Metallica..

Drunk pirate

I was talking mostly about WhiteWashMan's comments on Pornapster. I can easily get offended and has bad sense of humour.

Giblet

Originally posted by Drunk pirate
Have you seen mudvayne or deftones do solo's recently? More than 5 seconds long?

Suck it:mad:

It could be possible (physically) to fit over 100 notes into 5 seconds. Steve Vai played over 20 in a second before.

Get practicing Ste, I want my 100 note 5 second solo :>

metalish

Coldplay are also meant to be supporting Metallica. Its a 2 day thingy with Metallica on both days then , Limp Bizkit, Deftones, Coldplay, Mudvayne. But i Think thats just a rumour .

But metallica are deffinetly playing here on August 21st

Drunk pirate

I agree with your steve vai theory but the solo's I've heard off modern metal just consist of half notes over a period of 2-3 bars.

Still the piont is they don't do steve vai solo's.

Karl Hungus

You know, I'm here listening to S&M and thinking...

Where could they have gone!?

They had such acompilished works wich lended themselves so easily to orchestration, it's unreal! You can really see the Emperor infuence, and the defining factor in intelligent Black Metal. As apposed to the simplistics of Darkthrone...

But I'm really thinking of how easily Metallica could have gone in that direction, and I feel sorry for them. They could have easily been one of the most intelligent BM bands on the planet, but instead they decided to play to the lowest common denominator...

In fairness, James Hetfield is no Kris Rigg, or Ihsahn, or Simen Hestnæs... But he has a very powerfull vocal, and if he really chalanged himself... God knows!?

Aswell, Metallica's songwirting wasn't ever exactly "Aspera Hiems Symphonia" or "IX Equilibrium" but... They could have seriously made something MORE of themselves...

That is, opposed to the complete dumbing down of their music...

And to be quite honest, anyone who thinks that Metallica have been, in any way, shape or form, moving on or progressing is seriously fooling themselves...

I mean, simply look at who they've influenced, and tell me, is it honestly moving on if they've gone to simpler, catchier songs? Because as far as I'm concerned, progressing would be something what Opeth have done: Eg, going from a rather simple Easrly 90's influenced Melodic-Doom band to something which has carved out an entire niche for itself!

Maybe it's just that I'm rather pissed right now, and I'd probably regret this later, as I usually try and keep out of "Have Metallica Sold Out?" arguements...

But I see it in one light...

There is a band who probably ended their creative streak in '99. (No Leaf Clover could've easily been pinned by an early ('94) Anathema! Another band Metallica had a decent influence on.) They've had a completely unrivalled sucsess in '91 with The Black Album. And very good sucsess with every album/release thereafter.

I think it's fair to say that they were an establishment even before that.

So why try and keep it up with the trand surfing!?

I mean, 1997's "ReLoad" had a song 'Devil's Dance" which had a very predominantly distorted bass-riff throughout the song, which very coincidentally mimicked what Korn were doing at time... The main riff off which went EXACTLY 'Dun-dun... Dun-Dun...' A complete and totaly simplicity. Something that was carried out with the entire album. Another example would be "Better Than You" with it's "Dun-Dun-Dun-DUN!" main melody...

Compare that with the main melody of "Master Of Puppets" and it's as if a different, and consequently less tallented, band was writing the songs.

But anyone trying to imply that this kind of action is progression, if wrong on a fundemantal level.

And if you're going to bother trying to say that it's a matter of speed, you're again, fundementally wrong! Seeing as Metallica have still been able to write pretty good songs, which were still rather brooding; eg "Untill It Sleeps".

But I would put it to you...
Which Metallica albums would you rather listen to?
I'm thinking, that if you HONESTLY ask yourself, as I have, it would be the earlier albums.

Predominantly, it's the older stuff that I would listen to, and I've truly been honest with myself with this. But I really had to think about this at one stage... I remember when Metallica were all for sueing Napster, and I was defending Lars at every step for doing it! But I really had to question myself on this: Was I doing it just to be a fanboy, or was I doing it because there were bands out there being completely ripped off!? And I think this is something a lot of people really SHOULD ask themselves.

But I think it is completely and totaly sad, that a band, who were still a creative force, only a matter of years ago, CHOSE to play to the lowest common denominator. They CHOSE to record with a rapper when rap/metal peaked in popularity. They CHOSE to record a song for a major film when Limp Bizkit (Probably the most popular rock/metal band of the time) did. But what is the saddest thing of all, is the fact that they COULD still be a very prominent creative force! But they decided to take the easy way out. And anyone who is trying to convince themselves otherwise, is wrong.

I see a band who could've easily been anything they wanted to be, but chose not to.


Now, as it turns out, this arguement has indeed come rather full circle. Especially seeing as the likes of WWMan seem to shrug off the idea that Metallica, are indeed, playing to the lowest common denominator, with smart-arse comments like "I dont know much about music outside of my own little catagory" and deny that they might actually NOT be in some kind of progression... But just as WWMan says he's heard the arguement before, I've also heard people unreservedly defend Metallica an uncountable number of times.

I also find it sad, that seemingly intelligent people would waste their time backing up a band, who've clearly no need of backing up, no matter what the arguement is! And that is completely true. So why exactly do people jump out feel the need to jump out and defend Metallica at every moment?

Personally, I find people threatened.
Once Metallice fans, who've turned their back now on the band they thought great!? There's definetly a fear there, that they may lose something of their tastes.

Again, I'd take Emperor as an example... Because their last, and final album before they broke up, "Promethius: The Discipline Of Fire And Demise" was definetly an EXTREMELY experimental album, but to be honest, I didn't like it at all. So why exactly does it have to be a factor with Metallica that they are supposedly progressing? Is this people trying to justify something to themselves that isn't there? Why cant Metallica simply make great songs any more? Why do they suddenly have to be 'Moving on' and 'Expanding their horizons'? Do people really NEED to justify it to themselves so bad?

I mean, HONESTLY, if you really do like Metallica's last offerings; Load & ReLoad, WHY do you have to over-blow their relevancy? Why can you not just say it out that "Hey! These are still great songs!"

I could say that maybe they ARE actually progressing. But I've honestly NEVER seen anyone who hasn't defended them in the same way. And I still, just find it completely sad.

I've never seen WWMan simply say 'Yeah, these are great songs!' without having to push along with the old rubbish about how they're "Progressing and pushing themselves further." When in fact, they are NOT pushing themselves further.

I mean, how exactly DO you push yourself further? I mean, more than on a technical level, how do you do it? It's a very easy thing to say, but to put into practise...? Something completely different altogether! Anyone can push themselves further, or progress on the idea that they can become better musicians, but to be quite honest, that's why I'd never bother listening to Steve Vai, or the likes.

I'm sure it's very easy to say that Metallice have done so, simply by looking at their out-put, and saying "Oh, they've changed style, they must be progressing!" But then you take it in context with the entire genre, and how much Metallica had already moved it ahead... You get to thinking, "No, it's not really moving farward at all!"

And simultaniously ripping off Husker Du, and making a very backwards movement of "Simplistic Song = Better Song." Simple IS NOT moving farward, or progressing in a stretch of the imagination! Whether you want to beleive it or not, it's a fact.

Of course, I could also try and take this in a completely different context. In the way that bringing something more 'Simple' to an expanding genre could bring growth in another direction? But it simply doesn't work! Especially seeing as early Anathema and My Dying Bride have done years this before 'Load' was ever released, and expanded a fantastic sense of beauty within the genre, especially if those of us who are shallow enough not to see the creative progression of the genre, My Dying Bride had a live Violinist from day one, so the esthetic of it alone should impress, especially seeing as they done it years before Metallica ever thought of using an Orchestra, or even messed around with the idea.

So therefor, if you wanted to take it in that context, it's a completely flawed arguement!!! MDB, Paradise Lost, Anathema, had already paced the genre, and given it a more artistic heart.

Again, you REALLY have to ask yourself... Have Metallica done ANYTHING to further the genre since '86? And that is a simple NO, no matter how you look at it! Just looking at the amount of bands they've influenced in their first 10 years, as apposed to their latter 10 years? Can anyone say, with a straight face, that there is even a margin??? I thought not... So therefor, it's a completely non-existant arguement!


Continued...

Karl Hungus

Concluded.


And furthermore...
Lets say hypothetically that Metallica in fact WERE progressing (Both themselves, and the genre)... Are you all really so sad that you have to wait for a band to 'Move on' and 'Broaden themselves' before you yourselves can!? Because seriously, that's the way it sounds, and that's the way a lot of you are acting.

I mean, taking the brunt of WWMan's arguement, it reads like "Metallica have moved on in their taste, and because I still like them, my tastes have moved on also. Amn't I great?" And all he does to defend this view, is blurt out a load of pompous, pretentious, hypocritical comments.

You people, again, REALLY need to ask yourselves... Do you beleive this is true? Do you actually beleive this? And if you do, it's a seriously childish view, and you need a slap in the face. You need to be told to cop the **** on, and wake up! Smell the **** you're shoveling, plain and simple. Because, quite frankly, someone who has to wait for a band to move on, and wait for them to deceide your taste for you, is simply NOT moving on. It's jumping a band-wagon, and it's trend-hoppping. It's in no way, shape or form moving farward, or progressing, so please! Stop fooling yourselves!


So, after all that, does this solve the arguement? At least here, in this specific board? No... I definetly think it will not solve anything. But that's hardly the point, is it?

No, I dont think it is.
What I do think, however...
Or at the very least, I HOPE!

I hope it makes some people REALLY look at themselves, REALLY look at their reasons for defending Metallica so unreservedly, and most importanly, if they do infact REALLY like Metallica's latter out-put, REALLY look at their reasons for liking it.

Because, people, if you cannot look at things so subjectively, you've really no arguement.

Now, I've been where a lot of you people are. I have certainly defended Metallica as much as any of you, in the past. And I'd LOVE to tell you all to grow-up and get on with it! Listen to something different, and ACTUALLY broaden your horizons, rather than waiting for some band to do it for you, like a sad git. But that's really something you've got to figure out for yourselves. And all me telling you to "WAKE! UP! SMELL! THE! COFFEE!" isn't going to do a bit off good, unless YOU actually chose to admit it once and for all.

So please...

Everyone...

Think about it.

Ok?

Seraphina

i might think about it if it didn't involve sooooo much reading....

Oeneus

Write a frickin' book why don't you!

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Drunk pirate

All he said was Metallica are not progressing but trying to fade out yes? Too fooking long...

cournioni

Well said AngelWhore. As I've said before, Metallica has been every metal-head's favourite band in one stage of their life. Now the people who are defending Metallica have to look at why people have suddenly gone off Metallica. I love their music up until '94 when they released Load, where they simply released a lazy album in my view because they thought metal was going down. They only have themselves to blame.

Karl Hungus

I knew I'd regret ranting about that...

But serioously, if you DONT read it, DONT comment on it.

The Reaper

ok ive heard that linkin park and the deftones are playing backup at metallica! plz say it aint so!!!!!

Acidflash

Originally posted by The Reaper
ok ive heard that linkin park and the deftones are playing backup at metallica! plz say it aint so!!!!!

yes it is

http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=670

Drunk pirate

It's only in America.

Keep up with the tread.

/|/)etal)-|ead

So does anyone know if they'll actually be dragging their "Summer Sanitarium" tour (or whatever the fck its called)
over here, or will they be playing with out all those other goddamn asswipes?

Drunk pirate

Guesing by the website it'll only be in America but I don't know-yet-what they will bring over here. I hope it'll be good.

Darkillion

what do you all think the new Metallica album will be like? not being a great fan of theirs i probably wont like it even if it is said to be good, but most of my friends who like metallica arent in high hopes for it. seems they have been in a slump over the past decade or so (not that i would have noticed)

anyway, what do you all think it will be like? only thing i can say is that i think Saint Anger is a crappy name for an album

cournioni

Originally posted by Darkillion
what do you all think the new Metallica album will be like? not being a great fan of theirs i probably wont like it even if it is said to be good, but most of my friends who like metallica arent in high hopes for it. seems they have been in a slump over the past decade or so (not that i would have noticed)

anyway, what do you all think it will be like? only thing i can say is that i think Saint Anger is a crappy name for an album

Expect it to be a rap album.

Darkillion

i dunno, they said it was sounding like some metal band that i never heard of before

nesthead

Nice rant there Angelwhore, well said.

i doubt that tour would come over here, thats three very big bands (big in the context of...bah you know what i mean) at one venue. in Ireland? not gonna happen.

Drunk pirate

I like Metallica I just wouldn't waste a day going to see them. Not heavy enough.

Orlie

or well at least it's rumored anyways... Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit are supporting Metallica!

That's even worse than Puddle of Mud supporting Korn in the RDS last summer!... all the same though what a gig...

I'm sure we'll forget all about the supporting act when Metallica come on stage!

Darkillion

for me POM and KoRm aint much different.

therecklessone

Heard this today, from very reliable source.

Promoter will be Jim Aitken, not MCD.

Gig will be OUTDOORS.

I mentioned the support bands already mentioned here, he grinned. I took that as a "probably".

Orlie

Ok... just heard this today... that Mudvayne and Deftones are side-acts.... dunno if that's true... But Deftones are good!

By the way you deserve to be kicked in the head if you think Korn and Puddle of S**t are similar...

:mad:

OLDYELLAR

it`l be worth going to either way , but jesus it woyuld be so much worse if puddle o crap were the support act , jesus christ i f*kn hate them lalala, gggrrr!

Lemming

If the bands are pants ... here's a plan (assuming you're over 18/have a decent fake photoID/etc)

Go to venue, get mosh-pit tag. Then go drink for most of the day and chat up women/blokes/whichever takes yoru fancy, laugh at the little babygoths and then get yer arse up the front fior when the boys themselves come on stage.

Worked last time in the Point with that direeeeeeee Monster Magnet band. (well, everything except the babygoths bit cause there was a distinct lack of them thankfully)

nesthead

If the bands are pants ... here's a plan (assuming you're over 18/have a decent fake photoID/etc)

Go to venue, get mosh-pit tag. Then go drink for most of the day and chat up women/blokes/whichever takes yoru fancy, laugh at the little babygoths and then get yer arse up the front fior when the boys themselves come on stage.

you obviously didnt read what i posted at the very start of this thread eh lemming?

/|/)etal)-|ead

I'd definitely go if it's mudvayne and deftones supporting, sure, they suck ass big time, but I really don't think I could live with myself if I paid to go see Linkin park and Limp bizkit lol