Student Apathy

Ste k

Yesterday 8000 students marched onto the streets in protest about the possibility of re-introducing fees for colleges.

Now i'm a student, but unfortunatly I have to study 60 hours a week for a marketing degree, and am in the final year, even so I still would not have gone down. Because for me and my family it doesnt personally effect me cause i'll be out of DIT real soon.

But would making people pay really effect or hurt us that much because lets face it, most people in college can afford to pay. Now I dont want any I cant f~~king pay that but think the amount the we students drink.

There reason for no-fees was to let the underprivalge join in with the upper-classes in trinity but it hasnt worked cause the grant has dropped. catch 22.

Up to 50% of students work part-time or full-time, but one might question why, cause we do ourselves no favours pi$$ing our pocket money away in the cheap or not so cheap dublin pubs.

If we want the government to take us seriously we have to change our image (which is impossible really). I hate been classed as a fun loving student because I dont have fun anymore I stay in college for 12 hours a day.

Really only 8000 out of 250,000 USI memebers showed up for the march, I think some students wouldnt get off there seat in cafe java to protest - "casue there is deadly little number down in BT2's royoish".

Were the most apathetic bunch of people in Ireland, and somehow were going to be the future. Screw you guys I'm going to Aussy land

Thomas from Presence

I don't know where to begin, I agree students are fairly apathetic but before I launch into a tiradewhat is your position on the reintroduction of fees?

joey D

Ste,

You're making a big, big mistake if you think most people can afford fees. When I was in college (1992 - 1996) I had to pay fees for the first two years, then the govt scrapped fees and it was great!

Fees back then were about 1700 pounds a year (for an Arts Degree). I have 3 brothers and two sisters, all of whom went or are in college (there's one left in NUI Galway, hello Mike, if you're reading this go and do some study), if fees were still around today that would not be the case, some of us couldn't have afforded to go to college, i.e. my very selfless parents simply couldn't have remortgaged the house for the umpteenth time.

And what about people who don't have parental support and actually have to make their own way (financially) through college? If you're not a mature student you don't qualify for as many grants/handouts, the reintroduction of fees would simply rule out slef-financing students under 23.

I was quite impressed by the 8,000 turn out, as a fromer S.U. president I reckon that's quite a good number considering there is a lot of apathy. Off to Australia with you if that's what you think Ste, while I respect your viewpoint, I think your negativity is something that's only counter-productive.

The reintroduction of fees should be vehemently opposed and I think yesterday sent out a reasonably good message of intent, well done to those who showed up.

Ste k

my point was that, fee's were abolished to open up university's to everyone, but the same people are still going.

With the general state of the nation now even if fee's were introduced the MAJORITY of the same people would still be going college, so thats why the government thinks why not introduce fee's again.

Also we go around drinking ourselves into oblivion, that doesnt help our cause, and its that cause that I think we can never win because were hypocritical, and apathetic.

My postion on fee's is that, we shouldnt re-introduce them because we wouldnt attract anymore companies to this country ones that do more than just manufacter. I think if we pointed this out to the government we might have more of chance rather than complaining from bar stool's in captain america's and spirit.

See you guys later on its student night tonight, i'm going to get hammered drinking FCUK, Smirnoff ice and the loikes.

Alright Chiefs

thedrowner

well, anyone who's interested in fighting this go to:
www.fightfees.com

ive already had an email back from mary upton, it only takes about 3 minutes max!

o sleep

i would support the reintroduction of fees if i believed that what the minister for education said he'd do, he'd actually impliment. but, come on, it's a fianna fail/pd government, so we know that we have to be careful (to say the least). so, basically, i'd support the reintroduction of fees *for those who can pay* (which, joey d would exclude you, i presume you'd get some sort of grant in my utopian society) and charge the rest. then put any money that the government saves into PROPER grants for working class, but of course the problem isn't just on giving money to the people who really can't afford to go to college. there's books, travel, money to live on etc etc. and of course, putting money into a basic, education system in working class area, from primary level all the way up. but, of course, what with this being ireland and no matter who's in government (be it fianna fail, fine gael, labour whoever) this will never happen, bcos power seems to make people complacent in this country.

as for whether students are the most apathetic group in this country, possibly. but i think this apathy runs throughout our society. even in the farmer's protests and the taxi ones, they only came out in big numbers when their jobs, or rather their income, were in any way affected. if it concerns another group (refugees etc) nobody gives a **** (a striking generalisation, but you get my drift).

so basically, no i don't agree with the re-introduction of fees, but only because the government is going to stiff us in some way.

joey D

interesting point about the grant o sleep, if that is your real name, because when I was in college (I'm beginning to sound like an ould lad) I didn't qualify for a grant, why?
Because both my parents are PAYE (mother = teacher, father = county council clerk) and because the govt knew the incomes of my parents we were deemed illegible for a grant because we had two incomes - utterly ridiculous! Not one of us ever got a grant, despite spiralling costs of going to college, books, etc. as you listed. Grants shouldn't really be for the working class only, because I wouldn't have been working class when I went to college, but from what I've just explained here, and in my previous post, I really don't think I, or my siblings, were any less deserving of a grant. The problem lies, or at least it used to, with the means testing for grants, which was (or still is) totally discriminatory.
There's a lot more to this and I'm definitely of the opinion that the current government are going to embark on a course of cynical and dishonest education cut-backs, and I just wish more people had voted for someone else in the last election, like I did. But I can't remember who for.

o sleep

yeah, i didn't mean to concentrate on the working-class issue too much, although there is a bigger problem there. but that's what i mean: if you can't afford to go to college (and it seems like your parents couldn't) then you should've been assisted to the nth degree. and then, some farmer or CEO of a company gets a big **** off grant and the government wonder why we're so mistrusting of them.

bobzee

I think those who can afford to pay should....simple as that....
I would definitley be in favour of bringing back fees if a proper way of deciding who had to pay was sorted out

but that doesn't seem to be possible.
I studied in Trinity and had to pay fees (btw: Trinity is not full of upper class types....I reckon you'd get more of those in UCD)....but a fair proportion of my classmates were on grants...and a lot of those had lots more money than me or my folks had.......except my parents were PAYE workers....

funktastic

fee's were abolished to open up university's to everyone, but the same people are still going.
Yeah the same people are going but I don't think with there being no fees for 3rd level more working class people are going to go into college.The area to hit effectively to get more people into third level for the government is obviously primary education,more funding for disadvantaged areas to get children there interested in their future.


Also I don't think all students go round drinking themselves into oblivion.Bit of a generalisation there,there are plenty of hardworking students . Yeah there are a lot of people who certainly could afford fees and the government should make people pay fees if their parents earn over a certain high income,which would only be fair.The grant system is also a joke with hardly anyone able to benefit.2 working parents on minimum wage and you aren't applicable?

The government have lashed out on education with senseless cutbacks in a hugely important area.the 69% hike in capitation fees was introduced over the summer ,sly bastards,up to something like$760 I think for me this year.Bit mad to be expected to pay that and possibility of 4 grand next year even though you might be barely above the grant limit.

Ixidor

If the fee's are brought back in to put it simply i will have to drop out... i'll have no choice in the matter. i can just about afford to go at the moment.

nuvolari

i don't think students are more apathetic than any group really. i know a lot of people who simply couldn't go to the protest because of labs etc that they had to attend for continuous asessment. which is a touch ironic since a lot of them won't have to worry bout passing the year cos they won't be able to afford fees anyway....

its nice to think that only those who afford to pay fees should have to, but i don't think anyone is innocent enough to believe that the government could find a proper way to make that work.

and i for one wish i could be a layabout drunken student more, but the 20 hours i have to work a week to live at a halfway decent standard take up a lot of my free time.

Fiii

firstly, let me say that everyone is intitled to their own oppinion, but i also have to say that i totally disagree with the acusation that students are apathetic drunkards who really could afford the fees if we just got up off our bar stools at spirit and applied ourselves. i for one can definately NOT afford to go to college if they re-introduce fees as i work an obscene amount of hours in college already and so cannot hold down a part time job, and as of next year my parents will have 3 children attending college and we are simply not millionaires!
to be perfectly honest, i cannot understand how the government can justifiy giving themselves a heffty increase in pay AND a nice big christmas bonus and spend €4 million, if not more, on a pointless spike in the middle of o'connell street....and then turn around and ask, let me rephrase that - tell the students of the country to pay!!
im just wondering where Mary Mac Aleese is in all this.....isnt she supposed to be running this country??!?obviously not.
and as for our "apathy" - students are one of the main contributers to charities in this country, and we were not only protesting against the fees issue on thursday, but also for equality in the education system in general.
it may not affect you ste k, you'll probably have your DIT degree by the time the fees are introduced and you wont care any more.......but who then is being apathetic?

decob

just a few things,

Originally posted by Ste k
Really only 8000 out of 250,000 USI memebers showed up for the march/

not all the people there were USI members, remember some colleges left USI last year (DCU for one), yet they were present at the march </pedantic point>

Anyway, i for one am against the re-introduction of fee's tho i do believe the gorvernment of certain people within the government have made up their minds to re-introduce them, the increase of fees at the start of the year was the government testing the water.

I would be first interested to hear what dempsey's exact meaning of 'those who can afford it' is. I come from a comfortable background, a double income family, who would in no way be eligible for a grant. My parents had to pay fees for my older sister, and if they had to pay fees for me, there would never have been a problem. During my time in college i was given enough from them to get in and out and feed myself, tho if i wanted a social life - i had to pay for it myself - so i got a part-time job, For my last two years in college my youger brother was also in college, had there been fees; it would have been a bit of a struggle but my parents would have been able to pay it. I was fortunate, i know that, but i also know that there are plenty of families out there with children in college who wouldn't.

If the fees were introduced, the grant system first needs to be overhaulded. Not just for those from single income families, but also for families with 2 incomes and 2+ children attending college.
But, thats not gonna solve all the problems, there are many people out there, that once they hit 18, their parents no longer financially support them. Should their grant application based on their parents income.. no..

o sleep

Originally posted by Ixidor
If the fee's are brought back in to put it simply i will have to drop out... i'll have no choice in the matter. i can just about afford to go at the moment.

Won't it be phased in? what i mean is, if you're already going to college (as of this year) then next year you won't have to pay the full fees, only first years (not much consolation for first years of course). bcos if there was a sudden increase then, well actually it's not really surprising.

On a selfish note, thank god i'm in my final year.

polarbelly

personally, just like the posters the other day said i think "education is a right", we shouldnt have to pay for it

thats just me
www.fightfees.com

Shorty

www.freeeducation.cjb.net

DerekD Goldfish

I was there and altough the turnout was relativly small im sure if(unfortunally more like when) the goverment say for definate.

They are introducing fees there will be a much bigger number marching.

Not all students are drunks I dont go out that often because I cant afford it.

Im from a single parent family but dont quallifty for a grant. If the fees were introduced I wwould have no choice but to take out a loan.

Im in third year so it would be for only a year but my sister is in 5th year and if she decided to go to college it would cost between (10,000-16,000) depending on what fees they introduce.

Surly it is the reponsibility of a socity to educate its people.

thedrowner

yeah...im one of the lucky ones who's parents woul be able to afford to put me through college (can i also add a 'thank God im going into my final year) but i remember when the ' free fees' started increasing last year, a couple of my friends were in a major crisis. my friend wasn;t eligible for a grant, because her mother(or father, cant remember) earned x amount of money, but it's a broken up family and she herself is the one who has to pay her fees, she had her summer ruined coz she had to work up the money to pay it off, and pay for the year. im in a course that is very time demanding for some people, and most of them just cant get jobs that are going to pander to their hours-there are only a fewlucky people who bag jobs like that.

i work nights myself coz its the only time i can earn up a bit of money but it has a knockon affect in that im wrecked for college some of the time. i live at home and dont pay rent (though i pay for stuff like shopping, travel fares, etc) and i cant see how people manage who live away from home, it must be a pain in the arse for them!

rach

well, im in leaving cert, and i know a hell of a lot of people whos futures are riding on free fees.i know people that didnt get offered their first 4 choices last year on the cao, but took a course they were unhappy with because they were so worried that if they waited til this year to repeat adn get the course they wanted, that the fees would be re-introduced, and it wouldnt matter a damn what points they got because they wouldnt be able to afford it.
about the grants,three years ago three of my siblings were in universities/ITs.all living away from home,my parents arent exactly rich, they dont have a lot of money, and we still werent eligible for a grant-not a penny, because apparently we're too affluent.all 5 of my brothers and sisters have worked their way through college, not for drink money, but for the basics-books,food,buses...every summer since we have been 15, my brothers and sisters have worked and saved money to see us through the school year, thats not meant to be a sob story, but it pisses me off to see people who have always attended expensive private schools, getting the same treatment as us,when they can very obviously afford to pay fees.
especially when you think of all the costs-i paid my big brothers deposit and one weeks rent for his dump of a house in dublin this year-it cost me €1000. a ****ing grand!!thats NOT including other living costs like food,electricity,heating...
i know for certain that next year, if fees are re-introduced, i wont be going to college,i simply wont be able to afford it.i definitely wont be eligible for a grant, regardless of the fact that my mum will have a reduced income cos shes retired due to health reasons.
if the government wants to attract business to this country, it needs to prove it has a skilled and qualified workforce.reintroducing fees would diminish the quality of our workforce adn there fore **** up our economy even more.but then again, thats what fianna fail are good at.