indicate their teaching ability. Just because someone was an international sparring champion or whatever doesn't mean they necessarily have a clue how to impart their knowledge onto others safely and effectively. And vice versa - there are plenty of rugby, boxing, athletics etc coaches out there who were mediocre competitors themselves, but they know how to get the best out of someone with potential.

Any parent who leaves their child in the care of someone (especially someone who's teaching them something potentially dangerous) without checking them out thoroughly first is frighteningly irresponsible IMO. A responsible instructor will have taken special courses in dealing with children. The idea that someone will undoubtably have learnt discipline and self-control just because they've studied a martial art is ridiculous. Everyone takes what they want from a particular art - the art itself doesn't magically change your personality.

As for criminals studying martial arts - it's up to the individual instructor who he/she teaches. Presumably a responsible instructor will refuse to teach someone they suspect will use their knowledge maliciously.

memphis

Interesting topic this.

I've often questioned this myslef. So, what ye guys are saying is that once someone gains a black belt in TKD or whatever form of MA, there is no reason why they can't rent out a hall, get the neecessary insurance cover and start teaching the art.

I'm assuming that insurance coverage is hard to get though?

memphis

Dyr

insurance might be expensive but its not necessarily hard to get and bear in mind you dont actually need insurance to teach MA, but many halls/centres etc will demand it.

btw, Colm a few years back i know IMAC had tried to implement a policy whereby all their instructors had to get a letter from the gardai stating that they had no criminal record, would that be of any use to you?

and anyone who thinks a club being recommended by IMAC or not is a reliable gauge of reputability is somewhat naive. :dunno:

Colm_OReilly

The thing about getting a letter saying you've no prior convictins, IMO, isn't too reassuring. It says nothing about crimes you may have gotten away with, or your likelihood of causing crimes.

What would be great is if you could have the ISPCC give you a 'surprise' visit about once a year or so, question the children and the parents, and make public their findings.

vasch_ro

I think colm has hit the the nail on the head

but basically anyone can set up a martial arts club
anyone, and teach what ever they like and call it whatever they like

eg I am now a grandmaster in Vasch_Ro do
( the way of vasch_ro)

however there has been recently introduced a national coaching qualification taught out of the UL( check out www.nctc.ul.ie) and I would imgaine that this will be become the defacto legal standard over time ( i think this is what happened in the UK )

Is it correct that a person with a criminal conviction should be barred from teaching a martial art ,
when so many people drive Taxi's with criminal convictions
what if the conviction was under the Road Traffic Act for speeding or something ? maybe non payment of TV License should this disbar u from teaching a martial art ?
its not quite so black and white me thinks .

The backround check by the coppers goes into a little more detail than no prior convictions but it is essentially that ,
most good clubs will have a child protection policy on display and their instructors should be trained in first aid and child protection protocol, most will also be affiliated to the IMAC except for MMA clubs as colm pointed out

lastly if clubs taught the five point poison heart strike as in Kill Bill to kids then I would start getting worried

my two cents ( euro cents that is)

paddyc

everyone an teach but not everyone is a good teacher, to teach a hands on art like thai anyone can and people do claim they are teaching it, and then you discover they have no fights at all. I think to teach a MA where fightin (proper fighting) is the main concern you need to have an instructor that has fought. When i say fought I dont mean 1 fight i mean at least 30 (proper) fights

I dont think everyone can learn either some people have a gift for it, some struggel and have to work hard and some will never learn.

paddy