Photo shops in dublin ?

Wook

I would like to know where i can get some decent Proofings done.
The two shops i know in blancherdstown just do index proofings and are as expensive as full development pictures.

Also , if you know a couple of good, trustworhty stores in town , let me know! Looking for development and shops that sell , second and new lenses.
any recomendation ?!

davej

Ok In my opinion the best places to get prints / proofs are:

Conns Cameras in the hibernian centre off Graton St. (not the one near Golden Disks). I think this is probably the best place to get slides done.

Gunnes on Camden St. They are just across from the Camera Club and this is the shop that a lot of them use. They are especially good for getting B+W proofs.

Camera Exchange on Andrew St. isn't bad either, friendly staff.

My advice would be to pick one and stick with them. When they get to know you they often give you discounts and are generally nicer to you.. A friend of mine gets 1 hour photo for the price of next day in a place at Earlsfort Terrace because he's a regular customer.

Berminghams on the quays are good for 2nd hand lenses. The Camera Exchange on South Georges St. is good too.

davej

DadaKopf

I highly recommend Gunne's and you get an index sheet with your prints anyway.

Samson

When you say proofing, what do you mean exactly, are you talking about proper contact sheets, or those shitty little index print things?
If it's proper contact sheets you're after, you might be better off with a pro. lab, cost would be about €6.00 (inc. VAT) for a 10"x8".
I would recommend:
The Colour Lab, Fumbally Lane.
Primary Colour, Greenville Ave.

DadaKopf

Where are they located?

Samson

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Where are they located?

Where are who located?
If you mean The Colour Lab, they are on Fumbally Lane, which is off New Street (near St. Patricks Cathedral).
Primary Colour are in The White Swan Business Centre, Greenville Ave, D.8 which is between the Grand Canal and The South Circular Road.

Wook

thanks for the tips , what i meant with the index proofings is that i bought a film 400ASA B&W at the store in blancherdstown , and when i returned to have them indexed , they could not because they only do colour...-sigh- this is one odd country :P

The reason i want indexes is that i am just starting the photography and burn a lot of film. I know beforehand 80% of the shots i have taken during a excursion is crap and thats why i need to see them first before i have them developed (cost)

Another question i had , (if you don't mind ) is whats the difference between 'fast' and 'slow' films ?

havok*

Originally posted by Wook
whats the difference between 'fast' and 'slow' films ?

The Film speed indicates how fast it exposes, basically the higher the speed the more it exposes for less light. The ISO Number on the side of the Box (also called an ASA no) gives u the speed of the film.

Example:

200 ISO film would be ideal for a nice sunny day,

400 ISO Is what u should be loading for this time of year

800+ for even darker settings, and so on

Its worth noting u can overclock ur film. i.e Clock a 400 film up to 800 if needed. This must be done b4 u have taken ur first picture on the roll (u cant change speeds in the middle of a roll, it wont develop right if u do)
When ur handing it in, make sure u tell them its overclocked. Or if ur developing it urself i think its an extra 2 and a half mins tank time (u'd have to look it up)

Originally posted by Wook
they could not because they only do colour...-sigh- this is one odd country :P

Yeah, most colour film is done by computer process. Nearly all B&W film must be processed in a dark room, by hand. This is quite skillfull work, therfore Fu<k'in expencive If u dont have access to a dark room, this could cost u an arm and a leg.
However there is a B&W film, cant remember the name i think its called "process 24" or something which can be precessed like a normal colour film (standard computer process) exept it comes out in black and white.
I've never used it myself (i have access to a dark room myself and get to do all my own developing) but i've heard about it.
If u dont have access to a dark room urself it could save u a fortune.

Help this Helps.

Neil/Hav

DadaKopf

It's called Process C-41 (colour process). Ilford makes a version, Kodak makes T-Max and Fuji makes Neopan. They're very good but tell yourn lab to get the filters right, otherwise they might turn out all green or sepia.

Wook

once again , thanks for the prompt reply.
so if i understand correctly
a Iso (ASA) 125 would be the fast film due the exposure rate is quicker then a 400. The reason you should use 400 this time of year is because of lightconditions being less then during summer time. (400 being slower)

now i got this cleared up !
From what i understand is that you can only go to maximum of 400ASA without the tripod and even then you need a steady hand. everything slower 400 ASA and up you should mono or tripod, correct ?

(sorry for all these questions, but those are simple things i lack the knowledge off)

Samson

Originally posted by Wook
once again , thanks for the prompt reply.
so if i understand correctly
a Iso (ASA) 125 would be the fast film due the exposure rate is quicker then a 400. The reason you should use 400 this time of year is because of lightconditions being less then during summer time. (400 being slower)

now i got this cleared up !
From what i understand is that you can only go to maximum of 400ASA without the tripod and even then you need a steady hand. everything slower 400 ASA and up you should mono or tripod, correct ?

(sorry for all these questions, but those are simple things i lack the knowledge off)

No, it's actually the other way around, ISO125 is slower than ISO400.
As for the need for a tripod once you go below a certain film speed, well that really depends on the available light; I have often used Fuji Velvia (ISO50 slide film) handheld on a bright day.

One thing I must point out, that has not been mentioned:
Slower film = finer grain = better quality.

Wook

damn this is confusing !
22 March photography course, (be happy , or afraid cause i might have more questions then :P)

I saw some example of the Velvia and Sensia , and damn they do look nice ! but why would anyone use the film's ASA 500 and above then ?>

davej

I saw some example of the Velvia and Sensia , and damn they do look nice ! but why would anyone use the film's ASA 500 and above then

There are many reasons why you may want to use high speed film. Sports or action photography is the obvious example. Often you will see Fuji neopan 1600 or 800 being used. In low light conditions sometimes it is a necessity as well. Think about it for a minute, the faster the film the less time you need to have the shutter on your camera open for and therefore the less chance there is of blurry images.

Recently I went to Leopardstown Races and shot 3 rolls of B+W ISO 3200 film (2 rolls of ilford delta and 1 of kodak tmax). I chose the high speed for a number of reasons:

1: It was a dull day so slower film would create a lot of blurred images.

2: I was mainly there to photograph people watching the races but I also wanted to get a few shots of the horses racing. High speed film allowed me to freeze horses in mid-jump.

3: The grainy results you get from using such high speed film often give your B+W photos an interesting look.

davej

havok*

Originally posted by Wook

From what i understand is that you can only go to maximum of 400ASA without the tripod and even then you need a steady hand. everything slower 400 ASA and up you should mono or tripod, correct ?

When you need to use a tripod is more relitive of the shutter speed you have the camera set at as apposed to the speed of the film loaded. Once u drop below a shutter speed of 125 its nearly impossible to hold the camera steady enuff to get a sharp image. At certan speeds slow speeds the beating of your heart can be enuff to blur an image.

It really depends on the situation, You may need to drop shutter speed cos u're already at a full open appature and u still hav'nd got enuff light. Or ur doing somthing creative with it (running water at a very slow shutter speed can look very kewl)

If u hav'nd got a tripod with you any flat surface u can rest the camera on is fine.

DadaKopf

However... just to complicate things, sometimes blurring is good .

innisfree

There's hundreds of uses for above 500. You need creativity for photography and you stumbled on your first thinking block First thing that came to my head was concert photographers.

norma

Just as clarification, T-Max or Neopan are not C-41 process films. They are both traditional B&W films. Some of the more popular chromogenic B&W films are Kodak's T-400 CN, Portra Black & White, or Ilford's XP-2. Putting traditional B&W films through a C-41 process will completely remove all the silver, resulting in blank film.

Kell

Originally posted by Samson
I have often used Fuji Velvia (ISO50 slide film) handheld on a bright day.

Hmmmnnn. I have oft been tempted to drop that slow on slide as well. A lot of the National Geographic Photography is done using slide speeds of 36-50 ASA and the quality speaks for itself. I have only used 125 ASA Sensia and with a polariser the effect is awesome. A question on getting a shot processed from slide to print. I was told that there is a drop in the quality of the image but I'd like to know how much of a drop before I rush out and get some enlargements done. Oh, while I am on slide, how much room is there for manouvre on F stops. I was told it's +/- 1 stop only. Is that true?

Heres a question that has baffled me though for a while. Sometime I see articles on particular shots talking about having a fast F setting. Are they referring to wide F setting (2/3 etc) or is it a typo?

Samson

Originally posted by Kell
A question on getting a shot processed from slide to print. I was told that there is a drop in the quality of the image but I'd like to know how much of a drop before I rush out and get some enlargements done.

It depends on where you get your prints done and what process is used.
If you get proper Cibachromes printed (direct reversal colour print paper) by a pro lab you will see no degradation in quality.
Cibachromes are exhibition quality (if printed properly) and archival (ie. will last longer than you or I). They are, however, expensive.

There are other several ways of printing from slide, none of which match Cibachrome quality, for example, prints from internegs (copy slide onto neg. film), inkjet, kodak direct print paper.

Originally posted by Kell
Oh, while I am on slide, how much room is there for manouvre on F stops. I was told it's +/- 1 stop only. Is that true?

Can be less, sometimes as low as 1/3rd stop, because slide film is very contrasty, particularly Velvia.

Originally posted by Kell
Heres a question that has baffled me though for a while. Sometime I see articles on particular shots talking about having a fast F setting. Are they referring to wide F setting (2/3 etc) or is it a typo?

That does not make sense to me. You can have a fast shutter speed or fast film, but apertures are wide or small.
If you use a wider aperture you will be able to use a faster shutter speed as more light will hit the film, but I have never heard of F stops described as fast or slow.

Kell

Originally posted by Samson
If you get proper Cibachromes printed (direct reversal colour print paper) by a pro lab you will see no degradation in quality.

Didn't think the "fast F setting" made sense either.

Do you know of any places that do proper Cibachromes? Someone mentioned earlier that Conns Camera's do fairly good work but I noticed that their pricing from slide to print is €9. To me this is cheap given what I have been quoted elsewhere.

norma

There are, that I know of, eight different ways to get a print from slide. There is some loss of quality no matter which method you choose, but not so much as to make printing a slide you already have and like a waste of time. However, having printed both colour slide and colour negative by hand myself, I have decided not to shoot slide film for anything I want prints from because there is definitely some degradation of the image when you print from slide compared to printing from negative.

The methods I know of for printing slide are:
1 - Fujichrome R-print (direct print from slide): I have done these myself and it is my favourite method of printing slides. The nice thing about working with the R-process is that burning and dodging are virtually seamless compared to C-printing from negative, so you can burn & dodge considerably before you see noticeable dark/light patches or colour shifts. R-printing does, however, increase contrast between the slide and the print, so highlights and shadows where detail is retained on the original are often lost in the print. In scenes where there is a lot of dark or bright areas, e.g. a snow scene, you will likely be disappointed by the loss of detail due to contrast. Up until now, there has been both matte & glossy paper available for this process. However, Fuji are unfortunately phasing out their chrome papers, probably this year, so all that will remain is the super-glossy.
2 - Ilfochrome (formerly Cibachrome) R-print (direct print from slide): Traditionally considered the best method, however it is a very toxic process, so most places have dropped it in favour of the Fujichrome process. There was always just one paper available for this process, a super-glossy. I think there is more detail lost due to contrast with this process than with the Fujichrome.
3 - R-print with mask: This involves sandwiching a B&W negative with the slide in the carrier to reduce contrast. I've only ever seen it done with the Ilfochrome process and, even then, I preferred the straight Fujichrome print over it.
4 - C-print from Internegative: This involves making a negative copy of the slide and printing from that. This makes a less contrasty print that is also less saturated in colour.
5 - R-print from machine instead of enlarger: really does not compare at all to the quality of printing from an enlarger - like comparing a one-hour colour print to a custom print.
6 - Lightjet Print (formerly Evercolor, now uses Fuji Crystal Archive paper): This is a print onto traditional photographic paper from a scanned image using RGB lasers. This is the best quality digital print.
7 - Iris (Giclee) Print: High-quality ink jet print that can be made on many surfaces e.g. canvas, watercolour paper etc. Ink droplets are miniscule, so the image is very sharp.
8 - Ink Jet Print from you home printer: the lowest-quality way of doing it digitally, but probably the most accessible for the majority of people.

As for archival quality, as far as I know, the Ilfochrome lasts about 30 years, the Fujichrome about 25 years, Type C or machine print about 5 years. However, I believe the original methods used for conducting those longevity tests are now being questioned.

Slide latitude is generally considered to be -1.5 stops and + 1 stop. However, those are extremes. For quality images, I would say +/- about 0.5 stops.

About the "fast F-stop." A fast lens is one that has a relatively wide maximum aperture, so I'm assuming that whoever talked about a fast F-stop meant they were shooting wide open at, say, f/2 or wider. Funny way of saying it, though, if that is the case.

Samson

Originally posted by norma
Ilfochrome (formerly Cibachrome) R-print (direct print from slide): Traditionally considered the best method, however it is a very toxic process, so most places have dropped it in favour of the Fujichrome process. There was always just one paper available for this process, a super-glossy. I think there is more detail lost due to contrast with this process than with the Fujichrome.

As for archival quality, as far as I know, the Ilfochrome lasts about 30 years, the Fujichrome about 25 years, Type C or machine print about 5 years. However, I believe the original methods used for conducting those longevity tests are now being questioned.

Whilst cibachrome printing chemicals are very toxic individually, they are self neutralising when mixed together, hence can be disposed of, safely, down the sink (really). I think this point seems to be lost on a lot of people and it is really a shame because I have not seen anything to compare with a well printed cibachrome of a well exposed slide.

I know the very glossy finish does not suit all tastes, but viewed in the correct light cibachromes can be spectacular.
Contrast can be a major problem, but Ilford do have a lower contrast cibachrome paper (plastic) which in my experience is the best to use, as you will lose detail with the high contrast version.

I can't disagree categorically about the archival properties of cibachromes but I am (fairly) sure I heard or read somewhere that 70 to 100 years is typical. I know that a laminate spray is available for coating cibachromes which can increase lifespan to about 200 years.

Originally posted by norma
Ink Jet Print from you home printer: the lowest-quality way of doing it digitally, but probably the most accessible for the majority of people.

I know theoretically inkjet prints should be the lowest quality medium for printing slides, but personally I am of the opinion that a carefully exposed, manipulated and properly printed slide will be far better on a decent inkjet printer than one of those crappy machine prints, which quite frankly I detest.

Originally posted by norma
Slide latitude is generally considered to be -1.5 stops and + 1 stop. However, those are extremes. For quality images, I would say +/- about 0.5 stops.

How true. Bracket, bracket, bracket.

I know I keep referring to cibachromes, when they are properly now ilfochromes (classic), but I'm just used to calling them cibachromes, apologies for any confusion caused.
Something I picked up from the guy who taught me cibachrome printing, because I'm sure they were probably already called ilfochromes when I got into printing them.
Something you might be able to answer Norma, how long have cibachromes actually been known as ilfochromes?

norma

Samson,
Cibachrome changed to Ilfochrome sometime after Ciba-Geigy sold Ilford to International Paper in 1989. I've heard that it was about 1992? I don't think the Ilfochrome name really caught on, though. I know I still call them cibachromes.
About the toxicity, AFAIK it's only the developer & fixer that self-neutralise, but the bleach needs a separate neutraliser. What I've heard is that it was more out of concern for staff working with the Cibachrome chemicals, than for environmental concerns, that most places now use Fujichrome, but that's just hearsay.
I haven't seen their lower-contrast paper. Is there somewhere in Dublin that does this? If so, what are their rates - like for say 11X14 or 16X20 print from 6X7 transparency, do you know? I need to start sourcing out these places before I go back home!
Regarding the digital prints, I agree with you that a well-done digital will very often be of superior quality to a machine print, which I can't stand. Unfortunately, far too many digital prints lack real sharpness or - worse still - are over-sharpened and over-saturated.

Samson

Originally posted by norma
I haven't seen their lower-contrast paper. Is there somewhere in Dublin that does this? If so, what are their rates - like for say 11X14 or 16X20 print from 6X7 transparency, do you know? I need to start sourcing out these places before I go back home!

As far as I am aware, there is nowhere in Dublin that does cibachrome printing commercially. The two labs that I use on a semi-regular basis are Primary Colour and The Colour Lab. Their respective processes for slide printing are LED printing and Kodak reversal paper.
I will ask around at the DCC meeting tonight, if I go, as I know some of the lads use English labs.

Whenever I am in the mood, I do my own cibachrome printing (which is not very often). If it's something you are interested in doing your self, I would recommend RK Photographic in London for paper and chemicals by mail order, great selection and prices are reasonable.
www.thedarkroom.co.uk

Kell

Can I take it for granted that the Fuji centre over in Blackrock would do the Fujichrome R print then? I was talking to the guys in Conns on Saturday and they scan the slide and print from there. Uuuggghh.

Samson

Originally posted by Kell
Can I take it for granted that the Fuji centre over in Blackrock would do the Fujichrome R print then?

Probably not, 'tis not something your normal one hour lab would have facilities to do. They are either scanning and doing an inkjet print or sending them off somewhere.
Ring them and ask how they print from slides.

Originally posted by Kell
I was talking to the guys in Conns on Saturday and they scan the slide and print from there. Uuuggghh.

If they are scanning the slide, it's going to be an inkjet print, most likely.

Samson

Originally posted by norma
I haven't seen their lower-contrast paper.

It's called Ilfochrome CFK, is the same price.
From RK photographic price list (in pounds sterling):

ILFOCHROME CLM 1K
CLASSIC GLOSSY FORMERLY CIBACHROME For prints from colour transparancies.
Ultra high Glossy finish on Polyester base.
20.3x25.4 (10'’x8'’) 25 sheets 30.57
20.3x25.4 (10'’x8'’) 100 sheets 119.39
21x29.7 A4 (89/32"x11/16") 100 sheets 144.40
25.4x30.5 (10'’x12'’) 50 sheets 89.69
30.5x40.6 (12'’x16'’) 10 sheets 30.12
30.5x40.6 (12'’x16'’) 50 sheets 143.34
40.6x50.5 (16'’x20'’) 10 sheets 49.78
40.6x50.5 (16'’x20'’) 50 sheets 238.77
Available in regular and low contrast (CFK)

norma

Samson,
Thank you so much for the information. It's good to know of a recommended supplier for that kind of thing. I had a look at the RK website and was glad to see a nice selection of RA papers & chemicals too, what I mostly use. (I was surprised that there was no 11"X14" paper, just 9.5"x12." That's not a standard size; I wonder how they came up with that?)
By the way, do you get hit with import duty, VAT etc. when you buy stuff from the UK? (Haven't lived at home since the Euro introduction; just wondering if that affects things?)
Thanks again.

Samson

Originally posted by norma
By the way, do you get hit with import duty, VAT etc. when you buy stuff from the UK? (Haven't lived at home since the Euro introduction; just wondering if that affects things?)
Thanks again.

VAT is paid at the rate applicable in the (EU) country of sale, therefore no further taxes/duties are payable.
The prices in the RK photographic pricelist include UK VAT so the only thing you pay on top is shipping.

DadaKopf

Nice to know people here know what they're talking about . Just to let yis know, Film Bank on Baggot St. opposite the Bank of Ireland HQ, is great for getting slides done and, to the best of my knowledge, is the only place in the city centre that will do cross-processing (which is dope).

Could anyone tell me: why is it that by stopping up an exposure by half a stop that the colours become richer? Also (and this is important to me), if I want really vivid colours and a little bit more contrast, should I stop stop up when shooting and get the printers to stop down the enlarger? I'm really confused about all this exposure shee'at.

norma

if I want really vivid colours and a little bit more contrast, should I stop stop up when shooting and get the printers to stop down the enlarger?

I'm assuming we're still talking about shooting transparency film here, in which case you would want to stop down (smaller aperture) to increase colour saturation. 1/2 to 1/3 stop is about right before it starts to get a little dull. It's because, unlike negative film, chrome film reacts better to underexposure. Overexposing just adds too much light, making the colours paler. Neither does it increase contrast - in fact I would say that it has the opposite effect. Contrast is mostly controlled by development, where slightly overdeveloping increases contrast. Most colour chrome films are quite high contrast anyway, I find.

And I don't see the point of adjusting your slide exposure to suit printing: if you want prints, shoot negative film - slide film simply doesn't make as nice a print as a negative. If you're shooting slides, it should be because you want them projected or for commercial use etc. Transmitted light, as in a projected slide, has a very different quality to reflected light, as in a print. When you shoot slides, you should shoot with it in mind that they will be viewed by transmitted light (projector, lightbox etc.). If you do decide to have them printed, the printer will probably print it very slightly lighter in order to compensate for the reflected light. Remember, you can make a good print from a slightly darker slide, but a projected slide that is overexposed will always look terrible.

Unless you're talking about cross-processing slide film? I haven't done that myself, but I've heard of the following approaches to improve image quality:
1 - overexpose by ~2 stops and process normally.
2 - overexpose by ~1 stop and push process +1.
3 - expose normally and push process +2.
Also different films react differently to cross processing. I'd be interested in hearing what you discover if you decide to try it, or have done in the past.

Wook

Slides=dia's ?

norma

Slide (strictly a mounted transparency, I guess) / diapositive / transparency / reversal film / positive / chrome!

Wook

damn then i did buy two slide-films, without me knowing it...when i brought in the filsm at the store they told me:
2 colour
2 black and white and two slides..i still don't have a clue what slides are.
Is it mentioned on the filmroll it self ?

davej

Hey guys,

Would it be possible to stay on thread topic please?

If you want to discuss slide film maybe someone should start a slide film thread?

I'm probably as guilty as anyone else when it comes to this sort of thing, and obviously there is nothing wrong with straying off topic a little. But the direction of this thread has definitely moved away from "Photo Shops in dublin" and more towards a general discussion about everything to do with photography.

Although in the short term it might be handy to go off on all sorts of tangents within the one thread, in the long term it will be damaging because when some newbie comes along and looks for threads on slide film they won't find anything; yet there may well be a wealth of information hidden beyond their reach or scattered all over the place. We don't want the forum to turn into a jumble of disorganised and disassociated tidbits.

davej

norma

Firstly, I'm replying here because the question is here ...

The easy way to tell slide film from negative if you don't know the brand names is that silde film usually includes the word "chrome" somewhere e.g. Fujichrome, Kodachrome etc.

Slide film is the type you don't print: the film is your image, and is usually mounted in a small plastic frame and put in a projector for viewing.

You should shoot the slide film anyway - you'll absolutely love the rich colour saturation, I'm sure. Just bracket your exposures the first time until you get you know your camera and the film. With negative film, if you over- or underexpose a little, it can be corrected at the printing stage. As already mentioned, with slide film, the exposure is your final image, so there are no second chances!

FinoBlad

Sampson [or anyone], do you have directions[or map] how to get to the color lab, fumbally lane?

Samson

Don't have time to draw one of my famous maps, might get a chance later.

From Christchurch head to St. Patricks Cathedral. From there head down New Street a little bit towards the South Circular Road, on the right will be an Opel dealership, directly beside which is Fumbally lane. The Colour Lab are on the right (first door I think).

FinoBlad

that'll do, thanks
[iol.ie are charging to use the map now *shock*]

darraghsherwin

Hi,

I know this is a really old thread but finding info on the ilfochrome process is hard.
I am looking to do my own ilfochrome printing in the next few months and I was hoping to find someone who would share their experience of ilfochrome printing

Thanks
Darragh